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6 Jul 2010, 23:25
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#1
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
There seem to be a lot of newer player getting the research lab system mixed up. A lot of people seem to think they have to build 20 research labs instead of keeping it at 20% of current constructions.
I can't honestly think of any reason to have more than 10 research labs. So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?
Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
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Planetarion veteran
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6 Jul 2010, 23:38
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#2
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
It says 20% right on the package, not 20. I do not wish to cater to people who refuse to read. By the way, just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't any. Stop telling us how to play the game.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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7 Jul 2010, 10:50
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#3
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
The game shouldn't stop you from making a mistake, but it should warn you before you do so.
I can't see warnings as a bad thing in the various cases it would gimp your planet, however I think the only issue would be that it needs time spent developing it.
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7 Jul 2010, 11:41
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#4
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
No. No, it should not. If I choose to build nothing but spiders, I don't want the game yammering every time I place an order for more. If I research scans and nothing else, I don't want to see messages recommending that "Hey, dude, get some ships yo!". If I build dists only or FCs only or mines only, I don't want big red exclamation marks in my screen telling me of the folly of my ways. Don't treat us like kids. Give us the responsibility to make the choices and then we'll deal with the consequences.
And so what if someone builds 20 ship yards or reslabs? Do you honestly think things like that would ruin someone's round? It doesn't, it's a minor annoyance at worst.
(Some numbers: 181 people with more than 10 reslabs, 38 with more than 20, 4 with more than 30, 0 with more than 40.)
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Appocomaster; 7 Jul 2010 at 15:39.
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7 Jul 2010, 12:59
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#5
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Always MadcowS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Again an attempt to explain how to make the game more accessible to new players which is bashed down by an über pro pa gamer who doesn't want to be told how to play the game....
PA is so funny..
Stop moaning and don't yell on any small suggest that wouldnt even affect you. I don't understand why you even oppose this suggestion as you clearly aren't a noob but this suggestion was made to stop noobs making mistakes.
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7 Jul 2010, 13:12
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#6
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
There seem to be a lot of newer player getting the research lab system mixed up. A lot of people seem to think they have to build 20 research labs instead of keeping it at 20% of current constructions.
I can't honestly think of any reason to have more than 10 research labs. So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?
Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
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Your 'research' shows that the method at which people are told they need 20% of current constructions in research labs for maximum bonus needs to be changed. Not that there needs to be a limit, people going different strats may need more.. I built 14 in a previous round and got laughed at for doing it (even though i was top3 most the round ).
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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7 Jul 2010, 15:11
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#7
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
While I cannot agree with the flaming attitude taken by Mzyxptlk, I do agree with his argument that just because a newbie can make a tactical error isn't sufficient reason to limit the flexibility of the game in a way that does not stop an exploit.
The simple fact that a good reason cannot be given why someone would want to build a lot of labs/factories/other construction type, doesn't mean such a reason doesn't exist, or might not exist in the future.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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7 Jul 2010, 15:25
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#8
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
The game shouldn't stop you from making a mistake, but it should warn you before you do so.
I can't see warnings as a bad thing in the various cases it would gimp your planet, however I think the only issue would be that it needs time spent developing it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Korsan, we're not talking about some obscure subtext deep in the ****ing manual here, dude. The explanation of what the thing is doing is right below the thing you're building. If you're going to sit there and not read what it is you're building, then I really can't be ****ing arsed to help you not be a retard.
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It could be worthwhile developing an Ingame help/prompt that can also be turned on or off ingame via preferences so it helps new players keep playing PA whilst not annoying experience players.
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7 Jul 2010, 15:44
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
It could be worthwhile developing an Ingame help/prompt that can also be turned on or off ingame via preferences so it helps new players keep playing PA whilst not annoying experience players.
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You mean like this?
Research Laboratory
Increases the efficiency of your researchers by a percentage decided by your ratio of Research Labs / Total Constructions. Maximum bonus is reached at 20%, which you can obtain by having 2 Research Laboratories for every 10 Constructions.
[ Always Hide/Show Descriptions]
if the games tells you quite clearly it caps at 20%, and people still build over that number, Research Labs are far from their worst problem.
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7 Jul 2010, 16:15
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#10
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
You mean like this?
Research Laboratory
Increases the efficiency of your researchers by a percentage decided by your ratio of Research Labs / Total Constructions. Maximum bonus is reached at 20%, which you can obtain by having 2 Research Laboratories for every 10 Constructions.
[Always Hide/Show Descriptions]
if the games tells you quite clearly it caps at 20%, and people still build over that number, Research Labs are far from their worst problem.
