Say hello to FAnG`s new friend!

[Helix]

Originally Posted by Rumad

I am gald yoru ok mate.

I can see yu POV and I dn ey there is a argumnet for exclusion.

The only problem i see is hw do you "exclude" someone from an annonymous community?

I still think forgiving and monitoring is better than excluding and riving them underground.

whats the saying "better the devil you know?"

also I would still lie to think a second chance would be given. If they abuse it again you have grouds for exlusion, but I still don't se how.

Rumad, I think you should refrain from posting on these boards whilst you are drunk mmmkay?

And if you are not drunk, I am surprised how someone can play a game that requires so much typing and chatting in IRC, and still be able to type and spell so horribly.

Secondly, I know it wont change your point of view, as you have made it perfectly clear that you are unwilling to back down from your soap box. Yes people do deserve second chances, but this would be TP's 3rd or 4th chance. He seems to go from alliance to alliance, getting kicked from them as they find out he is either a cheater / poor overall person.

As for you comparing this to real life, and pleading that this is only a game, and punishment should not be so severe. Being denied admission into any alliance in planetarion is hardly severe punishment. In fact, it is probably less than what he deserves. Kevin Mitnick was banned from computers as a whole for 10 years for his hacking crimes, why would banning TP from PA for a few rounds be high punishment. He has done very malicious acts in a game, which have hurt others. Pete Rose gambled on baseball, it might or might not have affected his team or baseball, but he was still banned from the game for life.

Rumad, please take a step back and reconsider your position (unlikely) otherwise stop restating the same things, you sound like a broken record player.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Helix

Rumad, I think you should refrain from posting on these boards whilst you are drunk mmmkay?

And if you are not drunk, I am surprised how someone can play a game that requires so much typing and chatting in IRC, and still be able to type and spell so horribly.

Secondly, I know it wont change your point of view, as you have made it perfectly clear that you are unwilling to back down from your soap box. Yes people do deserve second chances, but this would be TP's 3rd or 4th chance. He seems to go from alliance to alliance, getting kicked from them as they find out he is either a cheater / poor overall person.

As for you comparing this to real life, and pleading that this is only a game, and punishment should not be so severe. Being denied admission into any alliance in planetarion is hardly severe punishment. In fact, it is probably less than what he deserves. Kevin Mitnick was banned from computers as a whole for 10 years for his hacking crimes, why would banning TP from PA for a few rounds be high punishment. He has done very malicious acts in a game, which have hurt others. Pete Rose gambled on baseball, it might or might not have affected his team or baseball, but he was still banned from the game for life.

Rumad, please take a step back and reconsider your position (unlikely) otherwise stop restating the same things, you sound like a broken record player.

Not drunk at work and yes my typing is bad I agree,

Secondly you all seem to think of him as some sinister character. Yet he did nothing in comparison to the credit card fraud of "sme" LDK members.

Lets not get too moral about this when as morden pointed out 90% have or are cheating. As for not changing my POV and restating arguments - you and the otehr posters (apart from morden) have done little to challenge what I ave said, just stated the opposite hnce the polarisation of views. So yep ight on all counts... sort of

[alch]

Rumad, i dont really care if he deserve a second chance, the guy did what he did, after the talk i had with him yesterday i had the feeling like he dont really care about what other think and what we are doing, what we are doing in here and what i am doing the last week is mainly to lead a campaign against the disinformation that someone in FAnG has done the few days before TP was let in.
A poll has been made inside the alliance, asking the member what they think about letting TP in, most of the member said "i dont know him, so i dont have nothing against him" theses member never read the forums or from time to time get a glimpse of it, an very biased glimpse as they dont read entirely the facts.
The one who posted the poll had to give his personal view of course, manipulating his words to make sure that the member wont be able to counter the proposition or wont be arsed to do so.
i dont blame this guy who posted the poll, i am sure he did that under some "principle" and also under some pressure of some officers in the alliance who would 'quit' if TP wont be let in.
The result is that a known cheater was accepted, that member were missleaded, while myself i asked for an investigation to make sure my community wont accept an hacker (i was told that some people are holding some information that TP might be not guilty) and i was told that anyway people will have to look into his case but he will be most likely be rejected, so i was happy knowing my community wont take in this kind of hacker in and i wont have to meet him in the back room and the public room in the future.
Of course later on i found out that the poll was posted, not only the investigation was not led but some biased view were given as explanation in the poll leading that TP was let in "by choice of the community" i am quoting.
This is disgusting me, this is also futile to explain here that after having a long talk with several of fang member, and warning them and leading them to the appropriate thread on this forums and explaining the what TP has done, they were surprised and choked, and not understanding whats happening.
following days, officer quitted in disgust, HC demoted themselves because TP has broke some of the rules that were agreed upon when he was accepted and the only reason he is still in FAnG is because of some luck and mainly because of some pressure that some people are doing to not let him go.

