Newdawn, Press '1' for your 2 week notice...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Then who the hell did u attack before u attacked eX? In random galraids u targetted them, I'm not talking about hitting them with full power, even galraids will get you retalled.

LOL m8. It's called RANDOM galraids for a reason. Exi also did it, ND did it 90% of the round, 1up did it at the start aswell ... Angels also did it.

Every alliance starts the few week(s) hitting random galaxies. Why would that mean Angels made enemies in the subtop and Exi wouldn't? Exi did exactly the same, I don't really see your point m8.

[HK]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

LOL m8. It's called RANDOM galraids for a reason. Exi also did it, ND did it 90% of the round, 1up did it at the start aswell ... Angels also did it.

Every alliance starts the few week(s) hitting random galaxies. Why would that mean Angels made enemies in the subtop and Exi wouldn't? Exi did exactly the same, I don't really see your point m8.

We started to concentrate on 1up rather quickly. You started to hit us in mid-round, remember?

[Alki]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

We started to concentrate on 1up rather quickly. You started to hit us in mid-round, remember?

you are right partially, yes i did pick top gals for the first weeks, after about 2 weeks we started hitting exi more and more, then launched solely at you, which resulted in you visiting the next day iirc.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

We started to concentrate on 1up rather quickly. You started to hit us in mid-round, remember?

No, you're wrong. We hit Exi in the 2nd week (end of 2nd week) of the round (Like Alki said). Starting to hit you midround is a very wrong statement m8.

[alch]

Originally Posted by buddies

Aye right, Angels hit subh at the time because you knew we did have the capacity to hit yous straight away.

Edit Did= didn't

I dont really think we really put some thinking into "When will we hit Subh? Are they able to strike back?". No mean to disrespect you, but you were never a threath to the top alliances rankings, you were mainly the alliance that were assisting exilition with many other alliances, and it was obvious that when we decided to stop targetting exilition, we had few choices:
1) Go back to plain Galaxy raids.
2) Come and visit some of the smaller alliances who gained our roids for free.

I think that when you hit an alliance several time aiding another alliance, you should expect to get a visit from this said alliance sometimes. And we indeed targeted you to get our roids back and to state that no alliance will go unpunished by hitting Angels.

In no case we really though about what are your capabilities, you were just "stuck" on our path and we paid you a visit, i think its the most natural. Next time, if you dont want a top alliance come and steal your roids, then dont hit it.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by bwtmc

Consider a playerbase of a thousand or so active players puts time into a game. A game in which there are fifteen membership groups. The aim of each group is to be successful, successful meaning that they want to build to become stronger, or for the top five that they want to win. To become stronger an alliance has to recruit a memberbase and it has to develop internally. The playerbase is completely fluid in transition. Its only restriction is a general feeling that switching allegiance is bad because it makes the groups meaningless. <- The same groups half the people on this forum put so much time into in order that they can achieve their aims.

I disagree completely. If an alliance fails to conform to a player's standards, it's his perogative to leave. Has been ever since round 1. From high profile, large splinter groups to single members leaving because they don't feel their alliance can support them. This isn't the national army, you don't betray your country by playing with an other team. Nor do you betray the team you left, except perhaps in the eyes of that team.

Would it become a moral issue if this practice was used extensively?

No.

Isn't the whole point of that rule to limit the number of players that contribute to any one alliance at a given time, and isn't that the intent of taking in players that have benefited from the defence/attack support/political stability/scans (and so on) of other alliances at the very end?

I think you're mixing up two different things here. I do advocate a different scoring system to more accurately reflect a team's accomplishments, but the alliance limit isn't in place solely to limit the amount of planets that may contribute to an alliance's score.

And again, if the alliance that supported the planet for the first part of the round is not satisfactory, why should a player stay there and not move on? If ND is keeping untagged members around that are still contributing (sending def, doing scans etc), I completely agree that this violates the (new) EULA and is bad/wrong/grounds for deletion etc. But if they're merely inflating their score with temporary members, I laugh at their stupidity and yours for getting so hung up on it.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

We started to concentrate on 1up rather quickly. You started to hit us in mid-round, remember?

