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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 20:38   #1
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Alliance members

As an alliance member many things has changed since the early days of PA, progress in some eyes – lesser influence in others etc…

Alliances today (the major ones) are governed by mostly skilled people who played this game for several rounds and they know how to “do things” if you get my drift!?

The point of this thread is to put the finger on only one thing that to a “normal” member have changed more dramatically then other alliance stuff.

In the early days members were ordered to meetings were they could vote on who they should go to war on or which alliance they should support etc.

I dare to say that today the single member have less or to be honest absolutely nothing to do with PA politics, all the politics are run by officers who do as they like and the rest have to follow. The ordinary member frankly puts their PA round into some HC:s hands.

This might be all good or for that matter a way that PA had to take?

At least it seems like a subject to discuss?
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 20:41   #2
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Re: Alliance members

lol.. I don't know what alliance you were in that "voted" on who they were to attack and not. I have been around since forever (just not played any of the pax rounds), and I have never been in such an alliance. I think the normal member doesn't really care, or he would make his own alliance or join a different one.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 20:46   #3
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Re: Alliance members

Even the really poor alliances I was part of didn't have meetings to decide strategy. I recall voting on new HCs but nothing else.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 21:13   #4
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Re: Alliance members

Erm, at least try to play along here dudes and save the flames to my other none serious threads: P

I’ve been here since round 3 and yes I been attending members meetings were the question/votes was about how we the members should act on serious alliance issues.
I’m not saying those were the good times only that today things are a little bit different to say the least.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 21:37   #5
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Re: Alliance members

Go solo then.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 21:46   #6
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virall
Go solo then.


Sr, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 21:50   #7
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Sr, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.

rofl

That almost deserves a pos rep.
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 22:33   #8
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Sr, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.
made me giggle, iirc, i played with virall in r6, and he already been playing for some rounds back then
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 22:49   #9
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Re: Alliance members

Please don’t lose focus from the subject
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Unread 30 Aug 2005, 23:10   #10
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Re: Alliance members

In alliances i have run, since round 1, i do the declaring war. It is a perk of the game.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 00:02   #11
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
In alliances i have run, since round 1, i do the declaring war. It is a perk of the game.
Then again, even if you are not running an alliance, you still declare wars
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 00:31   #12
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Re: Alliance members

Alliance memberships have never really determined politics for their alliance - at least not directly. The HC of an alliance must sometimes take the wants and needs of their membership into account - but they rarely decide the direction of politics. If a member is unhappy with their alliance's political direction, they can just leave it.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 01:02   #13
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Re: Alliance members

Very true indeed but nowadays the members rarely knows about who the enemies is they only follows the DC into a gal raid and doesn’t know about that gals whereabouts.


That in my mind is kind of sad.

Ofc everyone could follow the PA Forums discussions…..

Before almost every member had an opinion about “things” today most leave that to the officers to worry about.

The game are now in my mind more like in 2 dimensions – one being a regular member (who doesn’t care as long as the DC supplies him with nice targets) and one as a alliance officer who are more involved with politics stuff etc…

The gap between an alli member and an allie officer have become larger!?
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 01:22   #14
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Re: Alliance members

democracy really isn't the way to go for the sake of idiocy running rampant. (ofcourse there's a good risk of that with having incompetant hc too)
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 07:34   #15
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Re: Alliance members

you can use democracy in pa as long as youre a small bg and you know each of the members since pa started.
otherwise there are a severak problems with having democratic decisions:

* spying: its hard nuff to keep an officer and hc team free of intentional or unintentional spies
* idiocy: if i am hc or officer i wouldnt want my members to commit me to some stupid move which in the end (after the round) will still be seen as my fault if something went wrong
*time: this is a fast moving game if youve got to call a meeting for every bigger decision youll not be able to keep up

if that isnt nough then lets remember that hc and officer put in a lot of work, one of their rewards for that is their ability to influence the politics and contrary to what you said, if a member is active and helps the alliance, he will have a certain influence too. Therefore making meetings that enable each inactive monkey to vote on politics is just plain stupid.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 08:50   #16
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
I’ve been here since round 3 and yes I been attending members meetings were the question/votes was about how we the members should act on serious alliance issues.
I really would love to know which alliance(s) this was....

