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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 14:47   #1
wu_trax
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poker

are any of you playing it? It seems to be pretty much 'in' here right now. I started playing at partypoker a few weeks ago and it's kind of fun, even though im still at -20$. (I got 50$ for free to start with from some random website)
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 14:51   #2
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Re: poker

I dont gamble ... Had a problem a while back with Obsessive Complusion ... But love play Home Poker

But saying that Black Jack is more my game, but i know several people that do play poker online and some of them that are good at it as well ...
I hope u get that money back though ..good luck bud
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:05   #3
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Re: poker

Silly trend for common people.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:14   #4
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphi
But saying that Black Jack is more my game





PS Yeah, I've been playing for about four years plus now. Not a huge amount over the last month or so but I'm getting back into the swing of things again!
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:14   #5
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Re: poker

A fair few of us have been playing for quite some time.

Dace did particularly well, as did forest, stifler and a few other pa/forum users.

I played quite casually on ladbrokes so would quite often bump into dace so to speak. I haven't played for some down (lack of time) but it's certainly fun. Once you understand the game you will enjoy it. Just don't waste stupid money on it.

Personally I don't like partypoker (I have an account there) but the best poker site for overall feel and well just in general non shittyness is Ladbrokes. The ladbrokes poker account can also double up as an account to bet on the football, horses etc so it has two uses.

Anyway have fun :-)

:edit:

I actually played poker when I was back in Kent at the weekend, and won it. I was pleased. Was the first time I had played face to face poker in circa 6 months. Was nice to play for a few hours, booze, fags and kebabs. What a lifestyle.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:16   #6
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Re: poker

HOW THE **** CAN I HAVE WON THE MOST MONEY PLAYING POKER AND I DON'T GET A MENTION? DO I NEED A ****ING ATTENTION WHORING THREAD EVERY ****ING TIME I WIN SOMETHING TO GET SOME BLOODY CREDIT?




Actually I have no idea how much forest/stifler won but I beat dace at least
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:37   #7
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
HOW THE **** CAN I HAVE WON THE MOST MONEY PLAYING POKER AND I DON'T GET A MENTION? DO I NEED A ****ING ATTENTION WHORING THREAD EVERY ****ING TIME I WIN SOMETHING TO GET SOME BLOODY CREDIT?




Actually I have no idea how much forest/stifler won but I beat dace at least :(


The only thing you beat is the rest of the world's population to the front of the "stand in this que if you're a retard with the person nearest the front being the biggest retard in the retard que" que.*









*true story
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:45   #8
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Re: poker

Jonny is very insecure.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:51   #9
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Jonny is very insecure.
I just vibrated right off my seat






PS You misspelt queue dace, not once, not twice, but thrice.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:56   #10
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Re: poker

www dot pkr dot com

(cant post links )

new 3D online poker game, its pretty good.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 15:58   #11
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbg
HOW THE **** CAN I HAVE WON THE MOST MONEY PLAYING POKER AND I DON'T GET A MENTION? DO I NEED A ****ING ATTENTION WHORING THREAD EVERY ****ING TIME I WIN SOMETHING TO GET SOME BLOODY CREDIT?
If you don't tell me you win, how can I give you credit. ;/
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 16:01   #12
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
If you don't tell me you win, how can I give you credit. ;/
I don't like bragging but I like credit








About 15k.






Also presuming you're not fascinated by flashing lights and are actually interested in the money use www.worldpokerexchange.com

Why?

Rake-free!
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 16:12   #13
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't like bragging but I like credit
How humble








Quote:
Originally Posted by jbg
About 15k.
Well i'll be bummed


You were busy when you didn't have a job. In fact I should be unemployed in roughly 4-6 weeks. In which case means that I shall be playing poker. It will be interesting, I am going to try and have a serious crack at it.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 16:33   #14
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Re: poker

Was that 15k over a longish period of time or from 5 or so big tournaments JBG?

