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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 18:38   #1
zPeti
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Keeping new Players / new chat

I have been talking to the admins about what the best way is to keep new players in the game.

I think many people have read the threads about how quite a lot of new players I being attacked and lose interest in the game because of it, or they are exiled from their galaxy etc etc.

I am looking for suggestions about what might solve this problem.

Secondly, I think something holding back a lot of new players, at least that was my experience, is that they have to chat on IRC. In a previous post I mentioned that I want to improve this, however PATeam has advised me that removing IRC completely would not work as many people would not be able to run bots on a simple chat system.

So, the second question is, is IRC so important that we cannot get rid of it?

Adding a browser based chatting system is a MUST for the next round, it is my top priority, however I have been unable to find a usable system.

I want new users to be able to click on "chat" in the menu and be able to talk to their galaxy members, or globally to everyone.

So the options are
1. either I try and code an IRC client myself
2. We get rid of IRC completely
3. IRC remains for old players to run their bots, while a seperate chat system works ingame

I am looking forward to all opinions.

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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 18:47   #2
t3k
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Well first of all there is no getting rid of IRC as it's the best tool available. Using the Netgamers server allows us to talk to people who know through planetarion without them actually having to be involved in any way whatsoever. It's how we keep in touch with people, and a key reason as to why people keep coming back.

No IRC = No PA, it really is that simple.

May I enquire as to the progress of the facebook port?

If you want an ingame chat feature then sure, but dont make it IRC based. A galaxy/alliance chatroom would be useful, but link it to your planetarion account without any login requirements.

edit: one of the key reasons com unit is such an epic fail is that it is trying to connect to an IRC server. Even when connected, usability is limited. What a lot of people have come to start doing is using sites like tal-shiar or mibbit as web-based IRC alternatives.

If you created a live stream chatroom that was built in to the game itself (as opposed to using PA as a redirect for an IRC server) then this would be very useful.

In my opinion though, this kind of idea would be best suited to a facebook app. Your proposed suggestion seems to be focussing on keeping new players which is fine, as long as new players are coming in. At the moment there aren't very many of these. So make the facebook app, and include live text chat rooms as part of that, as to keep those players interested. Another benefit of having a facebook app is that every man and his dog will want to use your app as advertising. I.e. those adverts you get "get 50,000 of each resource for filling out this survey!". You can keep that seperated from the majority of the content, and you'll raise a bit of money through the adds too.

With any luck that'd also let you keep the adverts away from the PA site itself - they're expected on facebook.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 19:07   #3
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

As Kenny said, removing IRC just wouldn't be possible without killing the current community off.

However, to make a separate chat system would be bad. The old community would invariably ignore it (unless it offered some huge benefits), and segregating new players from the "pros" is bad. You want to integrate them. The community is what brings people back and is what keeps people playing.

With some clever coding, it might be possible to provide a system that on the face is akin to Facebook chat (which I think would be perfect for new players), that is actually transparently integrated to IRC.

So yes, creating a unique IRC client is probably the best option, although obviously it requires a lot more time/effort. And think outside the box, there's no need to see another web-irc effort that is just a clone of a standard desktop irc client.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 19:09   #4
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I have to shoot myself, im agreeing with Kenny.

If you quit using IRC, PA will die out quite rapidly. The fact that other games does not use IRC as much have to go on their records, but most other games without an irc option tends to have very few players, or a very independent playability. If you want to decrease the dependance on alliances/galaxies, then im sure having a basic, or easy chat system would be ok.

But best would probably be to have your own irc server that you can modify to have a easy access webirc like talshiar implemented in the chat system, but also accessible for irc users.

That way you are able to provide for both parts.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 19:22   #5
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

You missed an option
4) You extend the java chat system which currently exists to your own goals
Given that ive done something similar with one on a site i work with, it is a definite possibility. Heck it doesnt even require any coding if you dont want to - you can script it in the param tags
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 19:43   #6
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Something like http://webchat.quakenet.org/ - maybe? You can even embed it as an IFRAME on any site. This is the sort of thing both Planetarion and NetGamers needs. Far more friendly than any awful Java based IRC client.