I think there's a clear motivational difference here though. It was directly in Angels' favor to twat EXilition. If they didn't, they stood no chance of winning. But with the exception of LCH, none of EX's 'friends' stood even a chance of passing Angels. I'm not going to pass judgement on whether this is right or wrong though, it is up to an alliance to choose which path they think is most beneficial.

I believe that the alliances in question would have been better off playing their own game (perhaps as a block, but not one including EXilition), but that doesn't make it true. There can be no doubt that there has been XP to gain by hitting Angels, ND (especially) and (to an extent) 1up.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Banned

This isn't the national army, you don't betray your country by playing with an other team. Nor do you betray the team you left, except perhaps in the eyes of that team.

Mind you, if you leave midround then I'd consider this betrayal. Why (and I speak from Angels point of view)? When we recruit a member we make a contract for the entire round. Every single Angel knows this, every single Angel knows that if he leaves to another alliance, for I don't care what reason, that it will be considered a violation and will be dealt with.

I don't know how other alliances handle their recruitment though but every Angel knows what he signs up for, before the round starts.

[HK]

Originally Posted by Banned

I think there's a clear motivational difference here though. It was directly in Angels' favor to twat EXilition. If they didn't, they stood no chance of winning. But with the exception of LCH, none of EX's 'friends' stood even a chance of passing Angels..

Then why did 1up hit us almost half the round, because you fought us for the top1 spot? No, it was because of REVENGE! That's what really amazed me also, instead of fighting for their positions in the top5 certain alliances seem to have given up and only concentrated on retalling the alliances which hit them with full power. This situation is a bit different than in round13 when the 1up block thought that by hitting ToT and LCH they would weaken eXilition, didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Banned

There can be no doubt that there has been XP to gain by hitting Angels, ND (especially) and (to an extent) 1up.

Indeed, everyone have overlooked this point, good that you brought it out now. Hitting an alliance with more roids and value will give your alliance a nicer scoreboost than attacking lower ranked alliance.

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by alch

I dont really think we really put some thinking into "When will we hit Subh? Are they able to strike back?". No mean to disrespect you, but you were never a threath to the top alliances rankings, you were mainly the alliance that were assisting exilition with many other alliances, and it was obvious that when we decided to stop targetting exilition, we had few choices:
1) Go back to plain Galaxy raids.
2) Come and visit some of the smaller alliances who gained our roids for free.

I think that when you hit an alliance several time aiding another alliance, you should expect to get a visit from this said alliance sometimes. And we indeed targeted you to get our roids back and to state that no alliance will go unpunished by hitting Angels.

In no case we really though about what are your capabilities, you were just "stuck" on our path and we paid you a visit, i think its the most natural. Next time, if you dont want a top alliance come and steal your roids, then dont hit it.

None taken, As I seem to keep on saying the HC worked within the allys limits/capabilities ie Making the most of our tactical abilities ...However it seems that some ppl seem to keep on the order on who attacks who first. Subh does gal raids, we ask any ally we are NAPed with do yous have any members in xx:xx gal miss them out and the rest is fair game. If you take that as an act of war fair dues. However we didnt do specific TP on other allys till we were targeted on an allywide basis.

Something that seems to missed out.

[alch]

Originally Posted by buddies

None taken, As I seem to keep on saying the HC worked within the allys limits/capabilities ie Making the most of our tactical abilities ...However it seems that some ppl seem to keep on the order on who attacks who first. Subh does gal raids, we ask any ally we are NAPed with do yous have any members in xx:xx gal miss them out and the rest is fair game. If you take that as an act of war fair dues. However we didnt do specific TP on other allys till we were targeted on an allywide basis.

Something that seems to missed out.

you choosed to ignore certain members in certain galaxies, leaving the angels to be hit, when you do this that mean you higher the number of angels you are hitting versus the other random members, when we do our calculations at end of nights. we see who hit us the most and then ranks the other alliances with the number of incomings we received.

The fact is you guys targeted us in a long period and we didnt hit you back for a while, when it turned out that we didnt hit exilition anymore, we worked down the list of hostiles and saw who was the best potential target for us.

nothing special or fancy, was just something which i can call natural in warfare.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Then why did 1up hit us almost half the round, because you fought us for the top1 spot?

You say, 'you', but I think I should make it clear I haven't been affiliated with 1up since I left in r13, nor do I plan to ever return.

