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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 19:50   #1
Achilles
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Why Rollback?

This is stupid. It has *much* less of an influence on the game for certain prods to have dropped than to cancel a whole night of attacks. Surely the best solution is to manually reinstate prod for those who *really* care, which won't be many people, rather than ****ing with practically everyone?

It's also not fair that I get roids (I think) because I landed 420 but someone who landed 422 doesn't. It's frankly stupid and if PATeam simply must roll back rather than do a bit of work they should cancel the whole day and reset to the tick at midnight when far fewer fleets were due to land and the damage to scoring integrity is not nearly so bad.

Rolling back to a point in the middle of attacks landing and recalling fleets is beyond moronic.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 19:53   #2
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Re: Why Rollback?

Too true, and now I will miss out on 3k Tarants from the salvage of a crashing attacker
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 19:55   #3
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Re: Why Rollback?

I can even accept the rollback, but recalling all fleets is insane, cancels the whole night of attacking (except for those landing very early) and the planning which has gone into it.

Make the game accessable some hours before tick restart tomorrow and dont recall anything.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 19:55   #4
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Re: Why Rollback?

Its the fleet recall which i think is awful. Why should someone who actually got roided get another chance?
Also if fleets are recalled why the hell arnt we going to tick now, surely the 24 hour wait is to put everyone on the same playing field at the point of where it was?

What fun is it when it starts ticking tommorow. Middle of the day everyone has fleets home. Lets all sit and collect res for another 12 hours before fleets are launched shall we? *sigh*


Roll back is a stupid idea, people who cared about their hidden prod enough i agree should have it put back in.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 20:05   #5
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Re: Why Rollback?

Or hell, recall all eta 5+ fleets and open the game now.. If you dont check between now and tommorows first tick then its your own fault if you crash... everyone else has fleets home to do as they wish.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 20:26   #6
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Re: Why Rollback?

restarting the game now would be awfull.
think lots of players are taking a PA "offday" now.

but the rollback shouldn't have happened.
lost of people i know are prolly going to miss out on salvage from crahes now.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 20:33   #7
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Re: Why Rollback?

This is retarded in every sense of the word. I know of 5 people in my alliance alone who had landed awesome fake attacks, which a rollback completely screws over, and to recall fleets, means you mess over everyone elses attacks, just because some prod dropped? Thats just dumb.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 20:55   #8
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Re: Why Rollback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
Or hell, recall all eta 5+ fleets and open the game now.. If you dont check between now and tommorows first tick then its your own fault if you crash... everyone else has fleets home to do as they wish.
There's a pretty obvious flaw in that idea...
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:00   #9
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
This is stupid. It has *much* less of an influence on the game for certain prods to have dropped than to cancel a whole night of attacks. Surely the best solution is to manually reinstate prod for those who *really* care, which won't be many people, rather than ****ing with practically everyone?

It's also not fair that I get roids (I think) because I landed 420 but someone who landed 422 doesn't. It's frankly stupid and if PATeam simply must roll back rather than do a bit of work they should cancel the whole day and reset to the tick at midnight when far fewer fleets were due to land and the damage to scoring integrity is not nearly so bad.

Rolling back to a point in the middle of attacks landing and recalling fleets is beyond moronic.
I gotta agree.... Roll back to midnight!
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:03   #10
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Re: Why Rollback?

Looks like I managed to pick an excellent day to be away
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:03   #11
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Re: Why Rollback?

No rollback at all imo!
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:08   #12
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
I can even accept the rollback, but recalling all fleets is insane, cancels the whole night of attacking (except for those landing very early) and the planning which has gone into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
Its the fleet recall which i think is awful. Why should someone who actually got roided get another chance?

What fun is it when it starts ticking tommorow. Middle of the day everyone has fleets home. Lets all sit and collect res for another 12 hours before fleets are launched shall we? *sigh*

Roll back is a stupid idea, people who cared about their hidden prod enough i agree should have it put back in.

Or hell, recall all eta 5+ fleets
Posting in agreement with the above.

Last edited by ellonweb; 22 Nov 2008 at 21:39.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:21   #13
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Re: Why Rollback?

this is so PA. no wonder the community is so small. A rollback occurs almost every rnd (hey, we even have a policy about this matter) I would expect the PA team to come up with a better solution than this.

Somewhat i can agree that the policy is there, and normally should be followed. But in this special scenario, the policy will end up bad for half the universe.
Rolling back to a tick where some alliances alrdy landed, and others are about to in the coming ticks, and then recall fleets r just totally insane and wrong in so many ways!

