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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 19:52   #1
acropolis
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Physics Question
Pretty simple really.

Q: To what degree does g vary from place to place on earth, and am I right in claiming that that variation could be a limiting factor in determining the mass of objects using a standard digital lab scale?


We've got one that reads out to four decimal places, and while I think that's fine for getting ratios, I don't think all four can be used for mass. Which is confusing because it reads in grams and grams are a mass unit.
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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 20:00   #2
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Correct. I hear g at the pole is approx 1.004 times g at the equator. But those scales have that "TARE" facility to calibrate.
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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 20:01   #3
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I don't think the variance would be significant to worry about (unless you really require the precision), but I think a balance scale would be better way to determine mass.


sorry, I know it's not really what you are asking -it's been a few too many years since my physics classes
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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 20:02   #4
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ok this is prolly 100% wrong but it is an educated guess. you must remeber i dotn do degree or A level science i have only done GCSE science/physics and i got A* for it.
the answer to your question to my knowlage is this

the varyation of graity is a very slight varyation and is only differnet on hig and low areas IE brimingam england has stronger gravity than that on the top of mount snowden in wales(if i have my geograhy right) the avrage gravity is 10newtons. the closer to the core of the earth the stronger gravity is. and also if the earht span faster by some fluke of nature gravity woud increase or if the earth grew bigger. there are differnt variables that can cause gravitations rise and fall. the mass of a planet is one and the speed at which it rotatse is the other.

i must warn you this is a GCSE level answer and prolly not what you are looking for. im sure there is soemone doing a degree here that will make my answer correct or atleast expand on it and correct any mistakes if any in my answer
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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 20:04   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Correct. I hear g at the pole is approx 1.004 times g at the equator. But those scales have that "TARE" facility to calibrate.
doesn't tare just shift the 0 point?

hmmm. i guess there's a long calibration right after you've turned it on when it could be running a test weight of known value.
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Unread 9 Jul 2003, 20:04   #6
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wow there were 2 posts between the point of me thinking and writeing out my post.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 07:48   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by warrmr

the closer to the core of the earth the stronger gravity is.

and also if the earht span faster by some fluke of nature gravity woud increase.

you got an A*???

Oh. My. God.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 07:50   #8
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incidentally, it would vary slightly, but I couldn't quantify it for you.

It will probably be a very small bit of a fraction of a percent though.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 08:11   #9
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you got an A*???

Oh. My. God.
dont be mean to the young chap
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 08:12   #10
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dont be mean to the young chap
it's not him that is the problem, it's the state of our education.

back when I were a lad, I would get beaten to near death with a pair of hobnail boots for saying such a thing.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 08:24   #11
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it's not him that is the problem, it's the state of our education.

back when I were a lad, I would get beaten to near death with a pair of hobnail boots for saying such a thing.
Im pretty sure that was the level of exams for GCSE when I were a lad 7 odd years ago. We were taught to a higher standard but the exams were pretty damn simple.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 09:59   #12
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Quote:
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you got an A*???

Oh. My. God.
yes i did and that was at GCSE level as i said i didnt do A or degree level therfore the answer is prolly not that accurate
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 10:10   #13
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the exams were pretty damn simple.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 11:17   #14
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Depends on what the objects you are weighing are and the accuracy of the scales?

For example if the objects were paper, or anything hydroscopic, you would have to make sure the conditions at point A and Point B were the same temperature and humidity.
As you will see the paper's properties changing as they absorb or loose moisture based on the surrounding conditions.

The accuracy of the lab scales i use are calibrated to UKAS class 0.5 at three decimal places.
If i use these scales i'm sure the inheriant variation in the scales would not be accurate enough.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 11:21   #15
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Gravity is the same everywhere in the universe.

(P.S. Pi is exactly three.)
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 11:24   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Gravity is the same everywhere in the universe.