No, it was because of REVENGE!

Since I'm not psychic, I can't say for certain what motivated 1up HC to hit you. They'll have to answer for that, but knowing them I'm sure they have some good or at least enlightening answers. However, I can speculate that the actual motivation was to continue to hit EX until either EX was broken (in which case 1up had a realistic outsider's shot at #1) or until EX had put themselves in a position in which 1up had no chance at all to catch them.

That's what really amazed me also, instead of fighting for their positions in the top5 certain alliances seem to have given up and only concentrated on retalling the alliances which hit them with full power. This situation is a bit different than in round13 when the 1up block thought that by hitting ToT and LCH they would weaken eXilition, didn't happen.

Funny, by the end of the round I was bitching that we hadn't hit ToT and LCH enough, not the other way around. 1up continued to hit EX in a period when the picking were so lean it was disgusting. Not only that, but 1up often took last pick of targets, so we ended up with a lot of high value Xan with 100 roids.

Indeed, everyone have overlooked this point, good that you brought it out now. Hitting an alliance with more roids and value will give your alliance a nicer scoreboost than attacking lower ranked alliance.

Keeping in mind of course, that they could gain this extra XP by hitting EX as well

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by alch

you choosed to ignore certain members in certain galaxies, leaving the angels to be hit, when you do this that mean you higher the number of angels you are hitting versus the other random members, when we do our calculations at end of nights. we see who hit us the most and then ranks the other alliances with the number of incomings we received..

When we done gal raids we looked for gals with too many roids. did our scans (planet, surface, and unit scans) Planned our strategy, If we thought that some planets needed a good few fakes, discuised fleets or counter def we did so. we dont launch our fleet on a "hope and prayer".

Why would say a 2mill value planet be holding 2.5k of roids...he/she obviously has the back up from ally. So you take that into consideration.

Yes we did target angels for a bit.
But the point is Angels/ND/TGV (not as a block thats fairly obvious) did target Subh on an ally wide basis first.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Quite strong words for a person who has been in 4 different alliances in 3 rounds and who has never so far even experienced the responsabilities or anything involving being HC and actually have to make though calls etc.

Well its the truth bro'. Deny it and thou shalt be damned for all eternity.

[HK]

Originally Posted by Banned

You say, 'you', but I think I should make it clear I haven't been affiliated with 1up since I left in r13, nor do I plan to ever return.

Sorry, that was a typo, I of course meant 1up, not you.

Originally Posted by Banned

Since I'm not psychic, I can't say for certain what motivated 1up HC to hit you. They'll have to answer for that, but knowing them I'm sure they have some good or at least enlightening answers. However, I can speculate that the actual motivation was to continue to hit EX until either EX was broken (in which case 1up had a realistic outsider's shot at #1) or until EX had put themselves in a position in which 1up had no chance at all to catch them.

Aren't you a bit overestimating 1up's military power here? Or underestimating eX's. 1up isn't what it once was and round13 and round15 have proven that to me. Sorry, if I'm egotrippin' here, but by military capacity I would rank this round's alliances like that: 1. eX 2. Angels 3. 1up 4. ND. In the beginning of the round 1up's and Angels positions were switched, but now it seems that 1up's round14 victory infront of alliances like Reunion, Newdawn, ToF (lol) and xVx (lol) was rather overrated.

Originally Posted by Banned

Funny, by the end of the round I was bitching that we hadn't hit ToT and LCH enough, not the other way around. 1up continued to hit EX in a period when the picking were so lean it was disgusting. Not only that, but 1up often took last pick of targets, so we ended up with a lot of high value Xan with 100 roids.

Funny, you twatted them because you couldn't twat us as we were too big and most targets needed 2-3 average 1ups on one wave. That's how I remember that round, sorry if my memories are clouded and biased. Yes, you continued to hit us but the fact that your block also hit LCH and ToT made sure that eX would win the round.

Originally Posted by Banned

Keeping in mind of course, that they could gain this extra XP by hitting EX as well

As some all knowing PA player said on AD that eX just has a lot of XP and no value at all. On top of that we had and still have not many roids so hitting some other alliance would've been wiser. Although yes, they could have gained that XP from us but yet again, this reason is hardly the main one (the main ones i've mentioned before) as it has been overlooked by most alliances in this round.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Chika

Well its the truth bro'. Deny it and thou shalt be damned for all eternity.