Why not rollback to 00.00 gmt or a few ticks sooner, a time when most of the active PA community got their fleets at base anyways. As it is now, some that alrdy have landed a raid will actually have one more night of attacking than others.

I still dont understand why the current rollback to 12.30 GMt requires a fullscale recall of fleets.... almost 24 hour notice should be enough for everyone to do what they were supposed to be4 12.30 today? or if not, freeze it another day.

lets contine monday at 12.30 GMT with no recall of fleets!
who would mind that? A day without planetarion is worth continuing where we left off....


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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 21:34   #14
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Re: Why Rollback?

ASS, currently in a position fight with HR
ASS gained 1646 roids from attack landing T522 & T523 (and T524 never happened)
HR gained gained 1373 roids from attack landing T520 & T521

instead of streching ASSs advantage through a good attack, this pointless and totally unprecedented 'fleet recall', HR gain an advantage.

reset to midnight if you have too, still dont see the reason, can only be a handful of planets affected, they should be able to modify each account within 24hrs
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 22:14   #15
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Re: Why Rollback?

venox is so gonna laugh at me that this happened when i was eta1 on capping free roids from him
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 22:24   #16
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Re: Why Rollback?

Recalling fleets is the height of stupidity
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 23:11   #17
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Re: Why Rollback?

The problem with not recalling eta 4 and below fleets - what about those who wanted to recall, attack or defence? Some people will be definitely capping roids, others won't.

Unfortunately in situations like this there has to be a consistent procedure, or otherwise PA team are going to be charged with bias one way or the other. Ultimately, a rollback based on arbitrary criteria is a decent way to run the game, even if it does leave some people feeling slightly cheated. Whichever way you rollback, don't rollback whatever, someone is going to be upset. Ultimately you have to accept that these are the rules and sometimes practicality comes ahead of fairness.

Whatever policy you go for you can't win, the fact that we have one is pretty commendable.
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Unread 22 Nov 2008, 23:14   #18
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Re: Why Rollback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Posting in agreement with the above.
Recalling eta 5+ fleets would, as previously stated, be utterly retarded. Outgoing fleets could be caught into uncovered incoming. No change should kill existing fleet.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 00:21   #19
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The problem with not recalling eta 4 and below fleets - what about those who wanted to recall, attack or defence? Some people will be definitely capping roids, others won't.

Unfortunately in situations like this there has to be a consistent procedure, or otherwise PA team are going to be charged with bias one way or the other. Ultimately, a rollback based on arbitrary criteria is a decent way to run the game, even if it does leave some people feeling slightly cheated. Whichever way you rollback, don't rollback whatever, someone is going to be upset. Ultimately you have to accept that these are the rules and sometimes practicality comes ahead of fairness.

Whatever policy you go for you can't win, the fact that we have one is pretty commendable.
Well put.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 01:13   #20
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Re: Why Rollback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The problem with not recalling eta 4 and below fleets - what about those who wanted to recall, attack or defence? Some people will be definitely capping roids, others won't.

Unfortunately in situations like this there has to be a consistent procedure, or otherwise PA team are going to be charged with bias one way or the other. Ultimately, a rollback based on arbitrary criteria is a decent way to run the game, even if it does leave some people feeling slightly cheated. Whichever way you rollback, don't rollback whatever, someone is going to be upset. Ultimately you have to accept that these are the rules and sometimes practicality comes ahead of fairness.

Whatever policy you go for you can't win, the fact that we have one is pretty commendable.
a policy where they roll back to midnight when least planets are affected and neither alliance gains a big advantage.

Rollback to where some alliances have cap'd and some havent is completly wrong.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 01:26   #21
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The problem with not recalling eta 4 and below fleets - what about those who wanted to recall, attack or defence? Some people will be definitely capping roids, others won't.

Unfortunately in situations like this there has to be a consistent procedure, or otherwise PA team are going to be charged with bias one way or the other. Ultimately, a rollback based on arbitrary criteria is a decent way to run the game, even if it does leave some people feeling slightly cheated. Whichever way you rollback, don't rollback whatever, someone is going to be upset. Ultimately you have to accept that these are the rules and sometimes practicality comes ahead of fairness.

Whatever policy you go for you can't win, the fact that we have one is pretty commendable.
Policy is a baseline put in place to allow fairness and to avoid bias. The bug did not effect everyone in the game, and to have a cut off point at 12.00 GMT does not promote fairness. You may argue luck of the draw, attacking early you get the roids and get your fleet home instantly. However practically this is not acceptable in a competitive environment one nights over roiding your opposing alliance could be crucial. The bug was a random event and could not be forseen, but surly common sense not to ruin a round is the best option.

