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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 08:53   #1
Alezzar
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Arrow Prizes for Top Players

Currently, only the top 3 planets of each round are getting individual rewards(1 credit per each). I've been thinking since forever that this is hardly fair. I do understand, however, that giving too many credits away considering the small player base, is not a good option either. So, here's what I'm proposing.

TOP PLAYERS, BASED ON SCORE:
#1 - Credit + 15% increased RP or CU startup bonus for next round.
#2 - Credit + 12.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#3 - Credit + 10% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#4 - 9% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#5 - 8.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#6 - 8% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#7 - 7.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#8 - 7% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#9 - 6.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#10 - 6% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#11 - 5.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#12 - 5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#13 - 4.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#14 - 4% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#15 - 3.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#16 - 3% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#17 - 2.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#18 - 2% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#19 - 1.5% increased RP or CU startup bonus.
#20 - 1% increased RP or CU startup bonus.

So, for example, you have ended up the last round 10th, you get +6% on ur RP or CU startup bonus for next round. Can only pick one of them. This way we have 20 spots providing a significant bonus for next round and it's really worth fighting for them, rather than supporting the 5 planets fighting for top3. After all, those that get into top20 have worked as hard as the top 3 planets and deserve some recognition. (yeah, I've famously missed top 3 on several occasions, I can clearly relate here).


TOP PLAYERS, BASED ON VALUE:
#1 - 15% increased Resources startup bonus.
#2 - 12.5% increased Resources startup bonus.
#3 - 10% increased Resources startup bonus.
#4 - 7.5% increased Resources startup bonus.
#5 - 5% increased Resources startup bonus.

Keeping value is not an easy thing to do, although it's often not enough for a top-placed finish. I still think those really good at it, should get some recognition for their efforts. (Could be nerfed since on most occasions the top 5 value planets end up top20 too, still worth a reward in someway).

TOP PLAYERS, BASED ON XP
#1 - 2000 RP startup bonus.
#2 - 1500 RP startup bonus.
#3 - 1000 RP startup bonus.

XP players can be annoying, but that said, playing an effective XP planet require quite some skills. And the bonus as RP rather than CU is a fitting reward for their efforts.

TOP SCANNERS
#1 - 2500 CU startup bonus.
#2 - 2000 CU startup bonus.
#3 - 1500 CU startup bonus.

Support planets are the backbone of any good alliance out there. And the best of them deserve some recognition.

TOP COVERT OPERATIONS
#1 - 1500 RP startup bonus.
#2 - 1000 RP startup bonus.
#3 - 500 RP startup bonus.

Covert Operations can be very useful in certain situation, hence I think those really good at it should get some reward for their efforts. (Debatable if it should be given to those with most completed operations or those with highest success rate).

Best Roid Capper of the Round: 1500 RP startup bonus.

What am I trying to achieve with these changes?
To reward more than 3 players for their efforts during the round and motivate them before going into the next one.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:11   #2
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I approve of this change.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:20   #3
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I don't think the people who are already winning need any more help winning more.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:32   #4
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I don't think the people who are already winning need any more help winning more.
Only 2 players in the last 2 rounds were top20 on both occasions (LukeyLove and Turjake), so I don't find that argument valid.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 13:25   #5
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I don't think the people who are already winning need any more help winning more.
My thoughts exactly.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 13:36   #6
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
My thoughts exactly.
Only 2 players in the last 2 rounds were top20 on both occasions (LukeyLove and Turjake), so I don't find that argument valid.

As I already posted above. Most top players go for one solid round and take the next one slightly or completely off. Barely anyone maintains the same level of activity for two or three rounds. Maybe I should've calced how much the bonus would be rather than giving percentages, I think too many people don't calc before commenting. It's a system to motivate people to aim for top20 and to keep that level of performance, rather than giving an "edge". An edge would be to give the winner 10k CU or RP. He is getting 1200 as we speak.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 20:50   #7
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Alezzar View Post
Only 2 players in the last 2 rounds were top20 on both occasions (LukeyLove and Turjake), so I don't find that argument valid.
I could just say that I don't find your argument valid - but I won't. I just disagree with your proposal.

