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Unread 24 Jan 2006, 21:06   #101
Rocko
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

think people are downplaying the amount ziks steal, and the varyiety of ships that they steal, which gives them such good advatage for deffence, because they have a range of deffensive ships for any incomming. Thus their attacking options should be limitised more.
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 00:24   #102
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

I absolutely love these stats because every race is playable. I look at each race in turn and not only see strengths but most importantly flaws. Its hard to tell which race will dominate the top 100 im sure it depends partly on how the round plays out.
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 09:31   #103
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko
think people are downplaying the amount ziks steal, and the varyiety of ships that they steal, which gives them such good advatage for deffence, because they have a range of deffensive ships for any incomming. Thus their attacking options should be limitised more.
Not exactly, it's more like that they steal less then people think and Zik will especially in early stages really rely on ally def.
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 17:20   #104
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Not exactly, it's more like that they steal less then people think and Zik will especially in early stages really rely on ally def.
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 19:53   #105
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Nehow, i really wuoldnt call ziks overpowered this round if thats what anyone is hinting.

Sure we are going to see some big ziks, but i duobt the 'average player' will do too good with them this round.
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 21:22   #106
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

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Originally Posted by Explode
then this round, Zik's will have to try and plug there weakness of arrowheads with...slealing Recluse...

Recluse would fire first against arrows...so they would be better defence then Assassin..
Or they can steal arrowheads of their own (A far more feasible possibility that nicking recluse IMO!). This discourages xands from sending vsh, and ziks can then cover themselves with assassins.

And stolen fireblades will be great for ziks too; in good enough numbers, it pretty much stops other zik DE, and cath DE/CR fleets, really toughening them up. So long as ziks get to CR/BS fast enough, they should be fun to play!
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Unread 25 Jan 2006, 22:39   #107
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Or they can steal arrowheads of their own (A far more feasible possibility that nicking recluse IMO!). This discourages xands from sending vsh, and ziks can then cover themselves with assassins.

And stolen fireblades will be great for ziks too; in good enough numbers, it pretty much stops other zik DE, and cath DE/CR fleets, really toughening them up. So long as ziks get to CR/BS fast enough, they should be fun to play!
I still don't see ziks capping alot of Xan Fi/Co atm. apart from some who go with (too) big amounts cutlass+assassin and leaving them way open. (Might be usefull for distwhoring ofc.)
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Unread 26 Jan 2006, 16:17   #108
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
I still don't see ziks capping alot of Xan Fi/Co atm. apart from some who go with (too) big amounts cutlass+assassin and leaving them way open. (Might be usefull for distwhoring ofc.)
I don't think xands will find stealing FI all that easy, but stealing CO shouldn't be too much of a problem, comparitively speaking. Zik FI are fast enough to fleetcatch xand CO fleets, and there will be lots of cases where a xand will consider landing on losses to get the XP whilst the zik will be happy with the arrowheads.

And considering the value of the arrows/fireblades to a zik as I outlined above, I can see ziks sacrificing more in FI than they gain back in CO simply to toughen their planet considerably. Cutlass will be a very attractive ship to ziks (makes their fleet harder to cover with arrowheads of thieves) and they are flakked excellently by interceptors... so xand CO shouldn't be that hard to get, though they will come with a high price!
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 05:47   #109
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

So should a zik player work on fi/co classes and speed? Or would it be best to try and get all ship types before speed?
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 08:58   #110
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Playing with unlikely combo's will prove to be worthy when playing zik if you ask me.
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 10:44   #111
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

HI all,

I'm a zik player at heart, but this round I see a few major problems with them. The primary one is that they are the terran of last round.

No anti frigate until bs. So early round gains made by your fi roiding fleet, will simply be robbed by cath/xan frigate fleets. Its zero loss for caths.

Where is the bs fleet gone?? With the new de roid fleet, evry race has a lower eta anti de defence ship. I see there being alot of fireblade, viper, cimera around.

Its seems a little too hostile for zik. I think the stats maker has tried to ballance em a bit more by giving two lower eta roid fleets, but I feel that this will only mean that ziks will have roids more often and thus get hit more often.

Ok most of you will say and I do agree, that once the ziks getg off the ground and steal shipps, they have great fun. Sometimes this is harder to do that most ppl think. So it will depend on your level of commitment to the game.

After many rounds being zik, Ive decided to play xan. Main reason dont have to think too much about playin them. So its a little less stressful than playing zik.

My attack fleet will just be arrowheads and daggers. I will add phantoms where neccessary. I'm not going to build any def ships until I get incs. This will keep my value down to get max xp gains from the first attacks.

I will only res 2 classes of ships in the first 150t, this will leave me open to terrans, cos i can't build anti bs. I dont think I will build the 3rd class for a good while. Just concentrate on my growth res. [time travel + mining] cons [ finance centres + res labs + distorter]

I will fake co as frigates a lot mid round.

just my 2c

tsm
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 11:55   #112
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
I'm a zik player at heart, but this round I see a few major problems with them. The primary one is that they are the terran of last round.
The problem with Terran last round was that they couldn't send alliance defense. There were no ships worth building for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the Interceptor being marginally useful, both the Clipper and Buccaneer being very popular as will the Rogue. Now, I agree that since many of these ships are pod-classed, they're somewhat less than ideal, but unlike Terran, Zik have a very strong motivation to send defense.

Quote:
No anti frigate until bs. So early round gains made by your fi roiding fleet, will simply be robbed by cath/xan frigate fleets. Its zero loss for caths.
Raise your hand if you built Corsairs last round. Anyone? Anyone?

(Ok, so people built them for the first 200 ticks or so, until they realized they did **** all to stop Tzen incoming.)

Quote:
Where is the bs fleet gone?? With the new de roid fleet, evry race has a lower eta anti de defence ship. I see there being alot of fireblade, viper, cimera around.

Its seems a little too hostile for zik. I think the stats maker has tried to ballance em a bit more by giving two lower eta roid fleets, but I feel that this will only mean that ziks will have roids more often and thus get hit more often.
That wasn't really what I intended with giving them those two fleets, but I'll grant that I'm not terribly happy with the way Zik turned out. That's not a commentary on how good or bad they are, but simply on what classes fire on what, and where pods are. I don't believe Zik got the short end of the stick, though if their numbers stay this high, I suspect it'll be moot; the most common race is generally the most victimized.

I'd advise all alliances to make sure your members are diversified.

Quote:
My attack fleet will just be arrowheads and daggers. I will add phantoms where neccessary. I'm not going to build any def ships until I get incs. This will keep my value down to get max xp gains from the first attacks.
I know a few alliances that would kick you for that
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 14:37   #113
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
I know a few alliances that would kick you for that
I agree if he did it the entire round he would, but keeping resources and not having a def fleet/ship aren't exclusive. It's fairly good to not build def ships until you get your first incs since scans wont be around allowing for destruction of the attacker and no def fleets need to be sent giving away coords.
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Unread 27 Jan 2006, 14:48   #114
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Re: Call For Comments: Round 16 beta stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned

Raise your hand if you built Corsairs last round. Anyone? Anyone?

(Ok, so people built them for the first 200 ticks or so, until they realized they did **** all to stop Tzen incoming.)

One allymate of mine had 35k Corsairs last round. And it worked very fine for him. I think he was up to 40k at one time
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