Personally I think the best approach to the situation is to open logins at 8/9GMT and the game ticks at 13.00GMT. The reason for this is for people going to work on sunday and not allowing for pa access, so can recall their own fleets or leave it to land at their own will before work. Yes people who are over eta 5 will be at a disadvantage, but some may still land attacks as they would have done, allowing people to keep their mission on track at their own will. Those who landed after the bug with fake fleets etc will probably have to recall attacks or risk the land again. This is better than a compulsory recall as your fleets may be able to land still. All in all i think this makes it fair for all parties making the best of a bad situation. Recalling ALL fleets back to base instantly is not a viable option in my eyes as the repercussions would be drastic on the alliance war tides.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 02:51   #22
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Re: Why Rollback?

Not much to think atm when many people are only motivated by their own gains/losses rather than the game mechanics as a whole.
There's only 1 thing to do: applying the rules.
Changing the rules should be discussed between rounds, if they are that bad why no post was made before (rollback + recall has been in place for quite some time) ?
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 02:55   #23
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
Not much to think atm when many people are only motivated by their own gains/losses rather than the game mechanics as a whole.
There's only 1 thing to do: applying the rules.
Changing the rules should be discussed between rounds, if they are that bad why no post was made before (rollback + recall has been in place for quite some time) ?
Yes but the problem is the rollback is going to the wrong tick. It should be rollbacked to before any alliance has landed, not when half have landed and half havent.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 03:49   #24
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Re: Why Rollback?

Rollback to a earlier tick or no rollback at all. The current rollback tick gives (a few) alliances advantages attack-wise. I can't believe PAteam will make such a decision, as it's stupid and it will allow for a accusations of corruption.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:00   #25
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Rollback to a earlier tick or no rollback at all. The current rollback tick gives (a few) alliances advantages attack-wise. I can't believe PAteam will make such a decision, as it's stupid and it will allow for a accusations of corruption.
There are rules set for an unsheduled downtime. Those are being followed.

If it affects on or the other dosn't mather, thats how it is.

If someone gains an advantage, thats fine, maybe next time some other will.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:05   #26
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
Not much to think atm when many people are only motivated by their own gains/losses rather than the game mechanics as a whole.
There's only 1 thing to do: applying the rules.
Changing the rules should be discussed between rounds, if they are that bad why no post was made before (rollback + recall has been in place for quite some time) ?
The problem is how they choose to apply their policies; which is, historically speaking, quite arbitrary. The last 2 rollbacks have not involved a fleet recall. The last time fleet was recalled was many many rounds ago. Even though their policy states they will recall fleets and wait 24 hours, they don't usually do it. Even this time, its not 24 hours.

So talk about applying the rules, based on history, does not apply. (and please dont turn this into a personal post. Just pointing out the history behind the current situation.)

And to note, if you look at the people complaining, its almost every single alliance. Listening to the players for once might be a novel idea.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:11   #27
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Re: Why Rollback?

This isnt being followed. The game was closed at 16:00GMT. The game is being restarted at 13:00GMT. That is not 24hrs! It is better that the tick matches with the time for the roll back, but I guess its better; that way so the procedure changed?... Use your heads, this issue has lots of the pa community pissed off.

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I don't think statements like this help the cause either as lots of people are losing score for the planning of attacks that simply wont happen; whilst they have been roided with no retaliation or chance to get roids back. Procedure cannot be followed in all circumstances, as it causes bias. A resolution benefiting the majority of people is best. At the moment lots of people are losing out on missed attacks, either roll back so all alliance attacks dont happen, or let them all happen and no recall. A 12:00gmt cut off just doesn't cut it.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:14   #28
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Re: Why Rollback?

OMG...what a load of minge!

R2 guy here...and it's getting worse and worse. How can rules be used as of when it suits the PA Team, (not beating down the team, they do an ok job) but for anyone to do better in anything, consistency is a major factor. Don't pick and choose and piss off the players (your customers) as it's a real gash manouver business wise.

Get it sorted! Freeze fix problem, roll back if a must...recalling is altering the roll back...am i the only only that see's it this way?
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:16   #29
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Re: Why Rollback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritfire View Post
There are rules set for an unsheduled downtime. Those are being followed.

If it affects on or the other dosn't mather, thats how it is.

