Planetarion and round 10 features. Views mainly around the Alliance concept.

[Naris]

http://main.planetarion.com/portal/n...on&section=r10

Welcome
Posted by A2 at 10:41 on Monday 28th April 2003
The time has come to reveal some of the new features, some of that changes, and some of the major impacts the rewrite of Planetarion will have.

____________________________________________________

My personal views, opinions around several rnd 10 issues are plain and simple.

*1. Too MUCH changes from 1 round to another.

Advice: Alter the game alot more "slower" with new Ideas and Colour.

*2. AH is, well a nice feature for new alliances in pa, or those who play mainly for fun about the tag ranking.
While others don`t use it, the most experienced alliances that is, because of the security issue and own homepages, design etc.
In fact it`s very important for any alliances who like to keep things HIDDEN long as possible in a p2p round.

*3. Completely new ships, small,medium and large, some mention even that no formulas will be given out in public?.
I`ll say that half of the fun is to use the b.calc, when u are planing an attack some hours before a launch.
And not to mention if a Bc shall try to rescue their fellow "Alliance Members" without a handy b.calc.?.

*4. Those Alliances who already got a very large quality and not at least active memberlist, will get a HUGE advantage compare to other p2p rounds in pa. I`ll bet ten cent that one round will last alot shorter than usual with these major impacts of a completely new stratetic game of pa.
"If there are no initiative on the new ships in rnd 10."

*5 Ancient games like "Chess" etc. seldom alter at all, which make the game unique for millions of ppl.

Advice: Planetarion is an unique and almost perfect strategic space war game which are on-going 24/7 7 days a week.

"please dont change the game in that degree so ppl are not familier to the same game they have enjoyed for so many rounds.
Changes are good, changes are needed, but at least consider new ideas very carefully."

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Naris
Please dont change the game in that degree so ppl are not familier to the same game they have enjoyed for so many rounds.
Changes are good, changes are needed, but at least consider new ideas very carefully.

Couldn't have said it better. Unfortunately it seems it's already too late.

[Gerbie]

Everything you change affects the rest of the game. There were some problems to be fixed, the underlying code had to be rewritten. Best is to do it all at once. That also means you only have to advertise it once.

[Morden]

well at the end of the day, its the end result that counts.

pa in its current form is not very open or warm for new players, part of that is down to us, part of that was down to the game mechanics.

and in jolt and i suspect the creators eye's they arent bothered who plays the game as long as more people pay to play it, so it wouldnt be a big loss for most of the hardcore players who play currently to leave, and be replaced by more docile new players.

btw, I think you are very wrong about how long wars will last in round 10.

Put it this way; you wont be able to shoot off in the lead score wise(game mechanics) this will mean that the playing feild between the hardcore and the lightweights is much more level, and thus even if your winning a war, you cant grow that much faster than the people your beating, coupled with the fact that it will be easier to rebuild.....

will mean that wars in round 10 will be rather dull and tedious and end with most of the command teams of alliances burning out and quiting the game.

TBH some of the changes will do the game a lot of good, but they havent been balanced as well as needed imho, theres nothing wrong with making it easier for new players, but its damned pathetic to not reward active players for there activity.

::EDIT:: and unless things have changed from the last i saw, killing people isnt going to be easy mainly due to the amount of time you can attack for, or is everyone assuming that its the same boring 3 tick attacks?

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by Morden
::EDIT:: and unless things have changed from the last i saw, killing people isnt going to be easy mainly due to the amount of time you can attack for, or is everyone assuming that its the same boring 3 tick attacks?

I asume it will be different per fleet or player.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I reserve judgement until the beta.

[Aryn]

why do people assume they're going to hate this game?

[HobbieRogue4]

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
I reserve judgement until the beta.

Why? Everyone knows the 'Spinner observed Beta' is a crock and subject to constant and 'un-/ill-advised modifications' to the game thereafter.

At first I'd say you would be exposed to "Round 10 graphics" but then I realized that even those tend to change...

[Jackal2112]

From what I have seen and read about Round 10 I must say I am impressed.

If changes are to slow it's not worth waiting, I mean a round lasts already way to long so if things don't change more drastically it will just become a drag.

Since I am rather progressive, BRING ON THE CHANGES!!!

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Aryn
why do people assume they're going to hate this game?

For the same reason they usually hate every other PA clone.



It's not the game they've played and loved. Some for over 3 years.

[Tomkat]

I agree with Aryn. People should stop being so nostalgic, and stubborn about this.

The Planetarion Creators are simply trying to reposition their product into a new market.

<business terms>
It was a cash cow, sure. When people loved it and it had massive popularity. Since p2p though, it has drifted into the "dog" section of the Boston Matrix. This basically means the demand is going down, and will continue to do so.
</business terms>

If it stays where it is (game stays the same) then demand is going to get lower and lower.
They need to make this risk, otherwise PA will die.

Sure, it will attract new people. If we give it a chance, we might like it as well though. It's not fair to say the game will be crap, before we have even played it.

[Naris]

Originally posted by Tomkat
I agree with Aryn. People should stop being so nostalgic, and stubborn about this.