Speaking of invalid arguments:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alezzar View Post
As I already posted above. Most top players go for one solid round and take the next one slightly or completely off. Barely anyone maintains the same level of activity for two or three rounds.
Do you really think that offering such players a few extra RP would make them try harder?
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 21:13   #8
Alezzar
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Speaking of invalid arguments:
Do you really think that offering such players a few extra RP would make them try harder?
So a few extra RP/CU arenít not enough to motivate, yet are too big of an advantage. Double standard at their best.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:38   #9
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

It's like having the winner of the Premier League start the new season 3 points ahead of the rest.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:50   #10
Alezzar
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
It's like having the winner of the Premier League start the new season 3 points ahead of the rest.
No, it's giving a reward depending on one's performance. They are doing the same thing, just give more money.

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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 09:57   #11
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
It's like having the winner of the Premier League start the new season 3 points ahead of the rest.
Itís not. Itís like giving them £100m prize so they have an even better chance of winning.

Iíd like to see some more prizes for random events:
- most roids lost
- biggest XP land
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 10:00   #12
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Veil05 View Post
Itís not. Itís like giving them £100m prize so they have an even better chance of winning.

Iíd like to see some more prizes for random events:
- most roids lost
- biggest XP land
I thought about those too. Didn't want to push it too much though
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 10:50   #13
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I vote in favour.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 11:10   #14
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I'm against the idea. Each new round should give the same chances at the start to every (paying) player.
if you want to boost some players, you should help those who finished last. That would give them an incentive to play again.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 11:39   #15
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
I'm against the idea. Each new round should give the same chances at the start to every (paying) player.
if you want to boost some players, you should help those who finished last. That would give them an incentive to play again.
So, people are not rewarded based on their efforts and performance, but on how much they underperformed? Makes no sense to me. The idea of having a competition is that a group of people fight to win and deserve some reward depending on their score at the end. I'm just proposing to widen the group of rewarded from 3 players to a lot more. And, if you calculate, it's not some huge kind of bonus, rather a motivational one. And it works only for the next round.

A good addition to this is to have each rewarded players from rounds marked somehow in the Universe/Galaxy pages. In that way, you won't know who exactly it is, but you will know he received a small boost to his startup bonus. The perks of being a top 20 player.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 11:55   #16
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

There's only 1 winner and he's already rewarded.
You want to reward people who lost, that doesn't make more sense than my proposal.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 12:03   #17
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I love this!!!

Creates a real purpose for aiming for those top spots !

And even better encourages the top players to go hard the next round.

Lots of guys go hard 1 round then dip out the next


Awesome suggestion

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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 12:26   #18
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
There's only 1 winner and he's already rewarded.
You want to reward people who lost, that doesn't make more sense than my proposal.
That's how most sports work and I see no reason why Planetarion should be any different. We can't reward everyone with credits, hence this is the way to go.


Thanks, @CBA! Good point too!
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 15:05   #19
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
if you want to boost some players, you should help those who finished last. That would give them an incentive to play again.
That's even more abusable than the original idea. At least finishing top 20 is hard:

"Well, shit, not even top 100 this round, and it's tick 1100. Time to crash my fleet away so I have a better chance next round."

"Alright, guys, we didn't get ally win this round. Time to waste our value so we start with a bonus next time."

Or even: "Meh, I don't really feel like playing this round, but I'll log in once a week to keep a shitty 0 roid planet alive for next round."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alezzar View Post
Only 2 players in the last 2 rounds were top20 on both occasions (LukeyLove and Turjake), so I don't find that argument valid.
But you propose to increase that number by giving players who did well one round a bonus in the next. I don't think that's a good idea.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 15:38   #20
Alezzar
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I donít think thatís going to happen as the competition for top20 will get a lot more intense and the offered bonus some players might have from the previous round will unlikely prove to be decisive. On the other hand, the proposed change will make a lot of players keep fighting to the end rather then give up when they figure out top3 is not doable, which is the case sometimes atm.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 12:31   #21
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

PA is not a sport, it's a wargame.
You can put it anyway you want, i hate the idea of giving an advantage to anyone for the following round.
If you want to have rewards so much for finishing 15th, find something that wont impact the next round.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 12:35   #22
Alezzar
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
PA is not a sport, it's a wargame.
You can put it anyway you want, i hate the idea of giving an advantage to anyone for the following round.
If you want to have rewards so much for finishing 15th, find something that wont impact the next round.
You didn't even calc how much the reward for finishing 15th would be, did you? Planetarion is a competition, if you want to put it that way, you need to motivate the players to perform, rather than supporting 5 people for top spots half of the round. Not to mention that score is hardly the only field in which Planetarion players deserve recognition. I don't see you proposing anything constructive.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 12:42   #23
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

