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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 01:59   #1
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation The CHIKA file.

For a reason which is lost to history, an AD poster called Chika began to post on GD a short time ago. At first, it appeared as if he might be accepted, albeit as a rather erratic and strange sort. But we have plenty of those already, and nothing seemed to be amiss.

However, Chika became a regular poster, and an increasingly obnoxious, arrogant, and inflamatory poster at that. He seemed to have serious difficulty in grasping the twin notions of restraint and decency.

In the last few days leading up to his ban, Chika became an increasing nuisance on GD, to the point where half of the forum was routinely chasing him through threads in order to tell him what an arse he was. This was clearly an intolerable situation, and he was given sufficent warning through PM that he should stop trolling, or be banned.

The following is the only known copy of these PM's to survive, from the aftermath of what was Chika's GD career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
MrL JaKiri called me a baffon on a thread. Attacking my person. Please warn him that that is not acceptable. If you can't do this please let me know so I can report accordingly.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
No offence, but can you stop being so incredibly shit? It's hardly surprising people don't like you terribly based on your conduct so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Erm, so what. So what if people don't like me. Not once have I called someone a name. Sorry, but can you please warn him.
My conduct has been normal also. i just go against you guys simple minded train of thought.
I'm harmless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Look, it's simple. If you piss people off to the extent that people are doing, then you will be banned.

This is called trolling by our definitions. This is not some kind of wonderful internet version of speakers corner; it is, in many ways, a club, and you accept both the rules of the club, and the need to adjust to the social niceities of the club. If you are not liked, or indeed actively disliked, by such a swathe of people on here as you currently are, then there is simply no way a moderator can defend you, even disreguarding their own personal opinions.

This aclimatisation does not, for example, involve being ridiculously obtuse, arrogant, foolish and presumptuous at every oppourtunity, as you have done since posting on GD.

Don't pretend that you can dodge this, because you can't. You either try and fit in to a reasonable degree, or you are gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
NO
What about the people commenting on my mom? What about the blatant phrases at me. Sadly, until you can correct that you have no arguement to close me. Sure you can abuse it, but I beleive you don't have the final say. You can't let others do it and then punish me for it. Thats just not right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
What about the people commenting on my mom?
You seem to be grossly unaware of the fact that people are only doing this in response to your own behaviour, which I have already described above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Sure you can abuse it, but I beleive you don't have the final say.
Believe me, I do. There is not one person on here, either admin or moderator, who would contest a banning of you at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
2 wrongs don't make a right. You would be inadequate in and negative decision against me. For the simple fact that you are letting others slide. Get off my case. Just like you get off of everyone elses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I can no longer reason with you; it is pointless. Any further bad behaviour or your part will be met with a permanent ban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Well, i hope you address everyone breaking the rules in this manner. If not. See you around.

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=183812

with threads like that allowed to stay open you don't have an arguement.
Get in gear.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:07   #2
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I wish i could pos rep you
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:07   #3
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Re: The CHIKA file.

What, exactly, is the purpose of this thread?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:09   #4
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

I think it's well covered under transparent decision making/purient interest.

I mabye thought I was a little harsh on him after a while.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:10   #5
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Re: The CHIKA file.

HEY!

That thread he mentions was me asking for him not to be banned.

He is so stupid.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:17   #6
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

I still can't make my mind up over whether he was to any degree aware of how offensive he was being to people on here, and the likely reaction it would cause.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:19   #7
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I think it's well covered under transparent decision making/purient interest.

I mabye thought I was a little harsh on him after a while.
To be honest, I do not see why he was banned. Yes, he was a crap poster, but I wouldn't say he was specifically trolling for replies or disrupting the forum. He does have a point when he notes that a lot of personal attacks were made against him, which is equally against the forum rules.

Don't forget that GD is still a part of the Planetarion forums as a whole, not a forum on it's own. Banning someone because they're shit by GD standards would be fine and dandy if that were the case, but you are dealing with bigger forum rules here which should apply equally across all the forums.