Hehe, I'm sorry but I do not accept your version of the truth ...

[Knight Theamion]

What is this 'we' you talk about Kjeldoran, when you do **** all within Angels? Don't you mean, alch, Irvine and Alki?

[Wandows]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Aren't you a bit overestimating 1up's military power here? Or underestimating eX's. 1up isn't what it once was and round13 and round15 have proven that to me. Sorry, if I'm egotrippin' here, but by military capacity I would rank this round's alliances like that: 1. eX 2. Angels 3. 1up 4. ND. In the beginning of the round 1up's and Angels positions were switched, but now it seems that 1up's round14 victory infront of alliances like Reunion, Newdawn, ToF (lol) and xVx (lol) was rather overrated..

Although you might be right about 1ups military strength compared to yours at this point.. i so far haven't seen eXi proving that they are capable of winning a round by themselves, where as 1up did on several occassions. eXI's true military power therefor can never have been tested fully nor shown fully as they simply never played on their own and always had a few lapdogs assisting them.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Aren't you a bit overestimating 1up's military power here? Or underestimating eX's. 1up isn't what it once was and round13 and round15 have proven that to me. Sorry, if I'm egotrippin' here, but by military capacity I would rank this round's alliances like that: 1. eX 2. Angels 3. 1up 4. ND. In the beginning of the round 1up's and Angels positions were switched, but now it seems that 1up's round14 victory infront of alliances like Reunion, Newdawn, ToF (lol) and xVx (lol) was rather overrated.

1up's military ability, and 1up's ability to beat Angels and ND aren't necessarily the same. And you forgot 1up's actual opponent last round, LCH.

Funny, you twatted them because you couldn't twat us as we were too big and most targets needed 2-3 average 1ups on one wave. That's how I remember that round, sorry if my memories are clouded and biased. Yes, you continued to hit us but the fact that your block also hit LCH and ToT made sure that eX would win the round.

Until I stopped attacking I generally hit EXilition, but there was a (rather long, 3-4 weeks iirc) period when the list of legal targets for solo raids was only EXilition planets. There were galaxy(ish) raids during this period, but always with a focus on EX targets and planets that defended them ingal (by default all non-EX were treated as planet NAPs until they violated the terms). What was done after we stopped hitting EX, I don't care much about, it was the last 2-3 weeks and there was little left to play for.

As some all knowing PA player said on AD

lol

that eX just has a lot of XP and no value at all.

That's wrong though. Some people might believe you don't have any value, but looking at your 3 fattest players, I see only one in the top100 on xp. Mind you my intel isn't all that great.

On top of that we had and still have not many roids so hitting some other alliance would've been wiser. Although yes, they could have gained that XP from us but yet again, this reason is hardly the main one (the main ones i've mentioned before) as it has been overlooked by most alliances in this round.

I wasn't saying they should attack EX now though, I was just pointing out that there were times when hitting EXilition was an equally good move (going purely on XP) to hitting other alliances.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

What is this 'we' you talk about Kjeldoran, when you do **** all within Angels? Don't you mean, alch, Irvine and Alki?

Hehe, whatever makes you happy ...

Maybe you should ask them 3 what I do in Angels. If I'd be doing **** all, I'd have been kicked weeks ago. It's ok that you dislike me, but try to attack/defend atleast once every 2 weeks before you comment on the performances of other pple ...

[HK]

Originally Posted by Banned

That's wrong though. Some people might believe you don't have any value, but looking at your 3 fattest players, I see only one in the top100 on xp. Mind you my intel isn't all that great.

Yeah, it's wrong, I also laughed about that but never really cared to check older topics to find who that retard was who posted it.

Originally Posted by Banned

I wasn't saying they should attack EX now though, I was just pointing out that there were times when hitting EXilition was an equally good move (going purely on XP) to hitting other alliances.

Yeah, well Angels had more roids so they would've been the best, then ND, then us and then 1up. That would've been like 3-4 days ago. Now its Angels, eX, ND/1up, 1up/ND. (I might be wrong, please check value/roid ratios of those alliances in some arbiter)

[Gate]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Yeah, it's wrong, I also laughed about that but never really cared to check older topics to find who that retard was who posted it.