That's your point of view, excuse me to disagree and to find that the current rewards are good enough.
I don't play for a reward but to have a fun time with my gals and ally mates.
When you make a good suggestion like the reflective tech, i applaud.
But this one is a no for me.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 13:04   #24
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
That's your point of view, excuse me to disagree and to find that the current rewards are good enough.
I don't play for a reward but to have a fun time with my gals and ally mates.
When you make a good suggestion like the reflective tech, i applaud.
But this one is a no for me.
It's Ok to disagree, not everyone shares the same point of view anyway. Good day to you
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 13:21   #25
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

Interesting suggestion that definitely triggers the right sorts of conversations about more tangible presence flowing between rounds.

I think it's right to give people a reason to care about those ranks, but not to give the winners an edge. The edge is laughingly small based on the above, but in PA these tiny variables can be capitalized into some momentum.

I'd be more interested in seeing some form of cross-round ranking or hall of fame, either based on all rounds from X point or based on the last 5 rounds akin to the coefficient used in Champions League seeding.

It seems madness that we have all the data, but we aren't using it to provide motivation to play across rounds and not do some last week dramatic crash.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 13:41   #26
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
Interesting suggestion that definitely triggers the right sorts of conversations about more tangible presence flowing between rounds.

I think it's right to give people a reason to care about those ranks, but not to give the winners an edge. The edge is laughingly small based on the above, but in PA these tiny variables can be capitalized into some momentum.

I'd be more interested in seeing some form of cross-round ranking or hall of fame, either based on all rounds from X point or based on the last 5 rounds akin to the coefficient used in Champions League seeding.

It seems madness that we have all the data, but we aren't using it to provide motivation to play across rounds and not do some last week dramatic crash.
Agreed about the hall of fame, that's a good thing to have.

However, I disagree about the first part of your post. Most of those tiny variables can be compensated with a bit more activity and dedication, don't think any of these bonuses would somewhat give a player a real advantage over the others. They key is to keep the players motivated and to aim higher. Too many people end top 20 and feel disappointed because they were way behind the top 3, I don't think that's right. They deserve a recognition too. Same goes for best scanners and covoppers. We just tend to ignore their efforts. The best they can hope for is a mention at EoRC.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 16:14   #27
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
Interesting suggestion that definitely triggers the right sorts of conversations about more tangible presence flowing between rounds.

I think it's right to give people a reason to care about those ranks, but not to give the winners an edge. The edge is laughingly small based on the above, but in PA these tiny variables can be capitalized into some momentum.

I'd be more interested in seeing some form of cross-round ranking or hall of fame, either based on all rounds from X point or based on the last 5 rounds akin to the coefficient used in Champions League seeding.

It seems madness that we have all the data, but we aren't using it to provide motivation to play across rounds and not do some last week dramatic crash.

I really do admire your intelligence here Lukey.....

I support all of the above
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 17:00   #28
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
Interesting suggestion that definitely triggers the right sorts of conversations about more tangible presence flowing between rounds.

I think it's right to give people a reason to care about those ranks, but not to give the winners an edge. The edge is laughingly small based on the above, but in PA these tiny variables can be capitalized into some momentum.

I'd be more interested in seeing some form of cross-round ranking or hall of fame, either based on all rounds from X point or based on the last 5 rounds akin to the coefficient used in Champions League seeding.

It seems madness that we have all the data, but we aren't using it to provide motivation to play across rounds and not do some last week dramatic crash.
Lukey

I suggested that here: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201404

I concur, there should be an overall leadership ranking of sorts. Also once your nick is tied to a login, that’s your nick... round on round.

Edit: I didn’t articulate it as well as you but this is due to my significantly lower IQ...
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 20:45   #29
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
Interesting suggestion that definitely triggers the right sorts of conversations about more tangible presence flowing between rounds.

I think it's right to give people a reason to care about those ranks, but not to give the winners an edge. The edge is laughingly small based on the above, but in PA these tiny variables can be capitalized into some momentum.

I'd be more interested in seeing some form of cross-round ranking or hall of fame, either based on all rounds from X point or based on the last 5 rounds akin to the coefficient used in Champions League seeding.

It seems madness that we have all the data, but we aren't using it to provide motivation to play across rounds and not do some last week dramatic crash.

