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21 Jun 2005, 11:15
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#101
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
I've never seen him [Howard] playing on racism for votes, can you give any examples?
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The 2001 federal election. It was undoubtedly focused on asylum seekers, and Howard won the election by appealing to racism.
http://www.australianpolitics.com/fo...03guardian.htm for more details
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Finally free!
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21 Jun 2005, 13:37
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#102
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mmm.. pills
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,152
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
Would that mean australia joining NAFTA? first ive heard about this. Surely being more involved in asia would be the thing for australia?
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I really don't know, but from reading about NAFTA I'd say some of the goals are simular. As for Asia, they're in the middle of negotiating a FTA right now, which is why I'm geussing they didn't want to follow up on the Chen Yonglin issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The 2001 federal election. It was undoubtedly focused on asylum seekers, and Howard won the election by appealing to racism.
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I can't see how not wanting people who break the system on our shores is racist, that's just a play by the media to get a spin on the issue. It just so happens that a larger percentage of them are of asian origin.
We try to be a multicultural nation, but there are some aspects of different cultures that we do not want to encourage here that are major issues for Australia. Two examples would be a lot of the drug-smuggling rings and Triads that already exist in many areas, and such an uncontrolled importation of immigrants would only allow such things to flourish.
BTW, I see it ironic that The Guardian in that article is calling our mainstream press 'Tabloid', especially when I'd so readilly hand it the same label.
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21 Jun 2005, 13:41
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#103
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
people who don't become worldleader suck more than people who do become worldleader.
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21 Jun 2005, 14:01
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#104
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Australia was built by criminal immigrants. You need them. :-p
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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21 Jun 2005, 15:40
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#105
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
I can't see how not wanting people who break the system on our shores is racist, that's just a play by the media to get a spin on the issue. It just so happens that a larger percentage of them are of asian origin.
We try to be a multicultural nation, but there are some aspects of different cultures that we do not want to encourage here that are major issues for Australia. Two examples would be a lot of the drug-smuggling rings and Triads that already exist in many areas, and such an uncontrolled importation of immigrants would only allow such things to flourish.
BTW, I see it ironic that The Guardian in that article is calling our mainstream press 'Tabloid', especially when I'd so readilly hand it the same label.
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A starter for ten: can you accept that some Australians are racist? If you can't...
Anti-immigration policies naturally play on peoples' racist feelings, whether they are aware of them or not. Look at how Howard's coalition drained support from Pauline Hanson's One Nation party, while still looking 'Prime Ministerial' while he exploited the SIEV-X disaster. How about the Tampa? I think you're being a little bit naive if you think that Howard wasn't thinking about how he would look in the election.
How about his refusal to formally apologise to the Aborigines for their foul treatment during the early and mid-20th century? The stolen generation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC site on John Howard
Prime Minister John Howard is among the majority of Australians who oppose a collective apology for things which were done before they were born - though he says he is personally sorry for any wrongs committed
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On the face of it, this might make some sense. But it's not him apologising, it's the non-Abrorigine people of Australia apologising to one of their own ethnic groups, the one group that is actually native to the continent. Where's the sucking up of some pride? Make things right. I'm fairly sure that Blair apologised for plenty of things at the beginning of his first term.
Anyway I got a bit off-topic there, sorry. The Guardian as a tabloid?...nope! It's the Independent which has gone semi-tabloid.
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Finally free!
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21 Jun 2005, 16:22
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#106
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Obviously you are doing that thing, but I would point out that the main crime of many of those deported to Australia was being Irish or poor.
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Doing what thing? It was a light hearted comment reemphasised by the :-p
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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21 Jun 2005, 16:54
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#107
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mmm.. pills
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,152
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
A starter for ten: can you accept that some Australians are racist? If you can't...
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Of course I can, many of my best friends are racist, even my old man, but honestly if you lived where I do you'd understand why.
Quote:
Anti-immigration policies naturally play on peoples' racist feelings, whether they are aware of them or not. Look at how Howard's coalition drained support from Pauline Hanson's One Nation party, while still looking 'Prime Ministerial' while he exploited the SIEV-X disaster. How about the Tampa? I think you're being a little bit naive if you think that Howard wasn't thinking about how he would look in the election.
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Once again, this is hardly a revelation. Any leader or political figure will seek to exploit such issues in order to gain popularity, that's just politics 101. What really matters is how the leader handles critical events during their term, to this extent I think he's done a fantastic job.
Quote:
How about his refusal to formally apologise to the Aborigines for their foul treatment during the early and mid-20th century? The stolen generation?