Now i am sure TP is reading this thread, and i am sure next time i will join #fang i will get pmed by him again, asking me to get off his back and take off my nose out of his business, and im sure i will be victime of another light abuse from him (i do expect that from people who dislike me), but to make sure that he and other who stand by him and think i am WRONG understand one thing i will say it in here:

i am not doing that because i have personal issue with him, in fact i totally forgot he was spying on one of my gal in a speedround and later on in another speedround he done the same.
I am doing this because i care about 2 things. i care about a community which i am in for over 9 rounds (FA community since round2) and i care about the friends i am playing with in FAnG in other game and about the people i have recruited to FAnG over the past round i was HC and officer or normal member and i feel some duty over them, i refuse to be in the same community with him, this is simple, you can say i am wrong, you can say i am right, you can say i am stupid or whatever, i respect all other views that stand against me but i feel this is my right to ask my community which i am playing with for a quite good time and which i was loyal too in the past and now to keep their memberbase clean of all possible scum who could affect us.
more than 30 member of the community cant be wrong, and knowing who are disgusted from TP and talking to them daily i can assure you that the one having most problem with the fact that TP was let in are the most LOYAL members, people who i would fight with at any time or play with at any time.
Remember, a community or an alliance is composed by 99% members and 1% of command, this is something i liked to remind some people over the round and the time, to make sure they understand that the people leading the community are not the only one to make the community.

For all the guy like rumad that have other views than me, i am doing that and posting in here not to explain you or change your view, the fact you have different views than me is simple, we are humans and we are set to different paths in our life, i do respect your views, but i will fight theses if i have to, to make sure mine will win and be heard.

Stop the crusade against FAnG community, the members there are the one who get all the fire and believe me they dont deserve it, blame TP and the one that strongly support him to missleading an entire group.

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Secondly you all seem to think of him as some sinister character. Yet he did nothing in comparison to the credit card fraud of "sme" LDK members.

CC fraud is a crime, Pa took legal steps and ppl were refunded, planets payed illegally were closed and the whole lithuanian cc area was banned from paying for the next round. This lead to other Xan members paying for LDK in the following rounds. Legally.

Lets not get too moral about this when as morden pointed out 90% have or are cheating. As for not changing my POV and restating arguments - you and the otehr posters (apart from morden) have done little to challenge what I ave said, just stated the opposite hnce the polarisation of views. So yep ight on all counts... sort of

Cheating is not a crime and morals dont apply to this in the same amount as to crimes. Thats 2 different pairs of shoes.

About changing your Pov, its very hard to change someones who posts over and over the same stuff without ignoring facts, like the evidence raised against TP, not knowing if or how he was closed/deleted etc etc.

[alch]

An official response has been made from the senate of FAnG and i am quoting them officialy on theses boards.

This matter has been brought to the attention of the FAnG Gaming community senate and we are investigating the proper means of action

[Helix]

Originally Posted by alch

An official response has been made from the senate of FAnG and i am quoting them officialy on theses boards.

This matter has been brought to the attention of the FAnG Gaming community senate and we are investigating the proper means of action

They said before that they are investigating it and nothing has happened. FAnG has become cowardice, they are afraid to lose, and they dont want to lose someone in the top 20. They have lost their morals, and they have lost my respect. There are probably many members that have a problem with TP and are being wrongly accused in all this matter. But the simple fact is that this has dragged on way too long, if those members really cared than something would have been done sooner. The fact that it has taken this long for them to say they are looking into the matter simply shows that the majority of FAnG didn't really care very much, and that saddens me.

I hope that FAnG can turn this around and quickly remove TP...and when that happens I hope that TP deletes his planet again, much as I would like to roid his planet I dont want roids that TP has taken from other ppl.

[alch]

They have lost their morals, and they have lost my respect. There are probably many members that have a problem with TP and are being wrongly accused in all this matter. But the simple fact is that this has dragged on way too long, if those members really cared than something would have been done sooner. The fact that it has taken this long for them to say they are looking into the matter simply shows that the majority of FAnG didn't really care very much, and that saddens me.

helix - please dont generalize, the majority of fang has been misleaded in some way and on other hand the one who havent took it up to the senate, and they are doing something about it, sorry they cant kick him the first minute they received the email, but you know some people have other matter to take care of. like real life.
but do me a favor, dont generalize whole community (about 200 members) for what 3-4 people have done.

[Sk8az]

thats enough 7up wannabies. only because your leader is bold and mine isnt doesnt mean you can be so mean to us:P

WAZAP DIABZ?