It was me. I wasn't saying eXil are all low on value; you have some high value planets, there were 3 notable instances where they were either almost impossible to scan, or were in a galaxy which provided huge amounts of defence and were therefore not worth trying to roid after we'd already taken two ticks off them.

I posted it after I saw NDer after NDer hit by frigate fleets by eXil members packing something like 30k vsh, 10k ghost, 12k tzens and 2k sabres. My attack partner, another NDer and myself was hit by wave after wave of these planets. Looking through my history, I see some examples.

10 of the planets* which hit me in one particular night now have a total of 50.5 million score as of this moment, but 17.7 million value. That's a ratio of nearly 2 points in XP for every point in value. Meanwhile, I'm hanging around the ratio of just over 1 point in XP per 2.5 points in value.

Maybe you should consider the facts before insulting other people.


*you may pm me for coords, though I doubt you will since it only helps to make you look like an idiot.

[Buddah]

Originally Posted by Wandows

Although you might be right about 1ups military strength compared to yours at this point.. i so far haven't seen eXi proving that they are capable of winning a round by themselves, where as 1up did on several occassions. eXI's true military power therefor can never have been tested fully nor shown fully as they simply never played on their own and always had a few lapdogs assisting them.

1up didnt really ever do that and r13 exi block was smaller than 1up block. and also 1up mostly won cause of planet naps ^^

[HK]

Originally Posted by Gate

It was me

Ah, now I remember. Heres a queston for you: which retard calls the members of his own alliance noobs? Oh wait ..

But to the topic: u can have this discussion with Banned as I hardly care, already had my laugh, maybe his 'lol' comment wasn't enough for him :)

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Hehe, whatever makes you happy ...

Maybe you should ask them 3 what I do in Angels. If I'd be doing **** all, I'd have been kicked weeks ago. It's ok that you dislike me, but try to attack/defend atleast once every 2 weeks before you comment on the performances of other pple ...

My own performance does not make my statements more or less true.


In other words, **** off from the boards and start becoming functional within your own alliance and do not use it as your private defwhore army, something to stroke your own e-penis with while the real work is being done by others.
Also, getting me kicked while I defend when I can and I attack when I can is funny too. Are we being a little bit grudgemental?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

My own performance does not make my statements more or less true.


In other words, **** off from the boards and start becoming functional within your own alliance and do not use it as your private defwhore army, something to stroke your own e-penis with while the real work is being done by others.
Also, getting me kicked while I defend when I can and I attack when I can is funny too. Are we being a little bit grudgemental?

You're kicked because you're inactive, haven't attacked or defended in weeks and because we basicly has a better new member.

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You're kicked because you're inactive, haven't attacked or defended in weeks and because we basicly has a better new member.

So the moral of the story is that An angel is for life and not just for christmas then.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

Ah, now I remember. Heres a queston for you: which retard calls the members of his own alliance noobs? Oh wait ..

But to the topic: u can have this discussion with Banned as I hardly care, already had my laugh, maybe his 'lol' comment wasn't enough for him

So, you're not going to argue the point over why you initially called me a retard, so I assume you realise you were spewing shit.

As for calling members of an alliance 'noobs', I believe I have used the term in reference to members who quit PA after a few roid losses, but if you consider that particularly offensive or terrible, maybe you should also call prominent members within your own alliance retards for doing exactly the same thing earlier in the round.

Though I do appreciate you refraining from posting in this topic, you're embarrassing an alliance whom I otherwise respect for having worked their ass off all round without the need to act insulting. :/

[selenyum]

Alliances - Top 30
Rank Change Name Asteroids Members AVG Score Score
1 eXilition 69744 80 4,062,030 324,962,459
2 NewDawn 45544 79 3,964,952 313,231,230
3 Angels 88016 80 3,623,627 289,890,205
4 LCH 84663 77 3,609,971 277,967,843
5 1up 61873 80 3,067,869 245,429,553

againt the facts there are no excuse, exilition is on the #1...

[Geezer77]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You base this on the assumption that Angels did hit other alliances. We hit Exi and ND. We then hit Subh, HR and ROCK simply because they hit us (with exi).