How do you get rid of IRC? Seriously - you can't. The GC and ministers (most often the buddypack) will continue to use IRC in some shape or form. You can't just ban it, even removing NetGamers won't work - as people will either continue to use it or some other IRC network. They'll still exile people as IRC is considered the standard for active planets, if they even bother trying to join the IRC channel then they often get exiled.


You don't need yet another chat system, but you need other ways of trying to improve ingame communication...

Examples: Adding comments to the galaxy incoming screen. Why can't I add a comment after seeing something along the lines of "Covered with X spider"? Why can't I add a link to a scan which I've performed as a scanner, instead of potentially mutiple people asking for the same scan? Infact - why doesn't the game automatically add them for the convenience of the galaxy? Every time there are incoming hostiles, everything has to be co-ordinated in IRC.


Don't get rid of IRC, don't try and directly replace it with yet another chat system either. Just try to improve all the things which make IRC necessary and it might make things a bit less harsh on people who can't sit on IRC all day. Combine this with a better web IRC client and it might make things a bit friendlier.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:04   #7
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

thinking about this a little more - from the point of view of coding your own chat client.
http isnt entirely compatible with irc, as it isnt persistent. odds are you are looking at having the irc 'client' on the server side and an ajax application to refresh and send data to it, Meaning cgi irc of some sort.
thats going to increase the resource burden on the servers.

another option is to have a chat 'server' coded which is more http friendly - but in order to sync that with irc you will be looking at coding and running a P10 compliant server to link to netgamers ( and the documentation for P10 protocol is woeful and in parts, incomplete. I know from experience having coded such a server/service hybrid )
Given the limitations on IRC itself, it will limit your chat servers capabilities but its still possible to do what you want in it.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:09   #8
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
Adding comments to the galaxy incoming screen. Why can't I add a comment after seeing something along the lines of "Covered with X spider"? .
this would be a great idea!! move the Alliance Defence system into galaxy incoming page! then nobody is forceed to join irc to sort out defence! more new people will know what to defend and wont be kicked out so often!
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:37   #9
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
You missed an option
4) You extend the java chat system which currently exists to your own goals
This. Yes. Do it.

The only way you're ever going to retain the current community and make the game more newbie friendly is by integrating any new chat system with IRC as we currently know it. The easiest way to do this is simply by creating an easy interface for IRC--much like we currently have ingame.

Some improvements that I can think of from the top of my head are automatic identifying with P (ie, a popup window for Pnick/password, checkbox to remember) and the possibility to create a list of channels to autojoin.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:42   #10
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

have it hard-coded in politics page, so that the GC sets a gal channel, and all joining the ingame-chat, get automatically directed towards their gal channel on account of their coords?
same with alliances? join an ally, automatically get invited into their channels (general/attack/defence/whatever)when using ingame-chat...
of course this has to work together with the currently used IRC system.

(no clue if this is in any way doable, but it does sound helpful for new people)
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:47   #11
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Some improvements that I can think of from the top of my head are automatic identifying with P (ie, a popup window for Pnick/password, checkbox to remember) and the possibility to create a list of channels to autojoin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
have it hard-coded in politics page, so that the GC sets a gal channel, and all joining the ingame-chat, get automatically directed towards their gal channel on account of their coords?
same with alliances? join an ally, automatically get invited into their channels (general/attack/defence/whatever)when using ingame-chat...
what you described is a single param tag added to the html code per irc command to perform on connect ( such as join, msg )
They could do it now without having to modify the chat client itself
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 20:49   #12
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Yeah, the option for GCs and HCs to set a galaxy and alliance channel was something I'd thought of too, but had forgotten before I finished my post.