(P.S. Pi is exactly three.)
are you getting all biblical on me now?
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 11:25   #17
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are you getting all biblical on me now?
If there were no gravity in space, God's beard would flap around all over the place.
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:34   #18
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F = GMm/r^2

F-Force
G-constant
M-mass of object with gravitational field
m-mass of object having gravitational field acting on it
r-distance between centres of objects

As F = ma (gravity is an acceleration)
g = GM/r^2

therefore you can see that it does differ where you are on the earth but the change in r is so small it will rarely affect g.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:41   #19
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:45   #20
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Quote:
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If there were no gravity in space, God's beard would flap around all over the place.
heh, next it will be turtles all the way down.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:46   #21
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Tare cannot possibly compensate for the effect of change in force due to differing gravitational fields on a set mass. Like acropolis said, it basically shifts zero on a linear scale.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:47   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
If there were no gravity in space, God's beard would flap around all over the place.
No it wouldn't because God is a gas, you ignorant fool.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:49   #23
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No it wouldn't because God is a gas, you ignorant fool.
2 Kings 4:19 says he's an old man with a beard.
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He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:53   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Tare cannot possibly compensate for the effect of change in force due to differing gravitational fields on a set mass. Like acropolis said, it basically shifts zero on a linear scale.
Yeah, ok. Cos it's used to measure additional weight in a test-tube and stuff. I dunno then.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:54   #25
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2 Kings 4:19 says he's an old man with a beard.
Lies

God is a gas.

How else can he be everywhere?
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:55   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Lies

God is a gas.

How else can he be everywhere?
He's very big.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:58   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
He's very big.
But that means if there's gravity his beard will get pulled towards the center of his body.

Clearly god is a gas. A really really really diffuse blob of gas that fills the universe.

That's how there can be other things in the same space.

You obviously don't know anything about modern physics.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 12:59   #28
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Quote:
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But that means if there's gravity his beard will get pulled towards the center of his body.
Gravity always pulls downwards.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 13:00   #29
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Gravity always pulls downwards.
lol
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 13:04   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
Gravity always pulls downwards.
the tragedy is, I see arguments like this on a christian forum I frequent.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 13:14   #31
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the tragedy is, I see arguments like this on a christian forum I frequent.
Please provide linkage!
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 13:23   #32
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the tragedy is, I see arguments like this on a christian forum I frequent.
why do you frequent a christian forum ?
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 13:26   #33
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why do you frequent a christian forum ?
debate. there isn't enough of it here anymore, so I thought I would find a bunch of people who I held a diametrically opposite viewpoint to.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 14:09   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Tare cannot possibly compensate for the effect of change in force due to differing gravitational fields on a set mass. Like acropolis said, it basically shifts zero on a linear scale.
But if there was something inside that had been premeasured to be exactly 100 grams, and it automatically measured that whenever the scale was turned on, and set 100 grams to the 100 gram and 0 to the 0...I just have doubts that that is how they do it.

If not, then in absolute terms our 4-digit scale is only good (in absolute terms out to the 2nd significant figure. Pretty crap really.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 14:23   #35
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What you need is a nice precise block of, say, platinum kept at constant temperature.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 15:00   #36
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Quote:
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But if there was something inside that had been premeasured to be exactly 100 grams, and it automatically measured that whenever the scale was turned on, and set 100 grams to the 100 gram and 0 to the 0...I just have doubts that that is how they do it.

If not, then in absolute terms our 4-digit scale is only good (in absolute terms out to the 2nd significant figure. Pretty crap really.
You'd need two control weights to find out what of the error is in a differing g and what by additional mass in the mechanism or container.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 15:11   #37
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sayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nice
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Originally posted by W
You'd need two control weights to find out what of the error is in a differing g and what by additional mass in the mechanism or container.
This is starting to sound dangerously like hard work.
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Unread 10 Jul 2003, 15:15   #38
MrL_JaKiri
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Just have exactly one mole of carbon 12.
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