[Helix]

alch, I said that the majority of FAnG is probably wrongly accused, but this issue has not exactly been quiet for the past week. I am sure the senate did not just hear about it today, it has been known for quite some time. And if FAnG members were given strict orders not to reply to this thread, then it means that the majority of FAnG would also know about the situation.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Helix

alch, I said that the majority of FAnG is probably wrongly accused, but this issue has not exactly been quiet for the past week. I am sure the senate did not just hear about it today, it has been known for quite some time. And if FAnG members were given strict orders not to reply to this thread, then it means that the majority of FAnG would also know about the situation.

Im fang and alls im saying is I get home in 2 hours and there had best be 1 less member in fang when i arrive :P

[Helix]

I feel for you fyodor, you and the multitude of other honest FAnG players are being ridiculed and punished for the mistakes of their command.

[alch]

Allright the problem now is, once TP get kicked, i hope he wont get recruited into another alliance.
so we need to get all HCs agreeing he is unrecruitable.

[Forest]

alch thats my job

I think u will find no-one will accept him now, certainly no-one ni top 10

[Helix]

or at least nobody who will be well equipped enough to defend him

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Helix

I feel for you fyodor, you and the multitude of other honest FAnG players are being ridiculed and punished for the mistakes of their command.

I am command :P You and I talked alot last round /nick behe

[Helix]

ah, yes, talked about all that stupid NAP that WP made :/ heh...from my experiences with you then, you deserve no place in this "scandal"

[Chaos]

soo.. is TP still in FAnG?

[Assassin]

but ofc..

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Chaos

soo.. is TP still in FAnG?

I jumped in private channel this morning, and he was there in all his glory.......
My patience is running out on this issue. I was promised that it would be dealt with 2 days ago. The promised it would be dealt with yesterday....still nothing. Wish I had alliance eta as ive got nawty incomings atm :P

[Chaos]

well. you've got my respect Fyodor, for taking a stand.
if you get into trouble cuz of that, don't hesitate to PM me on NG if I can help in any way. be it ships or something else.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Chaos

well. you've got my respect Fyodor, for taking a stand.
if you get into trouble cuz of that, don't hesitate to PM me on NG if I can help in any way. be it ships or something else.

thanks dude. most of fang doesnt know about TPs history or im sure theyd be in on getting rid of him too.

[Fyodor]

Chaos? same chaos from old hydra?

[Chaos]

Don't think so. I started playing R2, I've only been in HR (not counting cluster/para ally's or when HR part of NoS)

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by idimmu

tell them then

i have been, ive also put the thread you started about him in my quit message......

[alch]

behe, decision has been made, basically, there is only one thing they are waiting now, cant write it in here, but you can always find me on IRC from time to time, ill explain you.
Basically not all fang member know now, but some of them have been warned and they are just waiting patiently.

[Kjeldoran]

I don't wanna waste much words on all this before I spoke to several pple (alch etc) but what I can say is that like every human being, it's ok to screw up from time to time. I'm glad we do in a game and not irl ...

That being said, I will do whatever is in my power to do what should be done, and which tbh NONE of you have any clue about (expect maybe alch).

btw, France was great and I didn't have so much fun in months I can honnestly say.

for good old times, rgds Kj

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

thanks dude. most of fang doesnt know about TPs history or im sure theyd be in on getting rid of him too.

you voted no on that poll too?

/me fluffl3s behe

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Colt

you voted no on that poll too?

/me fluffl3s behe

I did, i voted no. Unfortunately i was away for a bit and didnt get back active until after the decision had been made. Guess its my bad there. But most of the peeps voting were saying things like, "dunno who he is...etc"

As it looks to me, one of Fangs So's was behind recruiting him. He swore as to TP's innocence. And told HC that if TP causes even one incident, then TP would be kicked and the SO would step down. I also have come to learn that the SO did alot of arm twisting to get him in saying things to the affect like "if you trust me, you can trust him" and "if you dont take him in, it means you dont trust me". Although I think letting him in was ridiculous for the HC to do, I have to look to blame the SO who pushed so hard to get him in.

/me hump0rs Colt

[[TehPropheT]]

/me rolls eyes...


sure edit my access so i cannot post and defend my lil self.

i see i have a lot of posts to reply to (:
sure ill cope.


but first off, id like to appologise to Forest for both mine and FT's chidish actions.
the abuse you recieved was totally unacceptable, and you shall not hear anymore of it from me.

[Forest]

The abuse and stuff that you and your friends denied giving me?

Ta for not making me out to be a liar finally.

[[TehPropheT]]

honest dont know what your on about in that last thread.

liar?... i said i did those childish gal banners.

never once denied that.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Actually we are just 63.

We got 28 Multis.

Do meddy share their logins on his computer?
Will Kj claim he got hacked?
Will Idler remember how fang in r8 really was?