I didn't know you even played poker that much, let alone won that amount of money. Well done. I thought Dace was the one who'd won the most (after going hugely in debt overall he eventually went back into the black).
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 16:54   #15
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Personally I don't like partypoker (I have an account there) but the best poker site for overall feel and well just in general non shittyness is Ladbrokes. The ladbrokes poker account can also double up as an account to bet on the football, horses etc so it has two uses.
I'm only there because i got those 50$ for free and I'll get another 100 after 5000 raked hands, which seems pretty nice. I don't think I'm ever going to put any of my own money in it though.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 16:58   #16
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Personally I don't like partypoker (I have an account there) but the best poker site for overall feel and well just in general non shittyness is Ladbrokes. The ladbrokes poker account can also double up as an account to bet on the football, horses etc so it has two uses.
Do you know if Ladbrokes allow you to deposit / withdraw cash into / from your online account through their branches?
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 19:03   #17
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Do you know if Ladbrokes allow you to deposit / withdraw cash into / from your online account through their branches?
oh what a brilliant idea that would be for you a gambling addict with crippling debts to start playing poker ...
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 20:05   #18
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Re: poker

everest is quite good
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 20:20   #19
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh what a brilliant idea that would be for you a gambling addict with crippling debts to start playing poker ...
I've been playing poker for years. I'm just curious as to whether Ladbrokes offer the same services as William Hill (who I normally use).

Your concern is appreciated though.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 20:22   #20
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I've been playing poker for years. I'm just curious as to whether Ladbrokes offer the same services as William Hill (who I normally use).

Your concern is appreciated though.
I will expect it to be returned when i finally manage to wrest myself free of smoking
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 20:31   #21
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Re: poker

Im playing regularly. Havent won that much but a couple of hundred dollars atleast.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 21:05   #22
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Re: poker

I don't play poker for money, I go to the free websites, but am usually pretty good. The only poker I'd play in real life is strip poker with my fiance, but she's opposed to the idea for some reason...
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 21:13   #23
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I don't play poker for money, I go to the free websites, but am usually pretty good. The only poker I'd play in real life is strip poker with my fiance, but she's opposed to the idea for some reason...
she's a man.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 21:16   #24
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Re: poker

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
she's a man.
We're not talking about your love life here Yahwe.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 22:19   #25
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
oh what a brilliant idea that would be for you a gambling addict with crippling debts to start playing poker ...
Yes.

I used to work for them and they will take your money however they can.
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Unread 29 Sep 2006, 22:22   #26
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Re: poker

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Originally Posted by wu_trax
are any of you playing it? It seems to be pretty much 'in' here right now. I started playing at partypoker a few weeks ago and it's kind of fun, even though im still at -20$. (I got 50$ for free to start with from some random website)
Personally i only play poker in smoky rooms with plenty of beers and a load of mates. Its the only way imo.

Bets tip i ever had was that pro players (playing hold-em) play around 30% of all hands.
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 14:49   #27
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Re: poker

PS I dont know if Im allowed to post this, you know im not an advertising bot
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 15:50   #28
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
Bets tip i ever had was that pro players (playing hold-em) play around 30% of all hands.


:rolleyes:
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 21:58   #29
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Re: poker

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Originally Posted by Dace
obviously not aimed at pro's such as yourself Dace
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 22:30   #30
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Re: poker

Dace plays 100% of his hands and then proceeds to complain about it in #forums when they don't all work!
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 23:10   #31
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Re: poker

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Originally Posted by Saphi
I But saying that Black Jack is more my game
You do know that you cant actually win in the long-term unless youre counting cards, yeah?
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Unread 30 Sep 2006, 23:14   #32
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
You do know that you cant actually win in the long-term unless youre counting cards, yeah?
and even then, the casino gods usually see quite quickly your doing it throught the size of your bets (then comes the kicking out and intimidation bit). better than counting cards alone is having a team of card counters working together...
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 00:13   #33
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Was that 15k over a longish period of time or from 5 or so big tournaments JBG?
About half of it was from three big tournaments. The rest is from cash games, small tourney results, sngs etc. I have a lot of friends who play poker in real life, and some at fairly high levels, and I talk about it a fair bit with them so I guess I never bother talking about it online that much.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 00:30   #34
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Re: poker

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
so I guess I never bother talking about it online that much.
for which we thank you
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 01:14   #35
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Re: poker

When you see online gaming firms appear and grow to be worth billions in next to no time, clearly making filty amounts of profit alarm bells have surely got to be ringing!? Where do you think these companies are getting their money? Perhaps, just perhaps, their profit comes from taking people's money? If their business is making a profit, then the very nature of their business means that their average client is losing money to them for nothing in return... yet people still join these sites!? Lets not forget the frequent news stories of people losing 10s of thousands to these sites, often stealing from their employer to do so, or raiding family savings etc.