There's several other posters who frequently make crappy posts (and are clearly delineated as such by a large amount of negative reputation) and draw a large amount of negative replies, but are not banned as such. The banstick pretty much is a last-resort issue for when someone is repeatedly and blatantly breaking the forum rules - posters which are simply shit should be dealt with on a community basis (be it through ignoring, discussion or the rep system).

Frankly people who follow Chika around replying "You're shit." to every post are more of a problem than Chika himself.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:21   #8
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Re: The CHIKA file.

He doesn't realise AD is a different place to GD.

Poor fella.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:29   #9
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
To be honest, I do not see why he was banned. Yes, he was a crap poster, but I wouldn't say he was specifically trolling for replies or disrupting the forum. He does have a point when he notes that a lot of personal attacks were made against him, which is equally against the forum rules.
My reason for banning him was simply because he was making the normal running of GD simply impossible, by that point.

You simply cannot come on here, fresh from nowhere, and start saying people have huge egos, that they are generally not worth the time of day, and being horribly condescending towards them, and generally being objectionable in every way possible.

That is idiocy at best, trolling at worst.

I admit that by the end, it was largely a one way tirade against him. But that was merely a symptom of his earlier, stupid behaviour and could only be expected.

To end that you simply had to remove the problem - and he was not going to reform himself, nor were people going to easily forget his foolishness.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:31   #10
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Arrow Re: The CHIKA file.

Out of curiousity: How can you permanently ban somewhone who doesn't have a static IP address? Does it work?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:33   #11
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

I believe then you can only ban the single account and any more that appear. You can do more drastic things like that, but it's not generally advisable.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:35   #12
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Is it impossible to ban him from GD only?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:38   #13
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

Not impossible, but I don't really see why we should go out of our way to award special priviledges to people.

I mean, you can see what I wrote above. He could have just stopped posting on GD if he was all that bothered about losing his account.

And considering the fact that he routinely said we were generally fools who posted about drivel, I don't even see why he was bothering posting on here to begin with if not to merely provoke people.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:45   #14
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Re: The CHIKA file.

i still say unban him - the first ban was reasonable, the second one was kinda not.. anyway, i'm sure the AD guys will be more than happy to police his actions here on GD and will be willing to reason with him
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:52   #15
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Exclamation Re: The CHIKA file.

You see, I find this astonishing, because I considered the first ban something of a joke. I did that because I thought he, being new, clearly had not grasped the fundamental basis of GD. I thought it would both be popular and would give him pause for thought, so everyone would win.

I was wrong on the second count. It didn't. He continued much as before, and the situation simply became ridiculous. And it would simply be a repetition of that if we unbanned him. I don't believe we really want that.

You can't 'police' someone like that, when every post they make may start a flame war.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 02:52   #16
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Re: The CHIKA file.

If he's broken the rules he pays like any other user and serves the ban, in my view.

He's not liked on AD but once you get past his general attitude there are some interesting salient points on PA, so i have little problem with him.

The difference is that on AD you have to be uber strict on insulting others and ensure people keep on topic as otherwise it just descends into some shit petty flamewar. Not that I know anything about modding GD.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 06:53   #17
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Without knowing all the details**, granted, it sounds alot like this person got banned simply because you people didn't like him or cared for what he had to say. If thats the case, then you guys are pretty shitty yourselves.

Myself speaking, I've been coming here since my join date to garnish myself with an interesting perspective (its a good laugh most of the time) on things going on in the world. I don't take anything personally that is said about my opinions and I try to overlook blatant ignorance and biggotry as best as possible; in that respect, most everyone here would probably be well to do the same.

Back to Chika though, do you not see whats wrong with banning someone just because he posts a few racy replies? Basically what his banning tells me is that if you have an opinion, however outlandish it may be, and enough people don't like it, the good folks at GD will kick you out of their "club". I'm sure Chika was really hurt by the banning too. If I got banned for the things I was saying here, then I would (on some sort of level) feel a sense of accomplishment.

The net result of his banishment is only going to be encouraging others to follow in his foot steps. So good job guys, your "club" has become a better place. Free of all those nasty disonant opinions that inspire people to actually waste 15 or 20 minutes typing up a reply.