The Planetarion Creators are simply trying to reposition their product into a new market.

Sure, it will attract new people. If we give it a chance, we might like it as well though. It's not fair to say the game will be crap, before we have even played it.

- I said, Ì am only a tad {worried}..

I never used the word "crap,hate" etc.

Spinner did he ever mention a word about a B.Calc in rnd 10 of pa ?..

[DrunkenViking]

My idea would be to create a round 9.75 where you bring back the ships and stats from round 4(the funniest round i ever played) and ofcourse make that one free aswell.... But nothing like that will ever happend.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by DrunkenViking
My idea would be to create a round 9.75 where you bring back the ships and stats from round 4(the funniest round i ever played) and ofcourse make that one free aswell.... But nothing like that will ever happend.

This is why you're not running an online game.

[JC]

Originally posted by Naris

*1. Too MUCH changes from 1 round to another.

PA has been losing players consistantly for every round since r4, at the rate it is going PA will be dead soon, so drastic changes are needed if PA is to survive and grow with an influx of new players.

*3. Completely new ships, small,medium and large, some mention even that no formulas will be given out in public?.
I`ll say that half of the fun is to use the b.calc, when u are planing an attack some hours before a launch.
And not to mention if a Bc shall try to rescue their fellow "Alliance Members" without a handy b.calc.?.

Imo one of the probles with PA is that you know exactly what is going to happen 3 or 4 ticks before it actually does. You scan planets and know precisely what they have, you then stick all the info in a battle calc and it will tell you whether its worth attacking or not. This ruins a lot of the fun for me as there is no element of suspense or surprise when you attack or defend a planet.

*4. Those Alliances who already got a very large quality and not at least active memberlist, will get a HUGE advantage compare to other p2p rounds in pa. I`ll bet ten cent that one round will last alot shorter than usual with these major impacts of a completely new stratetic game of pa.
"If there are no initiative on the new ships in rnd 10."

You cant be too confident of that happening if you only bet 10 cent. Why not wait for the beta before stating things that have no facts to back them up.

*5 Ancient games like "Chess" etc. seldom alter at all, which make the game unique for millions of ppl.

Advice: Planetarion is an unique and almost perfect strategic space war game which are on-going 24/7 7 days a week.

As i said before, PA is stagnating as a game and people leave in droves every round, without change and hopefully the influx of new players this will bring there wont be a r11 and onwards.

[Naris]

Originally posted by JC
You cant be too confident of that happening if you only bet 10 cent. Why not wait for the beta before stating things that have no facts to back them up.

As i said before, PA is stagnating as a game and people leave in droves every round, without change and hopefully the influx of new players this will bring there wont be a r11 and onwards.

I know, it was only my thoughts. And I hope it will be great fun.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Saying there's been too many changes between the rounds is utterly false.

There have been 8.5 rounds that have all been the same. The only round that has SUBSTANTIALLY differed from any other round is Round 2. Why?

How do you grow in score? You roid. That's the only way you are able to grow now. You get roids to increase your resource production. It was that way in R1. In R3. In R4, 5,6,7,8,9, and now 9.5.

In R2, you were able to grow in two ways - roiding, and fleetstealing. You can't grow via fleetstealing anymore, even with Ziks - there may be some way to do it if you coordinate fleet captures very precisely, but it would be very unreliable.

There was another way to grow, using cargoships to steal resources wholesale, but that was clamped down on too.

The only changes have been cosmetic. The core growth factor of the game has NEVER changed, except for once. That is a major, MAJOR reason this game has grown so stale. It's BORING to simply roid, day after day. It's just a force of habit.

I hope they do radically change the game, for their sake. But if the core remains the same...PA will fail after round 10 or maybe 11. Mark my words

[Biggdogg]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Chitter

http://www.chickenchow.com/store.cfm?id=87&m=f&s=i&p=87


:/

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by Biggdogg
http://www.chickenchow.com/store.cfm?id=87&m=f&s=i&p=87

HERESY

BLASPHEMY

where the hell do you find this stuff? I'm tempted to get one :\

[Scoot951]

Anyone who thinks PA changes too fast.....words fail me here. I could sit a rock on a table and it would change more than PA has. I simply cannot comprehend the mindset of someone who cannot handle the superfical detail differences of one round to another.




PA has been the exact same game since it started, and that's why there's only around 2k people willing to pay for it now.

[Naris]

Originally posted by Scoot951
Anyone who thinks PA changes too fast.....words fail me here. I could sit a rock on a table and it would change more than PA has. I simply cannot comprehend the mindset of someone who cannot handle the superfical detail differences of one round to another.

PA has been the exact same game since it started, and that's why there's only around 2k people willing to pay for it now.

Alright thanks for your opinion, I mainly put the thread down here because I was not part of the alliance council earlier...

I`m also sure 2k more ppl felt the same, however do you not think there are other major reasons, than just a few changes game wise that ppl leaves in droves each rnd.

*Advertisement

Might be a key issue here even

[Jackal2112]

Originally posted by Tomkat

Sure, it will attract new people. If we give it a chance, we might like it as well though. It's not fair to say the game will be crap, before we have even played it.

Totally agree!