The plot thinkens, and Im watching Jack Frost tonight \o/

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Do meddy share their logins on his computer?
Will Kj claim he got hacked?
Will Idler remember how fang in r8 really was?

The plot thinkens, and Im watching Jack Frost tonight \o/

Will Zhukov finally make his first usefull post?

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Will Zhukov finally make his first usefull post?

Don't hold your breathe.

[I am Idler]

FAnG was decent in round8.

I was in it

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

FAnG was decent in round8.

I was in it

true, though r7 still was our best round (imo). Pity the end of r8 was abit dreadful

[alch]

FAnG was decent in its many rounds, But the most important is that FAnG had an important role in many rounds and influenced politicals decision and people minds in theses rounds (for bad and good) which is why FAnG should be remembered as a respected alliance, so stop flaming FAnG

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

true, though r7 still was our best round (imo). Pity the end of r8 was abit dreadful

no as bad as th end of round 9 though eh?

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

Don't hold your breathe.

So you didnt think my "sid-logs" were funny?

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by alch

FAnG was decent in its many rounds, But the most important is that FAnG had an important role in many rounds and influenced politicals decision and people minds in theses rounds (for bad and good) which is why FAnG should be remembered as a respected alliance, so stop flaming FAnG

Fangs biggest achievement was that they either by own fault or by outside perception reached a status close to ldk for scandals, ****ups and cheatings. Many things in fangs history look for comparable events in other alliances, in a negative sense and one thing fang seems famous-infamous for is that they dont finish a round without a big internal blowup. r10.5 may be the exception.

[Zeus]

Recommendation to me old buddy LFF Look into these claims and see that the accusations against TP are very strong and to be honest, if Fang keep him, it will destroy the good rep they have. If other alliances accept cheaters, hackers, etc.. doesnt mean its right for you to do it. And the actions the person in this case took are much worse than cheating in a game. Let him go because Fang decided to let him go after seeing all the evidence against him, NOT because people in other alliance shouted about it.

Peace

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

Fangs biggest achievement was that they either by own fault or by outside perception reached a status close to ldk for scandals, ****ups and cheatings. Many things in fangs history look for comparable events in other alliances, in a negative sense and one thing fang seems famous-infamous for is that they dont finish a round without a big internal blowup. r10.5 may be the exception.

erm, r7 HELLO? It still was our best round imo.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Recommendation to me old buddy LFF Look into these claims and see that the accusations against TP are very strong and to be honest, if Fang keep him, it will destroy the good rep they have. If other alliances accept cheaters, hackers, etc.. doesnt mean its right for you to do it. And the actions the person in this case took are much worse than cheating in a game. Let him go because Fang decided to let him go after seeing all the evidence against him, NOT because people in other alliance shouted about it.

Peace

Sadly I've never had a person who pm'd me or sent me a board PM with the actual proof in it. If he's guilty then ofc I won't defend his actions and tbh he knows he won't play with FAnG next round and he has already applied to other alliances.

And erm, LEFF isn't playing PA anymore. Infact he's nagging my ass off to get me to stop playing PA aswell so FAnG can concentrate on other things

[Fyodor]

I think the proof that has been put on these boards has been more then enough to warrent his ostrozation from both fang and the community. ive caught him in numerous lies, and when i have caught him, hes threatened to "bring my internet down" amongst other things. He is not someone that fang has ever needed nor will ever need.

[Fyodor]

One of the things ive always found frustrating in fang is that people are very forgiving and will give known "bad guys" a second chance to prove themself. While i do believe this is nobel (in a christian sense) I think it leads to to many problems later on. Which having TehProphet in the alliance has done.

[alch]

Sadly I've never had a person who pm'd me or sent me a board PM with the actual proof in it. If he's guilty then ofc I won't defend his actions and tbh he knows he won't play with FAnG next round and he has already applied to other alliances.

And erm, LEFF isn't playing PA anymore. Infact he's nagging my ass off to get me to stop playing PA aswell so FAnG can concentrate on other things

ok let me answer few things here, 1. i gave you and your guys enough proofs. i talked to so many people from FAnG showing them what they are accepting within their ranks, that when you say no one pmed you, i feel ashamed, tho i still think that my word and some other officers words in your alliances might mean something, but somewhat you prefered him over few loyal members, this guy wont play next round and almost got kicked several time, not because of your own actions but because we pushed for it....

2. Razorback and kjeldoran, FAnG might have a strange and controversial history, but i do ask something from all theses people who try to troll on theses boards, as much as i hold respect for all of yours and your alliance, i request the same from your part, FAnG has achieved a lot in its history, and in fact round7 might have been in community terms one of the best (they were fresh meat in the market and underdog) but round10.5 was the round when not only FAnG finished but also won the round despite all the talk that FAnG didnt merit the winning.