You might also want to consider autojoining #planetarion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
what you described is a single param tag added to the html code per irc command to perform on connect ( such as join, msg )
They could do it now without having to modify the chat client itself
Personally, I don't care how they do it. Just that it's done.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 21:00   #13
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
http isnt entirely compatible with irc, as it isnt persistent. odds are you are looking at having the irc 'client' on the server side and an ajax application to refresh and send data to it, Meaning cgi irc of some sort.
thats going to increase the resource burden on the servers.
This is essentially what I was thinking about in my first post.
I made the assumption that the new owner is willing to invest both financially (server) and time/effort (potentially lots of code).
I don't know what P10 is, but it sounds like the right kind of thing from what you wrote. I don't see why you'd need a formal specification for it though, considering it'd be a closed service just limited to PA/NetGamers.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 21:04   #14
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
This is essentially what I was thinking about in my first post.
I made the assumption that the new owner is willing to invest both financially (server) and time/effort (potentially lots of code).
I don't know what P10 is, but it sounds like the right kind of thing from what you wrote. I don't see why you'd need a formal specification for it though, considering it'd be a closed service just limited to PA/NetGamers.
P10 is the protocol that ircu (what netgamers uses) servers use to 'speak' to each other. its different from rfc1459 which describes a client-server protocol. the specs are necessary to create an implementation of it which actually works properly without causing synchronisation and data integrity 'issues' with the rest of the network. you dont *need* to draw up specs for the rest of it but it helps when doing something like this

Only reason i know about it in the first place is because i've done something similar for a project at work, coding an irc service - although that was more centered around the server side of things than the client
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 21:37   #15
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^ View Post
You missed an option
4) You extend the java chat system which currently exists to your own goals
Given that ive done something similar with one on a site i work with, it is a definite possibility. Heck it doesnt even require any coding if you dont want to - you can script it in the param tags
For freshness the java com unit needs to be replaced with something like mibbit, which does away the requirement for Java.

The Java com unit does use ports 6667-6669 which can be blocked by firewalls, but that can be overcome by opening port 80 as a client port on the PA IRC server.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 21:38   #16
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Aha, yeh, didn't realize P10 was the protocol for irc server-server communication. So yeh, I guess it would be best to go with that. It might (I say this without any research) be easier to run a similar version of the ircd that NG uses on a server, but limited to local connections, where the local connections come from the AJAX client system working with the user's browser.

Or even do without the ircd, and just have the AJAX client connecting to a server already provided by NG.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 21:39   #17
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markb View Post
For freshness the java com unit needs to be replaced with something like mibbit, which does away the requirement for Java.
I strongly suggest against the use of anything remotely similar to the current java com unit or mibbit, as attracting new users will not be done with yet another web-irc clone of a desktop client (see my first post).
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 22:37   #18
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Hermes is already open on port 80 - we will look at making sure we have an IRC open on port 80 for the future. This will allow us to integrate a web-based client to it.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 22:50   #19
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

removing irc; how do you even think about planning to implement it? Or was the thought to close all people using irc? Please do not think about considering that option again

Integrating something like mibbit into the game would not be a bad idea. might give the newer players an easier way to get online.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 23:54   #20
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

i dont think the need to use irc keeps ppl away from the game

its more the fact they need to download mirc/use another webbased irc client
go to netgamer.org and register a nick
auth with p every time they join
etc

why all that hazzle ?

on planetsignup
ask ppl for their pnick/password if they allready have a pnick
or if not let em choose a desired one

so after signing up an account u automatically get your choosen pnick registered or use your existing one
integrate irc into the game and with hitting a single button u join the choosen channel(s)
automatically login to p etc...

make it easy to conncet to irc, make it possible to do it at work, or whereever ppl are, without them having to remember all those p commands or pnick/password

enable something in preferences where ppl can enter the channels they want to join, as standard pick the channel the gc has choosen or just use
#1:1 for gal 1:1, have it automatically registered before u start the round, and whenever a planet joins the gal he gets added to p there and gets invited hitting the join irc button
if ppl want to have another galaxy channel with maybe not everyone in it, they can still reg it themselves

sounds a bit messy maybe, but i dont see why it wouldnt be doable
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 06:11   #21
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

i agree with M0RPH gettin rid of irc would kill of a vital part of the PA community, making things easier snd more accessable for new players is a far better idea
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 09:24   #22
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Facebook has that chat system which it's own little task bar at the bottom where you can open conversations and talk to friends like IM but in your browser.

Such a system would be dificult to code but would being huge benefits as the "taskbar" would in future be able to carry other functions, bcalc links, a quick calculator etc. etc
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 10:19   #23
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Tbh i dont think the IRC aspect is the reason why new players dont stick around. You can give new members an easily accessible communication tool, but like it or not, this game isnt fun when youre getting spanked 24/7.