This ^^

I would sort the passport out so it creates a detailed profile of each player (rank/score/xp/race preffered etc..) so you can chekc out your favourite pa player or brag to your mates - medals and shizz awarded to go on your page for planet ranks/ally wins/ top gals and other randomcrap like def fleets sent, attack fleets, scans, you name im sure can think of loads.

Winner of PA should get a mug and 3 credits, 2nd place gets 2 credits, 3rd place gets 1 credit - top ally gets 6 credits and top gal gets 4 credits. That is all that is needed in actual hard currency rewards. Also Allcomp tag shit shoudl be stopped as we all use TG now except ND
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 21:09   #30
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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passport
Ahh, 2009, where did you go.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 22:43   #31
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Ahh, 2009, where did you go.
As far as im aware its still there in the code gathering information about everyone who plays PA. It would be such a nice thing to have your account history stored in one linkable area with awards and trophies et al to show off (or in some peoples case put on your CV). This is one thing i really wish PA had actually finished and done properly. Shame on them.

Also Allezaar, giving every a small incentive to play well does nothing, giving everyone the chance at a big reward makes them scramble to get it
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 23:06   #32
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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As far as im aware its still there in the code gathering information about everyone who plays PA. It would be such a nice thing to have your account history stored in one linkable area with awards and trophies et al to show off (or in some peoples case put on your CV). This is one thing i really wish PA had actually finished and done properly. Shame on them.

Also Allezaar, giving every a small incentive to play well does nothing, giving everyone the chance at a big reward makes them scramble to get it
Thereís no big award and it wonít be. And imagine the outcry if I proposed bigger bonuses, my god.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 21:14   #33
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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This ^^

I would sort the passport out so it creates a detailed profile of each player (rank/score/xp/race preffered etc..) so you can chekc out your favourite pa player or brag to your mates - medals and shizz awarded to go on your page for planet ranks/ally wins/ top gals and other randomcrap like def fleets sent, attack fleets, scans, you name im sure can think of loads.

Winner of PA should get a mug and 3 credits, 2nd place gets 2 credits, 3rd place gets 1 credit - top ally gets 6 credits and top gal gets 4 credits. That is all that is needed in actual hard currency rewards. Also Allcomp tag shit shoudl be stopped as we all use TG now except ND
Increasing the given credits is hardly helping PA, hence my proposition.
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 22:37   #34
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Increasing the given credits is hardly helping PA, hence my proposition.
Your proposed reward isnt worth the effort, sorry. Do i want to graft a whole round for 7 ticks of RP at tick 1? No.

Do i want 3 more paid rounds and bloody 'I won Rd74 and Appoco spoke to me!' mug? Hell yes!
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 22:48   #35
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Your proposed reward isnt worth the effort, sorry. Do i want to graft a whole round for 7 ticks of RP at tick 1? No.

Do i want 3 more paid rounds and bloody 'I won Rd74 and Appoco spoke to me!' mug? Hell yes!
If you win r74 i'll get a you a mug myself!
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Unread 10 Oct 2017, 20:53   #36
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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good post
This sounds more like it. A new round should be a fresh start.
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 02:38   #37
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

How about mandatory bonus roids for finishing top 10 at the start of next round...that way its a burden and a benefit.
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 08:53   #38
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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How about mandatory bonus roids for finishing top 10 at the start of next round...that way its a burden and a benefit.
I like the idea of bonus roids
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 08:57   #39
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

what about starting to give penalty to cheaters and alliacnes that house cheaters.
Let all Ultores planets start with -1k RP/CP on all planet after having Zwansdick around and cheating this long
Apprime gets -2k for having brazil and elviz
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 13:33   #40
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

If we went with Alezzaars suggestions and #1 planet got 15% RP for winning the round and #1 value which is another 15% RP. Thats 30% increased begining. Thats like 2 gates, or the best part of FR hulls, or 2 cores. Thats a massive advantage over everyone at at tick 24. It sets them up to get a huge value lead very early on, which is wrong.

I also notice that nothing has been said about alliances and galaxies? Do you still want only t1 to be rewarded for those Alezaar? Or do you have ideas there? I dont spot alliances trying any less because they didnt get 5 credits from winning.