If someone gains an advantage, thats fine, maybe next time some other will.
Rules aren't being followed properly. Corruption or stupidity?
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 04:41   #30
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Re: Why Rollback?

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Originally Posted by Spritfire View Post
There are rules set for an unsheduled downtime. Those are being followed.

If it affects on or the other dosn't mather, thats how it is.

If someone gains an advantage, thats fine, maybe next time some other will.
As I said on the other thread, the rules aren't being followed as the formal rules for this situation do not exist. This isn't an Unscheduled downtime, its actually closer to a scheduled one. Its also not the informal policy that's been in place in terms of bugs for 31 rounds until today which is a Cest Le Vie policy with compensation in the worst cases

Of the clauses on the downtime procedure the closest we get to this situation is the Netgamers downtime one. This deals with a decision being made to stop the game due to a problem that doesn't cripple peoples ability to access the game. That clause has no rollback to it.

There was room for some time to have been taken and a smart decision made. That wasn't done and we now have a troubling precedent set
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 05:16   #31
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Re: Why Rollback?

now to think of things on the other side, some people are fortunate, or dont care about it as they had recalls or fleets landing on them, or had fleets landing on them and there production dropped, i understand that can be fixed and some allys got an extra night of attacks. but do you mean to tell me no one has the confidence out there that they can get some roids back? or this was the last attacks they were gonna land all round? i mean really on a large scale this will only play as big a role as you let it. it should not be used as a crutch or excuse for anything imo. those skilled players are that exactly, skilled players and will always come out on-top by there competitive drive. use this as motivation if you feel you have been done wrong, and get a good night sleep ffs.

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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 08:25   #32
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Re: Why Rollback?

Recalling all fleets to avoid crashes, is the most fair solution u can find.

Obviously the game should be brought back to the point the bug occured or were noticed the first time.

The mines you can cap back the next day.

Alltho weather the bug were too hard to fix manually, rather than do a rollback is another thing. Or if it affected too greatly or not.
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Unread 23 Nov 2008, 12:45   #33
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Re: Why Rollback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
a policy where they roll back to midnight when least planets are affected and neither alliance gains a big advantage.

Rollback to where some alliances have cap'd and some havent is completly wrong.
When fleets launch is irrelevant. Ultimately your proposal could affect an endgame type situation where an alliance decides to inflict incoming round the clock on someone else to sleep deprive them into submission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Policy is a baseline put in place to allow fairness and to avoid bias. The bug did not effect everyone in the game, and to have a cut off point at 12.00 GMT does not promote fairness. You may argue luck of the draw, attacking early you get the roids and get your fleet home instantly. However practically this is not acceptable in a competitive environment one nights over roiding your opposing alliance could be crucial. The bug was a random event and could not be forseen, but surly common sense not to ruin a round is the best option.
If people are admitting defeat after one night of incoming, then I think you probably deserve to lose anyway. Again, my point above is that people attack all the time. The ticks might have stopped at a time convenient to most people but someone would have been caught out under your proposal. Unfortunately no one can account for ticks stopping and you have to accept that occasionally, the server breaks down.

Quote:
Personally I think the best approach to the situation is to open logins at 8/9GMT and the game ticks at 13.00GMT. The reason for this is for people going to work on sunday and not allowing for pa access, so can recall their own fleets or leave it to land at their own will before work.
Sensible people launch fleets according to whether they are going to be on to recall if necessary. What about people who are busy all day on Sunday? Who made plans on Sunday? Who work on Sunday? Again people are going to be unfairly affected by your proposal.

Quote:
Yes people who are over eta 5 will be at a disadvantage, but some may still land attacks as they would have done, allowing people to keep their mission on track at their own will. Those who landed after the bug with fake fleets etc will probably have to recall attacks or risk the land again. This is better than a compulsory recall as your fleets may be able to land still. All in all i think this makes it fair for all parties making the best of a bad situation. Recalling ALL fleets back to base instantly is not a viable option in my eyes as the repercussions would be drastic on the alliance war tides.
Alliance wars should be irrelevant when it comes to administrating a game - that would be clearly biased. You have to accept that this is a 24 hour game and people launch according to their convenience and don't necessarily play PA to a daily routine - even those with high activity will not be on at X time religiously or take days off where they aren't paying so much attention. Recalling all fleets to base is by far the fairest option. Regardless of outcome, its far better to recall everyone, as losing fleets is far more terminal than not gaining roids.

Procedure follows, controversy results. It's pretty funny really.
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