None of the alliances I was in did that...
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 10:56   #17
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Re: Alliance members

you cannot let the inmate's run the asylum and hope to have long term success..

it's as dangerous as the old "too many Chiefs, and not enough indians" scenario... as we said in the Army.. there's light green, and there's dark green..... It takes a certain type of person to command others successfully, and not everyone has the ability to do so.....

some people are happy being led,others prefer to lead, this is true in gaming communities as it is in real life..... voting in a gaming community not only takes forever, it also means your leaders turn into glorified secretaries, and no true leader would be satisfied with that

People in positions of authority in PA who are in successful alliances generally have many rounds of experience and are able to seperate the here and now from the overall big picture, this is what seperates them from the soldier. A lot of players prefer to point and shoot, and leave the politics for others, it's by no means a slam to those players, it's their preference
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 11:08   #18
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Re: Alliance members

An alliance governed by democracy isnt gonna work very well in a fast timed game like this. However, I really feel that is important to inform the members of what the alliance is doing. Having meetings often can help for this. So maybe a regular member cannot get the deciding voice on an alliance's positions, but he can atleast know what's going on and ask questions and get answers from his alliance's HC.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 11:58   #19
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
I’ve been here since round 3 and yes I been attending members meetings were the question/votes was about how we the members should act on serious alliance issues.
I’m not saying those were the good times only that today things are a little bit different to say the least.
I've been around sinice round 2 and havent been in an alliance that has asked there alliance who we should go to war with etc... Just got told to who we where at war with.

Only thing that has changed in my mind is that solo attacks are a lot more rarer and alliances are more compact and organized.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 12:38   #20
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah02
I've been around sinice round 2 and havent been in an alliance that has asked there alliance who we should go to war with etc... Just got told to who we where at war with.

Only thing that has changed in my mind is that solo attacks are a lot more rarer and alliances are more compact and organized.
An alliance asking its members what political course to take is imo rediculous and bound to fail.

I'd also like to know what alliance MotoX is talking about because well ... it can't be a good alliance if that's their political strategy.

What members however CAN do is put the pressure on the HC's to act in the best interest of their alliance and to justify their actions. That is what members can and should demand from their command, rather then blindly following orders.

Ofcourse this does not mean an HC should report every little decision he makes, but he should be able to answer it and justify it when asked for (which is easy if you do what you think is best for your alliance).

I agree that solo attacks are less common then in the early days simply because they don't pay off anymore.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 12:49   #21
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Re: Alliance members

Ive been in alliances where HC sometimes asked officers and such if they had any preferences of partners for next round, but nothing more than that.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 14:26   #22
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Re: Alliance members

lol I would never pressure a HC to do something just kick me and be with out an alliance for 72 ticks :/
Not like the old days when you could where a tag for so long till someone notices and says hang on ur not in my alliance
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 14:27   #23
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Ive been in alliances where HC sometimes asked officers and such if they had any preferences of partners for next round, but nothing more than that.

By partners do you mean Buddy Pack with?
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 14:48   #24
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Very true indeed but nowadays the members rarely knows about who the enemies is they only follows the DC into a gal raid and doesn’t know about that gals whereabouts.


That in my mind is kind of sad.
In the old days of block wars, everyone knew who "the enemy" was (unless you were in NoS r4 ). That's because the sides were decided before the round started and, if they changed at all, they changed maybe once or twice during the course of the round.

Because of this, you could easily build up an understanding of who the enemy was and even start to "hate" that enemy - think back to how much people "hated" Legion/Fury, for example. Now, the game is much more fluid (and better for it). Alliiances can change their targetting on a daily basis. When they do so, they have to keep that information as secret as possible, to prevent the new enemy from being warned about the attack.

This round has had only one permanent conflict - 1up vs. LCH. The other alliances have changed their targetting very frequently, and even 1up and LCH went some nights without hitting each other. I think this is a good thing because the alternative would be block wars.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 14:53   #25
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah02
By partners do you mean Buddy Pack with?
No, i have not played in any round with buddy packs. This was back in r8 or something.
Back then it was full fledged alliances
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 17:28   #26
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah02
By partners do you mean Buddy Pack with?
i think he means like allies for the forthcoming round m8
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 17:39   #27
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
In the old days of block wars, everyone knew who "the enemy" was (unless you were in NoS r4 ). That's because the sides were decided before the round started and, if they changed at all, they changed maybe once or twice during the course of the round.

Because of this, you could easily build up an understanding of who the enemy was and even start to "hate" that enemy - think back to how much people "hated" Legion/Fury, for example. Now, the game is much more fluid (and better for it). Alliiances can change their targetting on a daily basis. When they do so, they have to keep that information as secret as possible, to prevent the new enemy from being warned about the attack.

This round has had only one permanent conflict - 1up vs. LCH. The other alliances have changed their targetting very frequently, and even 1up and LCH went some nights without hitting each other. I think this is a good thing because the alternative would be block wars.

I totally agree on this.



Downside would then be that member’s isn’t that interested in politics or even who they attack - defend (they could even be ordered to defend some friendly allies planets without them knowing) etc as long as they can count in new roids in the morning.