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Saying there's been too many changes between the rounds is utterly false.

Agreed.

I think the changes to PA either need to be minor (i.e. adjusting cap rates, ship stats, that sort of thing) - to keep the faithful happy, or change the whole damn game dramatically.

I fear the changes they make will fall akwardly between the two. It's going to upset people who enjoy aspect X of the game presently, but it's not going to bring anyone new in.

I think part of the problem lies is that people are so used to the game that their idea of a dramatic new idea is a new class of ship, or making ships fire twice per combat or something inane. Changing the game dramatically as you say could involve changing the resource dynamic completley (e.g. trade or something) or it could even involve some entirely new aspect of the game (like colonising or somesuch)

PA has done well to keep people's attention this long - I didn't even play Civ/Civ2/Alpha Centauri combined for this long, and with respect they were better games.

I fully expect Round 10 to be Round 3/4/5/6/etc with bells on. I hope I'm wrong.

[JC]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks

I fully expect Round 10 to be Round 3/4/5/6/etc with bells on.

Have you read the info on r10??

Whether or not it will be good is to be seen, but it will certainly be different from any previous rounds.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by JC
Whether or not it will be good is to be seen, but it will certainly be different from any previous rounds.

That'll be the bells.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by JC

Whether or not it will be good is to be seen, but it will certainly be different from any previous rounds.

Different topping maybe, but will it still be the plain old vanilla ice cream underneath?

You can cover it with chocolate syrup, sprinkles, cherries, nuts, whatever you like. It's still plain underneath. Unless there's a radical change to how players can grow in the game, it's the same old PA with different bells and whistles.

[JC]

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Unless there's a radical change to how players can grow in the game, it's the same old PA with different bells and whistles.

So you want to get rid of roids?

They might as well just make a completely new game and call it something different.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by JC
They might as well just make a completely new game and call it something different.

This is why I think PA is ultimately doomed.

Change you say? OMG, let's disband!

(Having said that, there's no reason to abolish roids completley)

[ComradeRob]

PA is a victim of its own past success. The original PA formula really did work. It had its flaws, but 180,000 players (give or take a few multies ) can't have been wrong.

However, since that time PA has been stuck in a timewarp. Other, better games have come along. Games which offer more features, different gameplay aspects, and generally do not suffer from the inherent problems that have plagued PA.

PA still works as a free game. R9.5 has been fun, but it's really not something that people can be reasonably expected to pay for any more. So, either r10 really improves the game, or the game will finally shuffle off into the history books, from where it earned a reprieve under the new ownership of SimTech/Jolt.

I actually think that the fundamental thing that the creators need to worry about is fun. The slavish loyalty to the old PA formula has seen the game go through various design contortions in an attempt to balance the fun aspect against the perceived 'unfairness' of the game. The end result is a game which has had many of its more fun features stripped out in the name of 'balance', and all manner of new limits added which, while making the game marginally better for some have made the game much less enjoyable for a great many more.

If r10 is fun, I don't think anyone will care if it's a totally different game. I think that if the creators have made any mistake it is that they have tried to preserve too much of the old gameplay style, instead of branching off into something radically new. Many of the people in the current PA community came here from other games, and are simply people who enjoy playing online games, particularly in a multiplayer/team environment. It doesn't have to be exactly like PA to get us hooked. A revolutionary new space strategy game would, in my opinion, be more likely to attract existing and new customers than an update of the same old formula.

[Scoot951]

Originally posted by JC
So you want to get rid of roids?

They might as well just make a completely new game and call it something different.

They should.

[AlbinoSquirrel]

Originally posted by JC
So you want to get rid of roids?

They might as well just make a completely new game and call it something different.

Where the hell did you get that from? That's completely idiotic. No, I don't want to get rid of roids, you utter nimrod. I want something ADDED, something new, something different. Otherwise it's the same old **** in a different can.

[JC]

Dont get your knickers in a twist i was only asking a question.

You said...

Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Unless there's a radical change to how players can grow in the game

Now atm PA players grow by collecting roids. I presumed by you saying you want this radically changed you may have meant getting rid of roids, but obviously you didnt, my fault for not being a mind reader.

[Hicks]

Originally posted by JC
Dont get your knickers in a twist i was only asking a question.

You said...



Now atm PA players grow by collecting roids. I presumed by you saying you want this radically changed you may have meant getting rid of roids, but obviously you didnt, my fault for not being a mind reader.

I think he was angling at the removal of exponential growth, which is the biggest flaw in Planetarion game design. The bigger planets grow more quickly and there's very little that smaller planets can do to catch up.

There should be some form of catch up effect where players with less asteroids get more resources from them.

Originally posted by Hicks
I think he was angling at the removal of exponential growth, which is the biggest flaw in Planetarion game design. The bigger planets grow more quickly and there's very little that smaller planets can do to catch up.

There should be some form of catch up effect where players with less asteroids get more resources from them.

kind of like in a race came if ur behind you move faster to catch up

[Hicks]

More like the way poor countries are able to grow more quickly than rich countries with a similar capital investment. But yea yours works to

[MrL_JaKiri]

There is something in r10 which may well help.