a political summary of r24

[newt]

Originally Posted by logbat

I try to keep my postcount down on this forum, atleast answering posts that seem like utterly idiotic and/or "drunkmade". Im guessing the last one.

First you make a completely insane post accusing another alliance of being shit and avoiding wars last round, I call you on it, then you say I'm the one making idiotic posts I'm quite speachless, other than to remind you that this thread is about r24 - and the urwins in r24 - not the galaxies you had back in r7 or so? If thats what is confusing you.

As for ND - all I've said is that without eXc, CT have won the round at tick500. Why I say that: by the time we managed to start the war (took a week or longer) CT had a huge roid lead on you all for ages. So say we don't start the war --> the first war doesn't happen (and it really does not happen - if you doubt that, go talk to all alliance HCs involved). CT have an extra week of 10-20k more roids than urwins before you dropped the nap (which you would not have done anyway). As the weeks went by, the more untouchable CT would have become. In my opinion, it was either a case of take CT down when we did, or not at all - with the first war nicely stunting their growth a tiny bit. To have taken down CT later in the round would have required insane dedication by the alliances doing it - never going to happen. So CT win the round easily.

Anyone disagree? ND hc disagree? CT hc disagree? Obviously logbat will disagree with a "no, urwins would have roid-raced ct and won! of course we would never have broken the nap cos of honour!"

What would have happened was the other alliances would have gone after urwins - like they/we did when attacking ct got a bit 'hard' (we had a bit of trouble persuading them all to attack ct instead of urwins you know logbat, despite ct being #1 by miles) - far be it for me to predict how you would have done in that situation, but judging how well you did in the actual round when you were targetted a bit... heh, yeh.

So yes I'm saying exc deserve absolutely all the credit for what went on before you dropped the nap with CT. What went on after all that (bulk of the 2nd war, ND bashing urwins, ND keeping ct down) - like I said in my original post, I don't know what happened really. But obviously ND musta done a hell of a lot of good work/politics to come from 3rd to win... I'm not gonna sit here and shine light up their asses though. For the last 2weeks of the round or so, from what I gather, we were NDs' bitches - they say jump, jupp jumped.

As for exc napping - yes, during the war we "napped" (jsut agreed to avoid each other) the alliances we were working together, and kept a few of those till the end of the round (rock/urwins/merc - we worked with nd till the end). Now good Sir - explain how you were any different (alliances dropping naps with you to bash you doesn't count - start listing naps you yourself dropped - the answer to which is "CT!!" - and 90% of ppl reading this (or 'in the know' generally) will go "erm yeh, cos you were forced to")

[furball]

Originally Posted by logbat

Everybody should pick a side! And FIGHT ffs.

Unless it's everyone for themselves (and I can't remember the last time that happened - Round 14?) then those 'sides' will be blocks where some alliances are allied to each other as part of fighting on the same side. Further, without a Deus-type alliance willing to switch blocks whenever one looks like getting the upper hand, one side will eventually triumph, which will lead to stagnation unless either the round ends or the block splits and turns on itself (see Round 9 - WEETNAR -> WEET -> ET). This is increasingly rare because rounds are shorter and HCs seem more willing to finish second or third, claiming a partial victory.


So basically it's not as simple as you think.

[Recluse]

i think Duo is more correct than anyone

oh an Mzyxptlk: Maybe some people were oblivious, but not all of us. We knew we were getting relayed the entire round, I even made a bet to one of our HC's about a pre-shuffle coord leak, it's just that noone could ever take the time to hunt down/find out who was doing it. Up until our coords were pretty much known anyway, I and many other Urwins would not post, and slapped arounnd those who did post, anything that could provide intel in the .priv channel.