"It won't happen to me, I have skill, I'm different etc." Keep beliving that, everyone's luck runs out sooner or later.

If you're in it for the fun of playing without betting money, or only using the free $50 or whatever to play then thats fine, but if you're in it to make money you might at first, which is how you get addicted, but in the long run you'll get the shaft. If you want to make 'free' money then there are things like ISAs, fixed term no access saving accounts where you can get like 10+% annual interest. If you wanna make more than that then look to the markets and bonds; even a simple FTSE tracker can make you a fair amount of money. If you'd put 2 grand in a FTSE tracker 2 years ago, today it'd be worth about 3 grand (depite the market being flat (net) for the last 6 months). If you still fancy a little more risk you could look at the emerging markets, Russia, India and China in particular. One grand in an Indian market tracker 2 years ago for example would be worth £2500 today. These figures are before dividend payments too.

Market trackers are inherintly safe, it's not like having shares in a single company where if they go bust you lose everything. Yes the markets don't always go up, but when they do depress they will always come back up in the end, if you're in it for the medium-long term there is very low risk. You can tie up £7000 a year like this in ISAs so Gordon Brown doesn't get a slice of your profits either which could otherwise be up to 40% if you're a high earner. Any market profits outside of ISAs aren't taxed unless they're greater than £8800 too, anything after that is subject to capital gains tax, which effectively means it is just just added on to your annual income and taxed at the appropriate rate.

This is slow and steady profit unlike the 'up 1000 today down 2000 the next' world of poker.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 01:20   #36
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Rozenski
"It won't happen to me, I have skill, I'm different etc." Keep beliving that, everyone's luck runs out sooner or later.
Shut up you ****ing cretin.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 01:23   #37
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Rozenski
Perhaps, just perhaps, their profit comes from taking people's money?
every business does that you block-head
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 09:38   #38
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Rozenski
When you see online gaming firms appear and grow to be worth billions in next to no time, clearly making filty amounts of profit alarm bells have surely got to be ringing!? Where do you think these companies are getting their money? Perhaps, just perhaps, their profit comes from taking people's money? If their business is making a profit, then the very nature of their business means that their average client is losing money to them for nothing in return... yet people still join these sites!? Lets not forget the frequent news stories of people losing 10s of thousands to these sites, often stealing from their employer to do so, or raiding family savings etc..
This sort of blanket statement is just incorrect. The casino is obviously guaranteed to make money in the longrun from each game it offers, but the manner in which they guarantee this differs from game to game. With something like roulette/blackjack (sort of)/craps, its impossible to win in the longrun so anyone who plays this expecting to make money is just deluded. I dont really understand the appeal of wasting money on this sort of thing over the internet; it makes sense in a casino because you can be there just for a fun night out with mates rather than to make money in which case losing a few £ on roulette doesnt matter, but I dont really get where the fun comes from when youre just clicking the 'red!!!' button on some website.

But anyway, with a game like poker theres nothing which intrinsically prevents you from making money in the longrun, becuase the house edge manifests in a different way; the rake system means that youre basically paying the house for the privilege of using their tables. And once youve paid this, youre able to compete against the other players on level terms, so if poker acutally involves significantly more skill than luck once youve moved past the level of beginner (I'm still dubious about this), then you should be able to win enough money from the players less skilled than you to make a profit. It's a totally different system from roulette or blackjack where its mathematically impossible to win in the long term, which is why these are pretty much games for losers (like all gambling which is entirely luck based).

Quote:
If you wanna make more than that then look to the markets and bonds; even a simple FTSE tracker can make you a fair amount of money. If you'd put 2 grand in a FTSE tracker 2 years ago, today it'd be worth about 3 grand (depite the market being flat (net) for the last 6 months). If you still fancy a little more risk you could look at the emerging markets, Russia, India and China in particular. One grand in an Indian market tracker 2 years ago for example would be worth £2500 today. These figures are before dividend payments too.
The stock market involves a fair bit of gambling/luck if you want to make a return significantly above that which you can get from a fixed rate fund, so the onus is really on you to show why you think this is more stable than poker or fruit machines, assuming the player is good. On the plus side, I suppose investing the money would save you the time spent playing poker, which you could use to play more enjoyable games instead!