I believe a person is far more inclined to be a repeat customer if they get something out of it, if they see some reward for their effort, be it an increase in score/fleet/roids/rank whatever. This is reasonably achievable for a new planet in a t5 galaxy, as they are given enough time between incomings to be able to grow, or rebuild after losses. A player in a bottom ranked galaxy simply doesnt get that respite, and has to accept getting incs as soon as theyre over 200 roids, and in many cases, roided to below 50. Getting the shit kicked out of you daily, for most people, isnt enjoyable.

We can make the community as easily accessible for new players as possible, yet they are only going to put the time and effort into the game and community and ultimately, come back, unless they find the game enjoyable. This, unfortunately, i dont believe is the case with 90% of new signups.
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 14:27   #24
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I don't know much about the coding aspect of it, but im not sure a fully functioning link to irc is really needed for beginners to get in contact with other planet members.

Is there a way of having something similar to facebook chat? Where u can have planets in your gal online available to chat to or even leave them offline messages, and will automatically sign u in when you login to PA?

Simply being able to talk to your gal mates would help alot of new players, and if they want to get more involved they can then be shown how irc works etc.
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 14:31   #25
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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I don't know much about the coding aspect of it, but im not sure a fully functioning link to irc is really needed for beginners to get in contact with other planet members.

Is there a way of having something similar to facebook chat? Where u can have planets in your gal online available to chat to or even leave them offline messages, and will automatically sign u in when you login to PA?

Simply being able to talk to your gal mates would help alot of new players, and if they want to get more involved they can then be shown how irc works etc.
This would work, but I think it'd be more helpful it it were a channel as opposed to 1on1 chat
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 16:13   #26
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I'm not a coder so i don't know how difficult it would be to add it but wouldn't it be nice if the gc / ministers could set an irc channel + key in galaxy preferences (politics) and when you connect using the com-unit (java or ajax based) it automaticly takes you into your galchannel?

Always easier for new people who have no idea how irc works to just click 1 button and end up in their galchan where (hopefully) there are people around to help them get started.
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 16:49   #27
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Maybe if you talked to the people running Mibbit you could come to some arrangement
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 17:40   #28
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

How would it help unless it was the greatest web chat system known to man? Chances are - even if a replacement ingame web based chat system was implemented, people might consider it too awkward and inconvenient compared to IRC which they can leave open.

Nearly 70% of users have an alliance, these alliances are highly likely to have an alliance private channel on IRC. Are users going to use both an ingame chat system just for their galaxy and IRC for their alliance? No - they'll probably ignore it and stick with IRC.

I'd recommend:

In the short term, update the java IRC client so that it takes up the full area of the new window. Rename "Com Unit (IRC)" to "Chat" or "Galaxy Chat" so that it's far more obvious to any player. Allow the GC to set a channel and a key so that it can auto join the right channel. This would improve the existing system sufficiently to work on other more important areas of the game, such as the issues JungleMuffin has mentioned.

Medium term, maybe look at replacing the IRC client with something not so crap and sluggish. Quakenet webchat and Mibbit are perfect examples of web clients which work right - although they both require a different web server and co-operation with NetGamers to ensure they don't get banned due to the way they work. Ideally it would change the hostname to the originating HTTP connection.

Just make the game less dependant on IRC in the long term, add various systems to the game which integrates communication with the functions of the game.
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 18:35   #29
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
In the short term, update the java IRC client so that it takes up the full area of the new window. Rename "Com Unit (IRC)" to "Chat" or "Galaxy Chat" so that it's far more obvious to any player. Allow the GC to set a channel and a key so that it can auto join the right channel. This would improve the existing system sufficiently to work on other more important areas of the game, such as the issues JungleMuffin has mentioned.
probs the easiest option
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Just make the game less dependant on IRC in the long term, add various systems to the game which integrates communication with the functions of the game.
even if the game gets changed beeing less IRC dependant, IRC is and will always be a big part of PA
how many ppl just play it cause of the community
how many more love to hang around on irc (not only galchannel) to brag/chat/laugh about this and that, may it be something about PA or not
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Unread 10 Mar 2009, 22:31   #30
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Probably should have been two messages, one on IRC and one on keeping players.

I am posting on keeping new players. How about on account creation you could have a check box for people who are new users to check that they are new, when they check this they would get a tutorial of all the menus items and special quest geared at teaching them the game.