I personally hinted at this several times, usually after making taunting or inflammatory remarks about a particular alliance :P

*Recluse waves to the people watching

[Mzyxptlk]

Oh, we didn't use the relay to gather intel, by then we (Ascendancy, Ministry et al) had already mapped pretty much all the interesting alliances. Like we've said before, it's just entertainment, just watching the newbs, so to speak. Furthermore, your channel didn't get relayed 'the entire round', so your so-called knowledge was at least partly paranoia.

[Kargool]

logbat, I think you are underestimating the power of politics. The same way that some might abhore the spying that Ministry did this round, it will always be a part of the game, some dislike the fact that there are politics in this game, but they will always be in the game as long as there are alliances.

ND managed to play politics right, and to do attacks and defense properly, and won the round based on that. CT made a big poo poo in being arrogant and snotty yet again. Urwins thought that muscle was everything this round and forgot to talk to other alliances.

Try to understand that this game is slightly more complex when you are an alliance HC than to aim your alliance's fleets at some random target and think that nobody will attack you when you are winning is either just stupid, or just plain old fashioned gullible.. Play the politics of a round right, and you will achieve a lot.

[[DDK]gm]

CT lost the round when we kicked the spys, we only had about 20 active members after urwins broke the nap and yet we still managed to take back the lead that urwins and ND had to finnish 1.5mil behind ND who were ment to be a fully active alliance.

mistakes we made, recuiting ministry, napping urwins....

[Gate]

All I can say is that I'm thrilled NewDawn won, and this thread gives a sterling impression of eXc and jupp.

ND have never been able to fill an alliance with top quality, uber-active players because they retain a commitment to community; a commitment which has made it the best online community I've ever been part of and which has ensured ND's survival round after round.

If ND have stuck to this, then Urwins and CT were the stronger alliances militarilty and it's great to see the underdog win.

[Zh|l]

Well done to ND by the way.

Though I don't like any of the alliances. CT because everyone seems to peg them as 'top' mainly due to history. Urwins because it has logbat, who for some reason I remember despising - something to do with Fury era time I think.

ND because of their misuse of my goodwill and friendship and attempt to bewittle me during an ND-1up meeting. Both Fish and Gate lost all respect for me that day, it broke my heart as Lokken can attest too (Mainly because I tend not to reach out to people not in my alliance and I did for them )

Still, well done to you sirs. Just be careful with the laurels.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

CT lost the round when we kicked the spys, we only had about 20 active members after urwins broke the nap and yet we still managed to take back the lead that urwins and ND had to finnish 1.5mil behind ND who were ment to be a fully active alliance.

And you managed to keep a full tag despite kicking more than a few "spies". Well done!

[Elevator]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

And you managed to keep a full tag despite kicking more than a few "spies". Well done!

wasn't the official CT count after week one 91 active in chan?

and gm; we could always have keept relay public longer so you guys would have to go really paranoid in order to kill relay (and kick an additional 5-6 ppl at least). 2nd place is 1st looser, so who wants 2nd place?

[Mzyxptlk]

I retrieved 90 in all, though I've only looked at joins.

[Elevator]

oh well. not like we ever bothered to prove anything then, and it's easy enough for ct to say that they were just "present" in chan etc...and I really don't feel like re-reading logs from back then just to prove anything

[Kargool]

MZ in schocking spying reveals cheating in CT incident!

Will anyone care?




Nope. CT has to many connections in to many high places.

Who was it btw who had Elviz the cheater this round?

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Kargool

MZ in schocking spying reveals cheating in CT incident!

I don't think there's a rule against having more than 70 people in your private channel.

Originally Posted by Kargool

Who was it btw who had Elviz the cheater this round?

CT.

[Kargool]

Ok, then officially, I ask you angryduck and ReligFree, how can you agree on harboring a known cheater like Elviz?

When he once again cheated and gotten closed this round?

Do you want to give your alliance an image that its okay for cheaters to be playing for you?