Games which are alleged to have some degree of skill, like the stock market, poker, fruit machines, horse/football betting, etc, belong in a fundamentally different category from pure gambling like roulette, lotteries, and so on. Of course, you can argue about whether there is actually as much skill as people claim (as I said, I'm fairly suspiscious about poker, especially when I read the excuses that supposedly 'good' players come out with when they lose to players who are allegedly 'bad' - a game in which you can blame the incompetance of your opponent for your inability to win has something fundamentally wrong with it imo).

Last edited by Nodrog; 1 Oct 2006 at 10:01.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 13:21   #39
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
The stock market involves a fair bit of gambling/luck if you want to make a return significantly above that which you can get from a fixed rate fund, so the onus is really on you to show why you think this is more stable than poker or fruit machines, assuming the player is good.
I'm not sure how you work this out. It's not like you pick 5 random AIM companies, throw your thousands into them and then hope they do well.

If you want to seriously make money from this, you do your research. There are zillions of business orientated websites, and even papers like the Telegraph have a (albeit not too large) section dedicated to telling you how companies are doing. Not just the FTSE 100, either (I don't know why people think it's such a great idea investing in these as your markup is likely to be minimal - I guess because the risk is low).

Obviously there is some luck involved, but most things in this life do have some degree of luck. Comparing it to something like poker is ridiculous. Firstly because if you get dealt 100 shitty hands in a row, you'll lose. Likewise, if you get dealt 100 awesome hands in a row, chances are you'll win unless you're a complete spaz. That's luck - and I agree with you about just how far a "skilled" poker player can go once they know the odds and when it's good to bet and when not to.

Oh and PS you know a fixed rate fund raises your capital by using the stock market and investments, right?
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 14:40   #40
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Games which are alleged to have some degree of skill, like the stock market, poker, fruit machines, horse/football betting, etc, belong in a fundamentally different category from pure gambling like roulette, lotteries, and so on. Of course, you can argue about whether there is actually as much skill as people claim (as I said, I'm fairly suspiscious about poker, especially when I read the excuses that supposedly 'good' players come out with when they lose to players who are allegedly 'bad' - a game in which you can blame the incompetance of your opponent for your inability to win has something fundamentally wrong with it imo).
There's a general expectation that your opponent will attempt to play the optimum game. However, due to differing skill levels, this obviously isn't possible. It's very easy for a good player to lose despite indicating all the way that they would win a particular hand (their cards vs their opponent's cards) with 90% odds. There's still that 10% chance that the opponent will win anyway. Since texas hold'em poker is inevitably an 'all or nothing game' (where players put all of their chips on the line at least once), they will sometimes lose to players who were lucky enough to succeed with that 10% chance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Obviously there is some luck involved, but most things in this life do have some degree of luck. Comparing it to something like poker is ridiculous. Firstly because if you get dealt 100 shitty hands in a row, you'll lose. Likewise, if you get dealt 100 awesome hands in a row, chances are you'll win unless you're a complete spaz. That's luck - and I agree with you about just how far a "skilled" poker player can go once they know the odds and when it's good to bet and when not to.
This is something called variance by internet poker players. The basic contention is that the bigger the sample size, the less chance of having a bias towards certain values of hands.

So a sample size of 100 or even 1000 would be tiny. In fact, even 10000 can provide bad indications. However, a sample size of 100000 hands is far less likely to have a bias in it that betrays the % chance of being dealt particular hands.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 14:47   #41
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm not sure how you work this out. It's not like you pick 5 random AIM companies, throw your thousands into them and then hope they do well.

If you want to seriously make money from this, you do your research. There are zillions of business orientated websites, and even papers like the Telegraph have a (albeit not too large) section dedicated to telling you how companies are doing. Not just the FTSE 100, either (I don't know why people think it's such a great idea investing in these as your markup is likely to be minimal - I guess because the risk is low).