Maybe have the cluster 1 just for new signups and have a way for other members to sign up for cluster 1 to help these new players. Cluster 1 could have a special bash level that would keep them from being bashed too badly and an opportunity to exile into the regular clusters when they are ready or when they reached a certain roid count/score or join a non training alliance.

Galaxies in cluster 1 may need to be like the 200's where you can have more then 20 so that you can get enough active new players and have a opportunity to exile as a pack of 2-5 so they can stay with the peope they have met in this.

Just some ideas, Will think more on it. We also need a better instruction manual.

I know that I would be willing to help out a galaxy of new players, and know that PA needs new blood.

There also are a number of alliances that all they ask is that you are somewhat active to join, I am sure they would be willing to take in new players as well as they do now.

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Unread 11 Mar 2009, 02:52   #31
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

maybe a change in the exile function so people can only exile themselves to stop new players getting passed around the uni like lepers
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Unread 11 Mar 2009, 12:40   #32
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

irc is a must, u cant try get rid of it, older players will still use it, doesnt matter what great new ingame system you make the older players and the skillful players will want to use irc bots and tools. the only option you have is to make the chat system ingame better linked with irc. which would probably mean you fubra have to spend a lil time, effort and money here, so prove ur not like jolt and omac and invest a lil in PA.

off subject a bit here, i think the lack of new players isnt just down to the fact getting on irc is problematic, if and when i go to try a new game web based or client based i look at the portal, look at shots of the game and read the FAQ have a general look about and a feel for if i want to play the game. The current portal we have atm looks terrible and is hardly ever updated, you need to impress the new player when they visit the portal. The bit that explains about PA puts ppl off from the word go, its a wall of text no one likes a wall of text, and same with the IRC guide ever heard of the term "a picture speaks a 1000 words"? The game also needs to show players how to play a bit more quests arnt enough saying "init asteroids" as a quest is all well and good but you dont tell the players where and how and why to innit them. Also promote the use of irc to players, tell them that there is a world of ppl out there chatting, arguing, collaborating etc.

before you can even really think about having new players you really have to invest in the game you got atm, means updating things and making it look and feel like its not a game that has been forgotten about for years, there is a list as long as my arm on things that arnt completed or updated mainly cos PA has been run by volunteers for years.
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 04:51   #33
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

get mibbit coded in to pa in someway instead of that crap thingie thats there atm, atleast you can use mibbit:>
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 05:22   #34
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

another problem might be when you exile/exiling im a 400k value planet ive self exiled 10 or so times. all i keep getting is crappy gals and my next self exile will cost 4mil of each res so whats the point in keeping on playing if you just keep getting exiled into farm gals?
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 11:37   #35
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

quick thought:

maybe the bash limit could be connected to galaxy score somehow
so if you sit in a crap gal ur harder to hit by biggies

atm its just your own value, so if your 400k value on 2k roids and sit in the #1 gal hardly anything will happen to you as long the gal doesnt get heavy incs
however if bigger ppl could hit you idling there, that may change

on the other hand if ur 400k value in a crap gal (ur one the biggest for exampel) with 300 roids, u get waved as there is no tomorrow
the bashlimit connected to your gals score could help it

ofc thats takin away all those lovely nubroids i love to pick up, but it would be good for the small guys
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 11:40   #36
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

30 man allies.
10 man gals.
Remove the option to exile people.
Tighten bash limit.
No buddy packs.

New player problem solved.
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 12:31   #37
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

On the retention issue:

*max 50 members per alli (this 100 member alli thing is skewing the playing field too much)
*max 12 planets per gal (20 members in gal is insane and decreases target *selection)
*limited exiling (when you have a ****face in your gal you may want to exile him/her)
*Bashlimit tightened (agree with Crowly)
I do not agree on removing buddypacks.

With regard to what Annie stated: please define "training alliance".
I do agree on implementing a better instruction guide. Even an underdeveloped game such as Drakgalaxy has a sophisticated manual (multiple languages, comprehensive explanation).