[jupp]

If they didnt get him this round CT would have won because of him though

maybe they thought it was worth the risk

[newt]

Its like why did satyr, logbat, mortalp and sleepless bp with a known cheater? and all 4 of them are high profile, there's lots of others that would have given their left testicle to have bped with elviz - ofc he can walk into any alliance he wants to (that has his friends inside it)

[Munkee]

rofl 90 members in ct priv chan.. sorry but i think you may have misinterpreted the activity due to my life drama which was main topic for the entirety of round 24.

When you can pull some facts from ure arses this thread will be of some use, but when you have morons "counting joins" producing proverbial bullshit from every orifice they can on to an internet forum theres not much chance of anyone agreeing on a "political summary".

When newt removes his tongue from jupps ass and elevator realises he has no stand point on any matter due to the sad act of a planet he was running last round we can all only agree on one thing: that nd won r24.

Summary over.. topic closed

[ElAlan]

Originally Posted by Munkee

elevator realises he has no stand point on any matter due to the sad act of a planet he was running last round we can all only agree on one thing: that nd won r24.

Err..right then...how about maybe before that statement you had a look at the average performance of most HC's of most alliances planets' then ask yourself if then none of these HC's have a standpoint due to the size of their planet??

Or maybe, just maybe the size of your planet has sweet fa to do with how much you know about the politics going on in the game....

[newt]

your attitude on this forum munkee is a fine example of why CT did not win the round. I'll get my head out of jupp's arse if you promise to pull your's out of your own.

(Man, I can understand where munkee is coming from now - making posts like these are so much more fun than posting actual thread-relevent ones)

[[DDK]gm]

HC's tend to have crap planets because they have to either go scanner or are too busy with alliance stuff to play properly.

Keeping an alliance tag full may be due to a funny little thing called recruitment. i recruited my galmate who has just started playing the game, also supergans, cartman........

[isildurx]

I dont think its overly hard to get a good planet as a HC, it might be harder however than as a normal member. If your a scanner ur fked regardless ofc.

[ElAlan]

I think people missed my point here, i wasnt having a go at HC's for havng smaller planets, just statting to Munkee there that having a smaller planet does not mean you cant be up with alliance politics by using HC's as an example, i fully understand why HC planets are generally small.

[Munkee]

Lol tbh i think the point being proven here is the fact everyone that left ct ended up in an alliance below us.. nice move douche bags.. way to play the politics

[Cochese]

CT didn't win though, so your point is moot.

[Mzyxptlk]

One could consider leaving alliance 1 to join an alliance 2 to be a sign that alliance 1 is failing in a spectacular fashion, especially if alliance 2 is ranked below alliance 1. And I'm sure you understand I'm not simply referring to score-wise failing.

It would also mean that despite having at least 20 more members than most alliances, despite having a huge roid, value and score lead for a good part of the round, despite napping the number 2 alliance for the same period, you still failed to get the number one spot.

So yeah. Munkee, I'm fine with both people and alliances that brim with arrogance, as long as there's actually something to be arrogant about. Fact of the matter is, CT is a mediocre alliance at best, and if you think your alliance is somehow more capable than others, you're even more misguided than I thought. But hey, you can always try to get 40 out of tag members next round, see if you can pull it off then! Try to get your members to actually stay all round next time, there's a good boy.



P.S.
No one cares about your "life drama".

[furball]

Originally Posted by Newt

Its like why did satyr, logbat, mortalp and sleepless bp with a known cheater? and all 4 of them are high profile, there's lots of others that would have given their left testicle to have bped with elviz - ofc he can walk into any alliance he wants to (that has his friends inside it)

Which begs the question, why can elviz walk into any alliance he wants to?


There's a lot of talk from HCs about being opposed to cheating but until elviz is unable to find an alliance, it remains total bullshit.

Originally Posted by Munkee

rofl 90 members in ct priv chan.. sorry but i think you may have misinterpreted the activity due to my life drama which was main topic for the entirety of round 24.