To me i think PA is more about teamwork to achieve goals than rewarding the guy who finished in 7th. You will not finish anywhere without a team around you, wether that is BP or BG or a whole alliance. So dont those people deserve as much reward as the person they boosted? They do, but they dont want them, no one escorts their buddy for 500 ticks cos they know he needs a credit... its all for prestige and bragging rights. Which is where i drop back to again that a passport page profile which a list of achievements (think PSN trophies if you want) can be shown off to rivals and friends and future worshippers
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 14:07   #41
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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If we went with Alezzaars suggestions and #1 planet got 15% RP for winning the round and #1 value which is another 15% RP. Thats 30% increased begining. Thats like 2 gates, or the best part of FR hulls, or 2 cores. Thats a massive advantage over everyone at at tick 24. It sets them up to get a huge value lead very early on, which is wrong.

I also notice that nothing has been said about alliances and galaxies? Do you still want only t1 to be rewarded for those Alezaar? Or do you have ideas there? I dont spot alliances trying any less because they didnt get 5 credits from winning.

To me i think PA is more about teamwork to achieve goals than rewarding the guy who finished in 7th. You will not finish anywhere without a team around you, wether that is BP or BG or a whole alliance. So dont those people deserve as much reward as the person they boosted? They do, but they dont want them, no one escorts their buddy for 500 ticks cos they know he needs a credit... its all for prestige and bragging rights. Which is where i drop back to again that a passport page profile which a list of achievements (think PSN trophies if you want) can be shown off to rivals and friends and future worshippers
Didn't you say the reward I'm proposing is not worth the effort?

A quick question - 30% of 8400 is how much? Less than 3k. 1600 + 3200 (for the first 2 gates) - 4800 RP. Not even close to getting first two gates done (First two Hulls are 7200, first two cores - 7200 too). And this is if a planet wins both score and value which doesn't happen as often as one would think. It can be easily coded that if one bonus is used for RP, the other has to be used for CU, if that's what you are worried.

The reward for the winning alliance is too small and insignificant, + most of them have a nice group of HCs/Officers keeping the other members motivated to perform better.

It's more about feeling appreciated rather than because you actually need the credit/bonus. I already said that a mark of someway next to the planets of the players that got rewarded in the previous round might work a charm. Yes, they will have an advantage, yet everybody is going to know they do and probably target them some more.
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 14:55   #42
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Didn't you say the reward I'm proposing is not worth the effort?

A quick question - 30% of 8400 is how much? Less than 3k. 1600 + 3200 (for the first 2 gates) - 4800 RP. Not even close to getting first two gates done (First two Hulls are 7200, first two cores - 7200 too). And this is if a planet wins both score and value which doesn't happen as often as one would think. It can be easily coded that if one bonus is used for RP, the other has to be used for CU, if that's what you are worried.

The reward for the winning alliance is too small and insignificant, + most of them have a nice group of HCs/Officers keeping the other members motivated to perform better.

It's more about feeling appreciated rather than because you actually need the credit/bonus. I already said that a mark of someway next to the planets of the players that got rewarded in the previous round might work a charm. Yes, they will have an advantage, yet everybody is going to know they do and probably target them some more.
Cat starts with 10500 RP. 30% takes it up to 13650. An increase of 3150. Cats maximum RPU is 250 per tick. That means by tick 22 cat could have Hypergate, Fighter Hulls to launch ETA 7 and by tick 42 HCT III to mine 500 roids. That is a ridiculous advantage for day 2 of a round.

I don't actually disagree that something needs to be done to 'reward' good finishes more in planet, gal and Ally, it's just I don't think your proposal is anywhere near the right solution. A few other posters here share that opinion too.
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 16:53   #43
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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Cat starts with 10500 RP. 30% takes it up to 13650. An increase of 3150. Cats maximum RPU is 250 per tick. That means by tick 22 cat could have Hypergate, Fighter Hulls to launch ETA 7 and by tick 42 HCT III to mine 500 roids. That is a ridiculous advantage for day 2 of a round.

I don't actually disagree that something needs to be done to 'reward' good finishes more in planet, gal and Ally, it's just I don't think your proposal is anywhere near the right solution. A few other posters here share that opinion too.
That was the input I was initially looking for rather than having discussions about the meaning of success and being rude.
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 17:10   #44
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

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That was the input I was initially looking for rather than having discussions about the meaning of success and being rude.
You wanted people to sums for you. You should have said

In regards to your early comment about only 2 people of last 2 rounds were t20 in both have you looked back further? Both those are classed as summer rounds. I would hazard that during September - May a lot more of the usual suspects are present regularly. Agar3s is a name that comes to mind as a serial t10
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Unread 11 Oct 2017, 16:17   #45
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Re: Prizes for Top Players

I'm all for new ideas on the forums but I have to agree with kaiba on this
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