In early rounds most of the IRC talks was about which allie to attack or which allie to support etc….. those talks have been put aside and are now done in closed HC chans…

The PA member of today misses out on some really fun alliance discussions,

Btw, If I remember correctly and not totally misplaced my brain today I think we had open talks/meetings in both 4S and ROCK !?
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 18:24   #28
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Sr, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.
Sir, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.
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Unread 31 Aug 2005, 18:34   #29
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Re: Alliance members

dam
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 01:08   #30
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Re: Alliance members

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Originally Posted by Jester
Sir, you haven’t been here for long so your comment isn’t valid.
hush newbie...
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 01:10   #31
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Re: Alliance members

c7r sucks.
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 03:00   #32
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Re: Alliance members

What zhil said for the win!
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 12:42   #33
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Alliance memberships have never really determined politics for their alliance - at least not directly. The HC of an alliance must sometimes take the wants and needs of their membership into account - but they rarely decide the direction of politics. If a member is unhappy with their alliance's political direction, they can just leave it.
Round 4, Xanadu members decided which way we would go; stick with Legion or go with NoS/Cell. Was not a HC decision
Having said that, I don't think Xanadu ever really cared much about the political aspect. Blunt warfare was more or thing
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 15:22   #34
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Re: Alliance members

Only democratic scenario Ive been part of is "Do you want to win or not?" Only that is based soley on what the "member" wants. BGs the democracy thing works to a degree. But no respectable alliance will base every decision on what the majority of the members want. Also so far I have yet to be told to do something that I didnt know what it was for. If my alliance is at war...they tell me. I never have to use guesswork. I know my mission, I fulfill it. Checks and balances. So in essence the success is based completely on what the members decide to do, so in arguement we as peons have all the power in the world
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Unread 1 Sep 2005, 19:29   #35
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Re: Alliance members

hypothetically IF an alliance formed based on the principle of Democracy, with an experienced core of players, it could possibly have success, but democracy based on the election of it's leaders, maybe electing them every round, or two round terms etc. Like most democratic governments, those leaders would make policy based on the needs/wants of their constituants, and that policy would also be subject to vote. I've seen this work in other games, however in PA it would be a tested theory, at some point it would get boring and trying. You'd spend more time debating and holding votes than you would playing PA itself. Just don't have the player base now in my opinion. In the early days when it wasn't a big stretch to have alliances with a few hundred members, provided they had some level of discipline and activity, it could be possible, but with todays PA memberbase it would be a big waste of time and effort
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Unread 2 Sep 2005, 17:06   #36
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
Round 4, Xanadu members decided which way we would go; stick with Legion or go with NoS/Cell. Was not a HC decision
Having said that, I don't think Xanadu ever really cared much about the political aspect. Blunt warfare was more or thing
Fury membership was always fairly divided (based on their own galaxies) to political decisions. Some members would never have been convicned to a Fury/Xanadu partnership (that was suggested for r7) plus it would have just been bad for the game
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Unread 2 Sep 2005, 21:41   #37
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Re: Alliance members

the US government didnt ask the public if they should attack iraq or not wonder what the result woulda been... thats why HC's are there in the first place, to make the decisions
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Unread 2 Sep 2005, 21:47   #38
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
c7r sucks.
Thats c7R, tard boy
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Unread 6 Sep 2005, 22:53   #39
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Re: Alliance members

A deomcratic PA would be boring and too hippy like. Since this is a war game you need strong leadership that can make the harsh and crude calls that some people even in a web based browser game cannot make. Voting would for leadership would suck since you could have a wanker get all his friends to vote him in and he could totally suck at a leadership role. Imperialism is the way to go in PA. You do not have to make friends with everyone and try to build a hippy coalition <r2 bluetuba had like 12+ naps covering every letter of the alphabet>. The trick is to keep everyone off your back while you build up and own and expand but then feed off of your weaker allies however it is also wise to think of the next round so you will also want to keep a few of them on your side so that you will not go in with everyone on your nuts. Exception was in r6 when Legion and fury had everyone and their aunt on them but that was simply because the Great alliances were so feared and people were sick of us winning. Kinda ironic though the other rounds where other great alliances were won the members were mainly ex fury, ex Legion, ex LDK and ex Titans.
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Unread 6 Sep 2005, 23:40   #40
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic
Thats c7R, tard boy
OMG, It's Cryptic!
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Unread 6 Sep 2005, 23:53   #41
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillGhost
OMG, It's Cryptic!
OMG it's KillGhost !

" what are u waintin for ...... christmas ? :xmas: "
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Unread 6 Sep 2005, 23:55   #42
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filth
the US government didnt ask the public if they should attack iraq or not wonder what the result woulda been... thats why HC's are there in the first place, to make the decisions
and that's why you have only been HC for 2 weeks in VsN ! :eek:
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Unread 7 Sep 2005, 00:31   #43
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Re: Alliance members

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
OMG it's KillGhost !

" what are u waintin for ...... christmas ? :xmas: "
I want j00 for christmas! /me huggles jupp.
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