When you can pull some facts from ure arses this thread will be of some use, but when you have morons "counting joins" producing proverbial bullshit from every orifice they can on to an internet forum theres not much chance of anyone agreeing on a "political summary".

It remains, on the other hand, a pretty good indicator of support planets - since it goes without saying that the MHs can't catch everyone. Given how quickly CT filled up their tag again after kicking a shedload of people, it's certainly food for thought.

Originally Posted by isildurx

I dont think its overly hard to get a good planet as a HC, it might be harder however than as a normal member. If your a scanner ur fked regardless ofc.

I don't really agree.

The busiest time for a HC is usually the evenings, at the same time as an attack goes up. You don't always have as much time to pick targets or team up with others on big targets. Further, you're in a position where you're often a lot more selfless - e.g. 3-fleet defending more often or taking crappy targets to get all the planets in a wave covered. The contrast is the position of normal members who have all evening to plan out their attacks and sort out teamups. They're also often the people who have the elite BPs and can hold onto their roids more easily through in-gal defence.

[JonnyBGood]

It's not difficult at all, you just need to put in slightly more time than you would otherwise. Finishing top five or something is obviously not going to be easy to accomplish, but realistically finishing top five has always been about luck and connections.

[newt]

just look at urwins, weren't all/most of their top members hcs/officers?

[[DDK]gm]

well theres hc/officers that def whore, personaly i dont have much spare time to put into my planet as i have to work, any spare time i have gets used with the alliance and i will not comment on the urwins hc, yogi can comment on that if he wishes.

[Mzyxptlk]

HCs and officers can indeed be classified in 2 categories, on one hand there's the people who (at least partly) use their alliance to get their planet a higher rank (Macaroth would be a good example), on the other there's the people who put their planets on low priority or even play as a scanner (I seem to be inable to think of any examples but you get the point).

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

HCs and officers can indeed be classified in 2 categories, on one hand there's the people who (at least partly) use their alliance to get their planet a higher rank (Macaroth would be a good example), on the other there's the people who put their planets on low priority or even play as a scanner (I seem to be inable to think of any examples but you get the point).

Macaroth is a rather crap example to be honest.

Yes, some people have gotten the impression that he's a defsink, but why shouldnt he be allowed defense like everyone else in our alliance? Are we just gonna say at one point, nah, we've defended you so much that we cant defend you anymore?

Most of the times he has incs the incs have been handed to others (when there has been others around) sometimes I've even been called to dc his incs etc.

So please, I think its rather unfair to say that Mac has been using the alliance to get his planet a higher rank. He's been scanning for the alliance the last 3 rounds, and been dc'ing constantly _EVERY_ night each round.

Mz, I would like to offer you a chance to join TGV next round to see how we do things instead of making prejudiced accusations based on 1) disgruntled members that have left the alliance because they have been just that, disgruntled, and 2) based on things you saw in a private channel we already knew was bugged.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

HCs and officers can indeed be classified in 2 categories, on one hand there's the people who (at least partly) use their alliance to get their planet a higher rank (Macaroth would be a good example), on the other there's the people who put their planets on low priority or even play as a scanner (I seem to be inable to think of any examples but you get the point).

Certainly when I was with VGN none of the HCs prioritised their planets (me, _are_ and RobTD). We were high on amps and spent most of our times as supplementary scanners, as I recall.

[jerome]

it's not impossible to just play a normal round and still HC at the same time you know. infact, i've got a sneaky suspicion it's very easy considering the actual planet management part takes very little time.

[isildurx]

Problem is many HCs get a 'parental feeling' towards their alliance and do things thats better for their alliance than their planet, or atleast they think it is.

[newt]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

on the other there's the people who put their planets on low priority or even play as a scanner (I seem to be inable to think of any examples but you get the point).

jupp, mitre, newt.