Sincerely yours,
Rehs

** As far as 'the details' are concerned, I took the time to read over some of Chika's recent posts on GD,. I really hope that he wasn't banned just for those, as that would be quite pathetic.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 07:08   #18
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Clash of values. MM is just being British. Presumably the agitators are American or "other". For the GD historians among you, wasn't this "common sense" sort of moderation why W left?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 08:01   #19
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I suppose the only comparison (however poor) is Sunday. Needless to say, I don't think he should have been banned either.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 08:12   #20
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Re: The CHIKA file.

He posted shit, was unnecessarily aggressive and then didn't modify his behaviour when warned (and banned) by the mods. Thus he was banned. What's the problem? The lesson is : Don't be shit, but if you are, at least try and tone it down when the mods call you on it. Christ, even Sunday used to go easy for a bit after he was warned.

The internet is full of pathetic little attention seekers going round being internet warriors. They thrive on the controversy (and will generally say they are being 'controversial'). They rarely learn.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 08:27   #21
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I agree with Leshy.

Perhaps unban him in a few days? That way, he's had his slap on the wrist and seen what will happen if he continues to be shit. If he continues to be an arse, then he can be permanently banned.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 08:50   #22
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Clash of values. MM is just being British. Presumably the agitators are American or "other". For the GD historians among you, wasn't this "common sense" sort of moderation why W left?
i thought it was that it didn't extend to everyone W disliked (see: Mark) rather than the mere fact of it happening?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 09:03   #23
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Clash of values. MM is just being British. Presumably the agitators are American or "other".
Not really. There are plenty of "agitating" British posters on the internet. On this forum the dominant group are British so the "rebels" are often from other countries. I don't think there's anything inherently about one group or another. See also : lots of people's behaviour here over on the DF3 forums.

Quote:
For the GD historians among you, wasn't this "common sense" sort of moderation why W left?
No.

edit : I think a lot of people don't understand why people are banned. Someone neg repped one of my previous comments saying "lots of people as dumb as him [Chika] are allowed to keep posting". Very true. But people aren't banned for being "dumb". They are banned for being disruptive (and generally aggressive.) If people were banned on the basis of stupidity then...<insert list of users who would have been banned long ago>

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 7 Mar 2005 at 09:17.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:08   #24
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I dont think he should have been banned. He wasnt being offensive and GD needs some place to vent it's rage. If there are no bad posters, how can there be good posters?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:23   #25
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I don´t think he should have been banned.

He should have been torn to four pieces by rabid horses on speed. Whilst burning.



No seriously now, ofcourse his ban is 100% okay. I see people´s reactions vary on this and I really don´t understand why.
If someone comes to your house, insults your family, and pisses against the walls, would you ask him to go; or will you go in to discussion with him on the fact that he called one of your family members a ****, while one other familymember is loading his gun and another is calling his friends jusuf, mahmet, ali, ibrahim and mustafa and their 88 family members to invite them to come over?

Clearly you make him leave at some point.

Discussing over what made him behave like this or if he was right or not to piss against the walls here is the worst form of socialism ever. The group needs protection as well, not just the one sorry individual.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:39   #26
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Re: The CHIKA file.

he was seriously annoying me.
non-constructive posts.
overly-aggressive.
very presumptive.
He was warned to modify his behaviour and he didn't. In fact I think he got worse.

Maybe a permanent ban is too much but if he was let back and was still just as shit then that would be a final final straw.

I seriously think that's enough GD discussion on the matter tho.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:53   #27
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Re: The CHIKA file.

he was rude and pointless
and didnt put up a good fight to back himself up

him 'my only opinion on anything is that you are all wrong and i am fabulous and clever and wonderful'
us 'you are a tit, please bugger off'
him 'you are so closed minded and stupid that you cant accept my different opinion'
us 'you are a tit, now bugger off'
him 'you are all mean, i am going to tell on you, i am wonderful and you are stupid'
us 'piss off or be banned'
him ' you suck, i am wonderful'
us 'goodbye'

forced removal sounds fair to me
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:54   #28
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Re: The CHIKA file.

the problem is, that no matter how crap some people are, they still OCCATIONALLY make good posts, or at least don't try and break the status quo, chika went out of his way to post shit, there is no other word for it, therefore he deserved to be banned
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 10:55   #29
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Re: The CHIKA file.