We started the war with Exi, so it'd be fair that they strike back. We however never targetting HR, ROCK or Subh until we were fed up with them joining Exi in hitting us.

Your facts are wrong m8, we did not hit any of the lower ranked alliances (lower then top3), not until they hit us.

I beg to differ on your overall claims, Angels are in no way innocent. Your tactics changed numerous times during the round for obvious reasons. At the start you were targetting no one in particular, but it's a good bet those you did target were more likely to be allinaces like those you mentioned over 1up/Exi/ND. Of course i am purely guessing this at the moment.

But then again your other accusation that HR, ROCK and SubH were working directly with Exi on targetting Angels is also pure guess work. I can go off the Exi def bot quite easily and lay claim to a number of alliances supporting Angels in attacks, these are not just one off occasions either. Your arguments are based on limited intel and therefore i find hard to take your argument with little more than a pinch of salt.

[Biggin]

Originally Posted by Chika

Lolly. I thought the info on the entire exil thingy was out already.

ya, it was. i just saw another one of your troll posts and wanted to be as childish as possible... it's just because i don't like you, and i needed to stoop down a bit to post here.

Originally Posted by Chika

Seems it took a thread for you to crawl out of your hole.

no, just a few beers

Originally Posted by Chika

Exil is getting ****ted dear sir. Your playing a different game.

which game was this?

Originally Posted by Chika

Exil will not win. Bet your life.

good thing i'm not a betting man... care to retract yours?

Originally Posted by Chika

People like you only post when they think they know something. You don't know anything (quotable)

okay, you got me, i know nothing. (but nothing you say is ever quotable) there's a tense desperation in your writing style.

Originally Posted by Chika

Noob. And your planet sucks.

the only 2 correct statements of your post.

sorry i took so long to reply. i had to ask someone how to use the internet again... it's REALLY scary.

i was just kidding by the way... don't take yourself so seriously.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by Biggin

which game was this?
good thing i'm not a betting man... care to retract yours?

Lucky you didn't take the bet because I would be dead.
Accordingly, I will never bet on Newdawn again.

p.s You took so long because in that timeframe, there was nothing you could say. Now that Exil is winning, you have room to talk. On AD, liars are exposed quite quickly.

p.s.s- When you told me exil was the best alliance before round, I thought you were an idiot. I must apoligize for this, because you were right.

[pig]

Originally Posted by selenyum

Alliances - Top 30
Rank Change Name Asteroids Members AVG Score Score
1 eXilition 69744 80 4,062,030 324,962,459
2 NewDawn 45544 79 3,964,952 313,231,230
3 Angels 88016 80 3,623,627 289,890,205
4 LCH 84663 77 3,609,971 277,967,843
5 1up 61873 80 3,067,869 245,429,553

againt the facts there are no excuse, exilition is on the #1...

Genius! where did you get that from? I never knew that.

[alch]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

What is this 'we' you talk about Kjeldoran, when you do **** all within Angels? Don't you mean, alch, Irvine and Alki?

Off topic and took me a while to reply to this thread, but actually theamion you are a little bit offside on this remark, every HC in Angels has a function and while some have very active function during round and have lot of fame for doing them ( militaries HC usually or political one) some are doing the background and the dirty work that no one see.

kjeldoran was the one to put up together the whole alliance pre round and to interview some of the new recruits and organize some of the bits here and there with myself, but as i stated this many times, these are internal matters and they will remain and discussed internally.

[alch]

Originally Posted by Geezer77

I beg to differ on your overall claims, Angels are in no way innocent. Your tactics changed numerous times during the round for obvious reasons. At the start you were targetting no one in particular, but it's a good bet those you did target were more likely to be allinaces like those you mentioned over 1up/Exi/ND. Of course i am purely guessing this at the moment.

But then again your other accusation that HR, ROCK and SubH were working directly with Exi on targetting Angels is also pure guess work. I can go off the Exi def bot quite easily and lay claim to a number of alliances supporting Angels in attacks, these are not just one off occasions either. Your arguments are based on limited intel and therefore i find hard to take your argument with little more than a pinch of salt.

Then you guys must have been extremely lucky to have these kind of coordinations? And i can assure you that my intel and my understanding isnt limited as you think.
But i do have one more question. Does it really matter? your alliance won this round, aight?