There you go. jupp finished top100 but heh, like hell did he put any effort in at all beyond attacking regularly once the war started. Or if you prefer mitre - gave his life to excessum and didnt give a shit about his planet (top500?). Compare that to urwins hc -_-

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Newt

Its like why did satyr, logbat, mortalp and sleepless bp with a known cheater? and all 4 of them are high profile, there's lots of others that would have given their left testicle to have bped with elviz - ofc he can walk into any alliance he wants to (that has his friends inside it)

Heh i didnt think he would cheat but i'll definitely bp with them again any round

[Mzyxptlk]

"I didn't think he would cheat"

Excuse me while I lol.

Originally Posted by Kargool

Mz, I would like to offer you a chance to join TGV next round to see how we do things instead of making prejudiced accusations based on 1) disgruntled members that have left the alliance because they have been just that, disgruntled, and 2) based on things you saw in a private channel we already knew was bugged.

Wow, what an excellent attempt at recuitment.

On-topic:

And well done NewDawn. You've taken a lot of abuse of the years so it's nice to see you're still putting the effort in.

CT were unfortunate this round. But I do remember a conversation I had with aNgRyDuCk at the beginning of the round telling him that the Ministry lot would leave the tag before round end. Although, admittedly that's when I thought smdio was going to be playing; they're not all bad beans.

Urwins did not too badly for an alliance that was starting from scratch, essentially. I'm sure that the use of Cabeza helped them ease into the round. Can't say I'm a big fan of every single member of the command team, but most of them are ok.

[jerome]

smdio did play, in angels.

Originally Posted by jerome

smdio did play, in angels.

Damn. Now there's a missed opportunity.

[qebab]

When you play as HC, you will usually feel obliged to put the planets of your members ahead of your own due to the simple reason that you know you won't quite over your planet being bashed/shit, but you want to keep morale high in your memberbase and they won't necessarily hold the same views on being roided every day.

[jupp]

Originally Posted by Kenny

Urwins did not too badly for an alliance that was starting from scratch, essentially. I'm sure that the use of Cabeza helped them ease into the round. Can't say I'm a big fan of every single member of the command team, but most of them are ok.

Cabeza = eXcessum :-p

and yes, we wouldnt be able to play without Lockhead and Cabeza but that is the same for alliances and their tools i think

[newt]

Is kenny the guy that joined eXcessum and left pre-round cos we were shite, then joined CT and angels? spying on one of them, can't remember which. Or is that kenneh? or are they the same person? or is this forums kenny the IRC kenneh?

Time we cleared this one up once and for all

Originally Posted by Newt

Is kenny the guy that joined eXcessum and left pre-round cos we were shite, then joined CT and angels? spying on one of them, can't remember which. Or is that kenneh? or are they the same person? or is this forums kenny the IRC kenneh?

Time we cleared this one up once and for all

I'm IRC Kenny too. I don't know who this 'Kenneh' person is, but he's not I. I was in ROCK this round, start til finish.

It was a fairly inactive round for me to be honest... my laptop gave in a few weeks into the round so I couldn't access the game from my girlfriend's. I still had an awesome bomber fleet though, so still deffed when needed! Got it back now though, good as new.

And no Newt, I didn't join eXcessum, CT or Angels. Sorry!

Originally Posted by jupp

Cabeza = eXcessum :-p

and yes, we wouldnt be able to play without Lockhead and Cabeza but that is the same for alliances and their tools i think

Weird. I coulda sworn 'VS' went to Urwins.

Mind you, I seem to remember Lockhead telling me this now

[Ceadrath]

congrats nd on the win and all that jazz, can't say that i paid much attention to you before the last week or so in the race for #1, somewhat shortsighted of me perhaps.

as far as the nap with ct went, as much as a fair few of us bitched and moaned about it for half the round we wouldn't have been where we were with 2 weeks to go without it. Urwins sure as hell wouldn't have lasted the round to be where they were if we'd have had the sort of incoming ct had for most of the round, i dont really know why it was dropped in the end, though a significant portion of our members had been calling for it for a while. i dont seem to remember any significant incomings just before it was dropped either, so whether that was a factor or not is debatable.