Obviously there is some luck involved, but most things in this life do have some degree of luck. Comparing it to something like poker is ridiculous. Firstly because if you get dealt 100 shitty hands in a row, you'll lose. Likewise, if you get dealt 100 awesome hands in a row, chances are you'll win unless you're a complete spaz. That's luck - and I agree with you about just how far a "skilled" poker player can go once they know the odds and when it's good to bet and when not to.

Oh and PS you know a fixed rate fund raises your capital by using the stock market and investments, right?
do you have any idea how hedge fonds work? pure luck, just that they dont throw thousands but billions and hope someone is going to bail them out if things go wrong because its not a good thing if the global economy is falling to pieces.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 16:08   #42
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
do you have any idea how hedge fonds work? pure luck, just that they dont throw thousands but billions and hope someone is going to bail them out if things go wrong because its not a good thing if the global economy is falling to pieces.
I'm pretty sure we're not talking about hedge funds but ok

Is that your limit of knowing how they work? Yes I'm sure that's why hedge fund investors make thousands upon thousands of pounds annually. Just because they throw loads of money around and hope someone will pick up the pieces. Gosh! No wonder I'm poor when it's that easy to make money!


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
This is something called variance by internet poker players. The basic contention is that the bigger the sample size, the less chance of having a bias towards certain values of hands.
Yes I know what variance is - surprisingly enough, it's not just used by internet poker players. It's a pretty common statistical term. It still supports the argument that a significant portion of poker is based on luck.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 16:42   #43
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Re: poker

The odds on winning a particular poker game are silly to try and start to work out. For example a game with relatively high blinds will be far more luck based as you have less room in which to use your edge. People see big pots played out on television and see pros go broke in certain situations and think "they're not that good if that happens". That's missing the point though, those pots, the all or nothing pots where neither player can really fold, are largely irrelevant. Money is made in the more minor pots, where it's a question of who can pick up the blinds, money is made in having an optimum bluffing frequency for your game, money is made in being able to extract maximum value from the player you're playing against.

The whole point of poker is that you remove the relevance of "being dealt 100 terrible hands in a row" or 100 great hands. You don't sit down with your whole bankroll in one game and leave yourself open to one bad beat or one misplayed pot or one unlucky pot. Obviously you can still be dealt 250,000 terrible hands in a row but even that doesn't mean you're going to lose. If you're a relatively competent player you can still steal blinds when you're in position or see cheap flops with hands with possibilities or just be in a pot on the blinds, hit top pair, bet out and win.

Unfortunately most people here have a warped perception of what poker really is because what you see on tv, and what most people play, is tournament style no limit texas holdem with gradually elevating blinds. There is a reason that some of the top pros don't bother playing many tournaments any more and it's largely along the lines a few people have outlined. Individual tournaments both a) require a slightly different style to cash games (which most pros would think of as their bread and butter, although slightly less so these days) and b) are, in terms of expectation, more luck based. I don't care how luck based you think poker is but if you think you can beat chip reese in a game of limit omaha h/l with 25,50 blinds and a 10,000 starting stack you need to get your head examined before you piss away your money.

To be honest the argument that "a significant portion of poker is based on luck" is irrelevant. If I offered you two-to-one on a coin flip it would still be significantly luck based but you're going to make money in the long run.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 16:50   #44
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
To be honest the argument that "a significant portion of poker is based on luck" is irrelevant. If I offered you two-to-one on a coin flip it would still be significantly luck based but you're going to make money in the long run.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there.

I was simply agreeing with nod in saying that there is a fair amount of luck involved in poker (discounting the "well if you played <insert famous poker player here> you'd lose" mainly because none of us play celebrity poker players), as opposed to a game such as Chess or even something like Mario Kart.

Comparing it to investing in the stock market (off your own back, not using a syndicate or organisation to invest for you) is ridiculous.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 16:57   #45
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Re: poker

What's your actual point then? When you say "it's significantly luck based" what relevance do you think that has? I assume you don't mean skill is irrelevant or it's impossible to make money off it in the long run because that's demonstrably false.
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Unread 1 Oct 2006, 17:38   #46
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Re: poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What's your actual point then? When you say "it's significantly luck based" what relevance do you think that has?
That it involves more luck than investing money into companies on the stock market.

I thought that was clear from my original post. Sorry if it wasn't.
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