On the new chat issue:

Remove that Java applet, it is horrible. I value the dedicated ingame IRC client option as much better. Whether this is reached by outsourcing or inhouse creation, that is a non-issue for me, maybe it is for you. Both ways have advantages of course.
Getting rid of IRC type of chatting is impossible imo. It is grown into the PA-body. If you remove it, it will bring a huge scar.
The issue is about user experiences. The current ingame communicator is delivers a horrible user experience. That can be fixed by that dedicated IRC client option. How to make it user friendly, I think many people here will be able to tell you ^^

My two cents.
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 13:47   #38
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

1) The statement about removing IRC is redundant, PATeam has no control over that! if netgamers goes down, other servers would be put up, and then new players have no chance of getting involved in alliances.

2) Most alliances use netgamers to host their alliance private channels, but some still use pirvate servers(which gives them more control). Unless your able to connect to multiple server with the web-irc, then some alliances will always be out of bounds for new players.
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Unread 12 Mar 2009, 14:42   #39
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Private alliance networks are ****ing retarded.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 03:39   #40
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonLess View Post
another problem might be when you exile/exiling im a 400k value planet ive self exiled 10 or so times. all i keep getting is crappy gals and my next self exile will cost 4mil of each res so whats the point in keeping on playing if you just keep getting exiled into farm gals?
i keep hoping to get you as random even though your planet is crap!
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 06:51   #41
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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i keep hoping to get you as random even though your planet is crap!
eh it would be nice but i just exiled for the last time spend 4.6mil of each res to land in a worse gal then i left so yeah this is over for me stoped playing now
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 08:59   #42
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Why not make the roid cap linked at the value again?
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 10:11   #43
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Because it discourages big team ups.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 11:46   #44
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I think theres more to it than just that one con. There are also several positives to be gained from it.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 12:20   #45
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

The con is huge. It just means that big planets will never lose a considerable amount of roids when attacked because big teamups won't take many from them and smaller ones are too easy to defend.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 13:29   #46
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Base it on the single value of each attacker. Then bashing is reduced, but team ups on bigger targets are encouraged.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 14:06   #47
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

That would mean that a huge teamup of a load of small planets will be very effective, which encourages the whole "strength in numbers" stuff even more, which would get ridiculous.
It would also encourage prod hiding even more so than it currently is, which is pretty gay.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 15:16   #48
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

"Prod hiding" should never have been made possible in the first place. It can only ever benefit the "elite few" at the expense of the "ordinary player".

I know which group we should be trying to encourage so I can't see why we continue to allow this practice.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 16:02   #49
M0RPH3US
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
"Prod hiding" should never have been made possible in the first place. It can only ever benefit the "elite few" at the expense of the "ordinary player".

I know which group we should be trying to encourage so I can't see why we continue to allow this practice.
yeah most likely the lamest feature ever, and it was implemented to donīt allow "hiding" anymore, after in r26? everyone did it and all those nubs crashed on hidden production.
yes u can scan now and calc how much it is, but why allow some selfish players to hide their production nearly all round? they can gain xp easy (though they "should" be big, dont give xp themselves, are not attackable by their real "bigger in score" enemies)

just remove the add to production for diffrent kind of factories and its solved, then hiding isnt possible anymore (until someone discoveres the next thing to exploit)

while we are at it, there is 2 more things which immediately needs to be solved

1) downtime procedure (recalling fleets is just gay, specially if the game is still down for the next 24h)
solution: rollback to the last possible tick, stop ticks, keep game open, give everyone 24h to recall his fleets (if ppl still crash u canīt help it, but it will influence less ppl in the end compated to if u recall all fleets)

2) vacation mode
its a joke that u have prelaunched incs, go to vacation mode and those are recalled, really i am lolling so hard atm (yes i took the chance of this last night, but its sooooo gay really)
solution: add a "hide fleet" option on the mission page for your fleet not to take part in battle, while allowing it to have that setting if u go to vacation mode and dont recall prelaunched incs, so if someone decides to go to vac mode while he got prelaunched incs, he can set his fleet to not take part in battle and still go to vac, while the pl incs keep going and roid him <<< that would be fair, everything else is just lame and will be exploited by chickens and lamers like me
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 16:48   #50
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

well pa is an elitisct game, any improvments done for the newbees is gonna be an improvment for the other player aswell =0 help for them

second, pete try to actually play the game to figure out wtf its about, irc is a non matter really and stop listen to the imbreeded admins who thinks the new add ons to the code is the best thing since jesus.

oh btw get the damn ticker running too will help i guess
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