For anyone who might doubt the reasons he was banned, allow me to display an excerpt from this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
I have to admit that the US is doing some pretty silly things over there. But from what I remember, the USA is the main reason why most of you are not working for slave wages, or being ran by comunist. I admit that the Americans methods are kind of unorthodox, but every night you should be praying to them. Simply because your kids can go to school. And if your a kid, pray that you can go to school. Thats what they are doing for iraq. Those people were slaves in thier own land, and ruled under an iron fist. They were hungry, and homeless, and a terrorist was a "common" occupancy there. Now its not. Maybe if the Americans wouldn't have had the balls to step up, someone else would have, BUT we would have been laughing at thier mistakes though. Because noone is perfect.
Now that is either trolling, or the mindless arrogant dribblings of someone so uninformed about history, politics and world events in general that he fully deserves some time on his own to do some background reading.
From the context I assume he is American, and unfortunately he appears to be participating in that most annoying of right-wing American habits: when you don't have any basis for what you are saying, spout patriotic condescending bullshit.


MM has done us all a favour really.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 11:37   #30
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
You are truely disobeying the rules attacking ones person. Please correct yourself, then try to correct others. Use this same concept with your kids.
(if no kids, use with someone who looks up to you.)
(If noone looks up to you.... forget I wrote you.)
I replied with exerpts from an HP Lovecraft short story.

[edit]

And to the nay-sayers (on the topic of the ban), he was disrupting things to such an extent that as soon as he posted in a thread, by and large the thread became a thread about him.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 11:38   #31
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Re: The CHIKA file.

JJ really needs to add "no being shit" to the forum rules.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 11:57   #32
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Re: The CHIKA file.

It's covered under our saving grace, Rule 1.
Never forget Rule 1 kids.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:09   #33
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
It's covered under our saving grace, Rule 1.
Never forget Rule 1 kids.
Oh, I know. It might just make it more obvious to new posters that we won't put up with them if they're shit.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:12   #34
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I dont think Chika should be banned.

I have just looked through a dozen or so threads where he posted and to be honest he didnt seem too offensive at all - maybe to the over sensetive type but noone else.

What is did see though was a lot of people baiting him up. Yes there were personal insults there too and certain posters who appeared as though they couldnt stand him. And some of his posts might be considered sh*t, but that doesnt mean he should be banned.

How I see it is the forum has an ignore option that everyone is free to use if a certain poster rubs them up the wrong way or if they find anything they have to say of no interest, those who really didnt like his posts could have used that. Secondly we now have a reputation system to allow other users to make individuals aware of those posts they find unsatisfactory.

In my view, people calling for him to be banned are worse than any 'sh*t' poster could ever be, noone here has the right to call for another user to be banned.

He didnt appear to break any of JJ's rules - Clause 1 is a bit of a joke rule isnt it so using that as a reason is a bit sill. I mean, how can a moderator who self confesses to having mood swings between suicide one day and euphoria the next be in any way trusted with such a general, egotistical rule as that?

Unban Chika I say.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:13   #35
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Ban Crashtester.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:14   #36
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
I mean, how can a moderator who self confesses to having mood swings between suicide one day and euphoria the next be in any way trusted with such a general, egotistical rule as that?
He does have a point here.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:20   #37
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Re: The CHIKA file.

The problem is he is a paying pa player, the question then arises does he have more of a right than others to post here, his behaviour on GD was shit, on AD he is quite a good poster imo, even if it is sometime anti my alliance, but I still take time to read his posts, maybe a solution would be ban him from GD, but still allow him access on AD and PD?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:32   #38
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Wich last post was the "final drop"?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:34   #39
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
The problem is he is a paying pa player, the question then arises does he have more of a right than others to post here
Of course not.