On the face of it, this might make some sense. But it's not him apologising, it's the non-Abrorigine people of Australia apologising to one of their own ethnic groups, the one group that is actually native to the continent. Where's the sucking up of some pride? Make things right. I'm fairly sure that Blair apologised for plenty of things at the beginning of his first term.
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Is this the point where I'm supposed to laugh or were you actually being serious? First person to ask me that question IRL gets a punch to the head, it just might knock some sense into it.
I'll go back to my first point for this one. Unless you live here, I can understand this issue being really hard to come grips with for international people, infact even people who do live here and reside in any one of our capital cities have a sheltered view of the indigenous population.
For starters, Aboriginal people are very well off. They get more benifits from the government than everyone else, how's that for racist? I'd say more of our tax dollars go toward supporting them and their various organisations than any other entity funded under the government. Then there is the Native Title Act, an abomination that resulted from the Mabo treaty. If you're not familier with this little number it gives indigenous people power to claim land that they decide some ambiguous ancestor used to have dreams on. This in itself would not be a major issue except that just about ANY land is open to claim, even one that is already an established residentual area or business if the claimee can come up with a convincing enough story that it has some cultural significance to their people. You want to talk about exploitation, they are king of that game, as it seems the majority of these Native Title claims have been over areas seen as profitable, yet they held no interest in the area prior to it becoming a commercial venture.
I have seen people lose their homes and business as a result of this silly treaty. Even our major tourist attractions have fallen prey, Uluru (AKA Ayers Rock), a big drawing card situated close to where I live is now under strict supervision of the indigenous local, and they want it all to themselves. Though tourists don't seem to respect it anyway, it was the decision of the local land owners that it would no longer be open to the public, no pictures and no climbing of the rock, a tradition that has been shared for well over 20 years.
As they are so well off, many don't seek to work at all, quite happy to live off benifits that any dole bludger would be jealous of. So what do they do with their spare time? Sit around camp fires throwing hate at the government for their mistreatment while boozing up the tax dollars, all for a cause their race has long forgotten the true meaning of.
Forgive me if there just doesn't seem to be much cause for a group hug, and I fully support Howard on this one. Just so you don't think I'm racist now, I'll tell you that many of their own people feel the same way.
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21 Jun 2005, 17:09
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#108
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Do aborigonals specifically get more benefits than anyone else? if so is it a time dependant act? or is it socio-economic targeting? I suspect that the native title act is done under some sort of judical review to ensure the claims aren't trivial. As for ayers rock, speaking as a non australian in touristy terms, its more interesting and attractive when 'attached' to the aborigonals than the 'other' australians.
Your views also seem very similar to those held in britain at various times for single mother etc, of late the gypsy/traveller communities have been the ones targeted by the tabloids.
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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21 Jun 2005, 17:23
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
No photographs of Ayers Rock seems stupid. No climbing, less so. tens of thousands of tourists repeatedly climbing the same rock would cause massive damage over time and it would eventual cease to be a tourist destination. to be honest, I would hardly call something that has been gonig on for 20 years a 'tradition' even though it is in the strictest sense of the word.
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The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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21 Jun 2005, 22:16
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#110
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I dunno...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Reading this thread has not provided the enlightenment I thought it would.
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He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
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21 Jun 2005, 23:46
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#111
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Obviously you are doing that thing, but I would point out that the main crime of many of those deported to Australia was being Irish or poor.
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And beeing both Irish and poor was a severe offense
Explorer just wasted my reply to MM, I will see if I bother writing it again.
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<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
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21 Jun 2005, 23:48
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#112
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
And beeing both Irish and poor was a severe offense
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they would have died otherwise.
your beliefs cloud you judgement.
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hi
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22 Jun 2005, 00:03
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#113
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
otherwise?? HELLO, a good million (if not more) died after the poteto crop failed, while the British Goverment did next to noting.
But hey, they were irish and poor
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22 Jun 2005, 00:07
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#114
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
otherwise?? HELLO, a good million (if not more) died after the poteto crop failed, while the British Goverment did next to noting.
But hey, they were irish and poor
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uh huh.
foreign nationals.
we did more than your biggotry will let you see.
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hi
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22 Jun 2005, 04:05
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#115
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
uh huh.
foreign nationals.
we did more than your biggotry will let you see.
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Oh great! The next thing you know the Irish and the English won't be getting along!
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Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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22 Jun 2005, 04:16
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#116
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
oi
shut it you
getting drunk on st patrick's day doesn't make you irish. it just makes you drunk
and far too often.
loud
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hi
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23 Jun 2005, 02:04
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#117
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: World Leaders That Don't Suck
pfft, irish.
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