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I was meaning something even a bit more user friendly for the new player that explained the implications like a working tutorial in some games like Age of Empires.
but also for example the population page could maybe be adapted / seperate one for constructions.
Area Output (change) Time (change)
Mining
Metal: 100,000 (0)
Crystal: 100,000 (0)
Eonium: 100,000 (0)
Research (RP) 164 RP (0) 42 ticks (0)
Construction 155 CU (0) 3 ticks (0)
Max Alert 90 (0)
that if you move the population it shows a predicted change which is more convient than going to http://game.planetarion.com/manual.p...rn=13643812265
and grabbing a calculator to work out predicted changes in pop
But one for constructions aswell where it could show you a forecast of your mining, research, security,
Where the game can work out if you queued a res lab. It can forecast your new Research points per tick
Where if you say queue a sec centre it will give an estimated new alert level once completed. rather than going to the manual and grabing a standard calculator to crunch the numbers. (this might be going off topic to a degree)
I'm happy with the status quo where you can build as many research/factories/amps/dists/sec as you like... However is there any harm in making it more user friendly for the new player?
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7 Jul 2010, 16:37
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#11
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Korsan, we're not talking about some obscure subtext deep in the ****ing manual here, dude. The explanation of what the thing is doing is right below the thing you're building. If you're going to sit there and not read what it is you're building, then I really can't be ****ing arsed to help you not be a moron.
Obviously I am not calling you a moron. All I'm saying is that I think it's bloody goddamn stupid if people (in general!) do not read about the stuff they're doing.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 7 Jul 2010 at 16:48.
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8 Jul 2010, 10:04
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#12
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Ex-Head Multihunter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
mz, you are right. even n00bs can read...
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11 Jul 2010, 14:28
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#13
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
The simple fact that a good reason cannot be given why someone would want to build a lot of labs/factories/other construction type, doesn't mean such a reason doesn't exist, or might not exist in the future.
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I built 13 this round. As xan totalitarianism I found I needed them to keep up with the HCT research at the start of the round.
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Ascendancy
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12 Jul 2010, 10:01
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#14
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
mz, you are right. even n00bs can read...
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When has he not been right
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1 Aug 2010, 23:55
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#15
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
why not just change the way it works and each res lab adds 3-5% to total RU. So the more you make the faster research becomes.
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2 Aug 2010, 02:48
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster
why not just change the way it works and each res lab adds 3-5% to total RU. So the more you make the faster research becomes.
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/me KISSes MrLobster
(there'd still be people building 20+ of them though, when 10 would probably suffice)
Last edited by Patrikc; 2 Aug 2010 at 02:54.
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2 Aug 2010, 07:29
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
an indication of your research lab efficiency should be easy to implement.
It would show a percentage next to the res lab construction, and would be easy to understand... you could even add color (green above 80%, red below 20%, yellow in between.
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<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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2 Aug 2010, 11:00
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#18
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
an indication of your research lab efficiency should be easy to implement.
It would show a percentage next to the res lab construction, and would be easy to understand... you could even add color (green above 80%, red below 20%, yellow in between.
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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2 Aug 2010, 11:09
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#19
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
why not just give each planet the perfect number of constructions, a perfectly balanced fleet and PL attacks to all the best targets for them. then, all the noobs will win the game without even doing anything and love it a stay. all PAs problems will be fixed and the world will be a better place.
alternatively, do something worthwhile which will actually increase the player base. These constant suggestions of making the game easier to more noobs stay are all a waste of time. making the game easier will not bring in new players, making the game more interesting will bring in AND retain new players.
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2 Aug 2010, 11:49
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#20
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate
These constant suggestions of making the game easier to more noobs stay are all a waste of time. making the game easier will not bring in new players, making the game more interesting will bring in AND retain new players.
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true words
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"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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2 Aug 2010, 17:11
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: g-town, Vienna, AT
Posts: 40
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
... So why not limit the amount of research labs you can build to 10?
Obviously, if there is some change to the techtree or anything else, it would have to be adjusted.
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I would prefer another solution to this problem:
If you already have build the maximum # of structures, you should be able to remove one of your choice for the costs of building the last structure so that you then can build another type of structure, where you again have to pay the same costs.
This would allow everyone to correct errors he did in the early stages of the game ... and allow building up to 20% research labs ( 50 of 250 ) until he has researched everything he needs without having to ask someone to use structurekillers on his planet to get rid of them later in the game
MfG, MEX
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3 Aug 2010, 06:17
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 34
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Re: Limit the numbers of research labs you can build
I agree with making the game simpler to understand - that doesn't mean make it easier necessarily.
Controlling multiple/every facet of the game forcing people to play in virtually the same way is not the way to go about it either.
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