as far as hc's and top planets go, unless they scan its only natural that players who spend more time on the game are going to have better planets, which then gets you in the vicious circle of the more roids you have the more incomings you get, the more defence you need, the louder the squels of defleeching hc's is. unless they go scanner then i would much rather they had a high valued planet, its more useful to the alliance than them not sending themselves def and having shit fleets as a result. it is ofcourse a fine line between getting a 'normal' amount of defence for their contribution and becoming flagships.

a case in point, i know yogi recieved a fair few def fleets early to mid round, but he was also a top contributer in regards to def sent as well, and worked his arse off for his alliance to the extent of letting himself get roided in favour of sending others fleets later in the round. he earnt all the defence he got, so i have no trouble justifying the amount of defence he was sent, even if it did seem rather high to outsiders.

[ElAlan]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Macaroth is a rather crap example to be honest.

Yes, some people have gotten the impression that he's a defsink, but why shouldnt he be allowed defense like everyone else in our alliance? Are we just gonna say at one point, nah, we've defended you so much that we cant defend you anymore?

Sorry what now? def like everyone else, that loltastic, i know i saw jgps of mac 5 times last round 4 of those times 6 waves covered one time 5 of 6 waves covered (and ofc thats only jgps i saw when i was CT at the time attacking), one of these times i counted over 35 def fleets verses 9 attacking and each of these times i deliberately attacked another tgv and ya know what..shocker!! pretty much no def, maybe one wave out of 4/3 covered

Basically you keep kidding yourself on as much as you like but everyone and their dog knows mac is a massif def leech...

[newt]

I think thats an argument for why hcs, that aren't scanning, should have decent planets - perhaps top100. But when you see most of their top members as hcs/officers, one being someone that joined a very dodgy bp, and just generally comes over as a dodgy character in pa, eyebrows are gonna be raised.

While I'm talking about logbat, I'll always remember a fun argument we had pre-round. He 'put' one of his groupies into exc, we wanted to know his bp info. Logbat went crazy about that, and forced mossel not to tell us. We insisted he did, then logbat did a huge speach along the lines of "some players want their coords hidden and are used to playing that way, its not fair on them if you get told" - so before tick 72 we found out it was dreamy (urwins hc) he was hiding. And we also found out before t72 logbat's bp info which mortalp had been forced, no doubt by logbat, to hold back. Logbat was more than fine with us knowing normal urwins' members coords though, just so long as they werent hc going for a glorious top10 finish.

Two points there really urwins hc being selfish (point out that yogi didn't care cos he's awesome) and how ****ing naive logbat is. Did he really think we wouldn't find out the info before tick72 anyway? moron.

[Ceadrath]

i guess if he can force people not to divulge their bp info then its between the two of them and the alliance in question, its a matter of loyalties. niave perhaps in thinking that the information wouldn't come out in time anyway, but doing what he can to 'protect' the identities of players who by virtue of being in a position to have an infuence over an alliance, and whos inactivy due to being bashed from t72 would have a negative infuence on said alliance is hardly surprising or to his discredit.

I dont think logbat ran any of his own def this round either, i dont remember him getting vasts amount of incoming for a start and he had pretty much no impact on the day to day running of the alliance, so him whoring def for himself, (if thats what your saying) is pretty unlikely. i know his gal covered far more of his incs than the alliance did, which is a similar situation with a fair few of the top ranked urwins, as in most alliances.

EDIT: looking at all of the hc i think only yogi and logbat finished in the top 100, and both of them dropped alot of ranks in the later round. The only person who id say had an inordinatly high amount of defence for a sustained period of time was Recluse in the last week when ND seemed intent on roiding him. And even that could be argued as understandable due to the huge amount of xp ND would have gained off him by landing, allowing the main competition to land 1mill+ score gains on him when they were the main competition would have been bad.