(And, since 95% of GD regulars don't play PA and see the fact that GD is part of the "Planetarion Forums" as more of an interesting factoid than a defining feature, if someone (Jolt presumably) introduced a rule like that, we could quite easily create a new forum somewhere else. They're ridiculously easy to set up, and we could have the same admin, the same mods, the same posters, just without all the Jolt/PA rubbish (hello Biffy) we have to put up with here.)
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:35   #40
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Paying for PA does not guaruntee the right to post on the forum.
As such you have as much right as anyone else to post, and if you are a tit then you get banned same as anyone else.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:39   #41
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Re: The CHIKA file.

i aggree with both of your points, but my point is that AD and PD are part of planetarion as a game to a certain extent, hence my argument allow him to post there and not GD?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 12:52   #42
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Re: The CHIKA file.

lets face it, he didn't fit in, he didn't try and fit in, he had a superiority complex, because he came from AD he was better than 'us' (us being GD)
He was arrogant, obnoxious, and worse, he displayed nothing that could add to this forum
he deserved the ban
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:13   #43
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I like chika in threads out of GD he doesnt seem like an evil poster of sorts but then again havent really read anything in GD to see what provokes everyone to abuse him.
I know that once GD gets a chance to though and you mess up saying 1 wrong thing in the wrong place like a did then yes you will get flamed rather badly but what the heck i dont mind being flamed gives you GD guys something to do

p.s if you don't pay for PA you should be allowed an account in the forums just from the fact its a forum and just coz you PAY for PA should'nt give you special liberties on a Board with nothing to do with PA on. But I think you should be able to ban on indiviual boards only.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:28   #44
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
If someone comes to your house
He didn't come to anyone's house. This is a public forum, open to all. The argument that a group on a forum needs protection from an individual because they feel the need to reply "you're shit" to all his posts is laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
him 'my only opinion on anything is that you are all wrong and i am fabulous and clever and wonderful'
us 'you are a tit, please bugger off'
him 'you are so closed minded and stupid that you cant accept my different opinion'
us 'you are a tit, now bugger off'
him 'you are all mean, i am going to tell on you, i am wonderful and you are stupid'
us 'piss off or be banned'
him ' you suck, i am wonderful'
us 'goodbye'
So how exactly are you justifying banning someone over "I am wonderful", and not the rest for "You are a tit, bugger off"? Are those latter posts of a higher quality? Did anyone force anyone to follow Chika around pointing out his idiocy?

It seems to me like the banstick was used merely to assert authority over someone. Chika's posts may have been hideously stupid and misinformed, but then QDeathstar has made posts which were equally shit, and he's still around. So clearly that's not the criterium. Sunday8PM lasted for ages on the forum, and he did a far better job at trolling and being offensive than Chika, if that was his attempt. So that can't be the criterium either.

And if Chika's posts were so inflammatory that they were disruptive, why were they simply not deleted? I remember from my time as a moderator that we were pushing more to taking an active role and actually moderate posts individually if needed, rather than immediately going "STOP OR I BAN YOU" mode.

I have not personally seen Chika do anything that was in clear violation of the forum rules, or that couldn't have been ignored. I do see half the forum jumping on the bandwagon and declaring Chika shit at every possible point, thereby turning him and his into a disruption, whether that was his intention or not. I have not seen any "Guys, we've deleted some posts from threads by Chika and replies to him. If he takes things off-topic, simply use the Report Post button, don't go flame him 20 times."

Just my two cents.
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:35   #45
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Re: The CHIKA file.

The word is "criterion".
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:35   #46
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Clash of values. MM is just being British. Presumably the agitators are American or "other". For the GD historians among you, wasn't this "common sense" sort of moderation why W left?
No, W left because shitty posters werent being banned (we are banning shitty posters here).
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:38   #47
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Re: The CHIKA file.

I wish I had a file
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:42   #48
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
The problem is he is a paying pa player,

I believe that he stated quite clearly that he is no longer a paying player,so he would not get that non-existant protection.

Did he not also post that he was essentially coming here to wind people up with a view to getting removed from the community?
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:43   #49
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Re: The CHIKA file.

"The only rule of GD-club, is that you don't act like a tit".
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Unread 7 Mar 2005, 13:44   #50
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Re: The CHIKA file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
No, W left because shitty posters werent being banned (we are banning shitty posters here).
Oh yeah, it was the opposite.
Still, this was a great post, and truely made the thread: https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?p=2838120.
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