So much for the original PA ethics

[Oghy]

posted by Spinner
Many thanks to Syn_Sid for his work on the brand new stats on all ships, we will release these as soon as they are finished enough to be worth handing out.

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

ANNOUNCEMENT

A new alliance will be entering the fray next round - with myself at the helm. This is NOT Fury reforming, although some of the faces in the alliance will be very familiar to ex-Fury members.

So... The HC and CEO of what appears to be one of the top alliances of round 11 seems to be fully involved in the development of round 11 and actually created the shipstats (or played a mayor role in its development)

Well so much for having a clear line between pa team and the players...
I guess we await a nice, unbiased and balanced round 11...

Not allowing pa-team to play the game seriously is one thing... but heh...
So whats next? Alliance HC's with admin access?

[Seth Mace]

I'm sure its in good faith

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Oghy

So... The HC and CEO of what appears to be one of the top alliances of round 11 seems to be fully involved in the development of round 11 and actually created the shipstats (or played a mayor role in its development)

Well so much for having a clear line between pa team and the players...
I guess we await a nice, unbiased and balanced round 11...

Not allowing pa-team to play the game seriously is one thing... but heh...
So whats next? Alliance HC's with admin access?

What is the point of this thread exactly?

Are you a lynch mob for Spinner or Sid? Spinner for daring to ask someone experienced with ship stats for help? Or Sid for daring to help out? Seriously, grow up. I honestly doubt Sid or Spinner are conspiring against people here and also doubt Sid will create a set of stats that only he can understand.

[Rumad]

I am sure sid is very competant at ship stats - I think an information release from spinner shoul dbe made to level the playing field.

[The_Fish]

what a ****ing joke. What possible harm can Sid do by designing the stats? so he gets to see them, before you, but they are the same for everyone, and everyone will have plenty of time to analyse them.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

What is the point of this thread exactly?

Are you a lynch mob for Spinner or Sid? Spinner for daring to ask someone experienced with ship stats for help? Or Sid for daring to help out? Seriously, grow up. I honestly doubt Sid or Spinner are conspiring against people here and also doubt Sid will create a set of stats that only he can understand.

You now exactly what he's saying.
Surely it gives 1up an advantage in planning for next round because they have inside information is the point.
Whether it's true or not is another story as is whether it's right or wrong. I guess that's the point of the thread.

[Razorback]

Only problem the quotes fail to analize how much of sids work actually was implemented and how many ppl worked on the stats alongside him.
Surely we all remember spinner has the last say in the stats (some unholy decisions some rounds ago might remind some of us) and please forgive me, but Shipstats ? "oh noe sid has now 3 more days to analize them, what a big advantage, the round is already won".

Get real dude, i think all players would rather profit from good stats which were known 3 days before the publishing to a single player (i love it how you question sids honor here), admittingly long time before signups or even roundstart, Instead of some crap stats which are unplayable and give no joy to anyone.

I would know in which of the 2 scenarios i would invest my money.

[Forest]

Of c there is no inside information, stats will be fully available to all once the group of testers have finshed testing and fine tuning them.

Sid was asked because he is l33t at ship stats, and he is certainly not the only person who is doing testing, as we ahve guys form most alliances. I even see a ND guy there atm testing, stew.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Oghy

So... The HC and CEO of what appears to be one of the top alliances of round 11 seems to be fully involved in the development of round 11 and actually created the shipstats (or played a mayor role in its development)

Well so much for having a clear line between pa team and the players...
I guess we await a nice, unbiased and balanced round 11...

Not allowing pa-team to play the game seriously is one thing... but heh...
So whats next? Alliance HC's with admin access?

I helped design the ships for round 6 while at the same time Senior Officer for Deus. No one complained then. At the time Petru (leader of the ship team) was coming out of (or going into, I can never remember) a command position in Wrath.

Petru again headed the ship team during the round 7 beta when he was HC of RaH.

And guess what, we got good ships then too.

SO ****ING SHUT THE **** UP YOU WHINING ****HEAD.

[TAFKAJ]

Originally Posted by Oghy

So... The HC and CEO of what appears to be one of the top alliances of round 11 seems to be fully involved in the development of round 11 and actually created the shipstats (or played a mayor role in its development)

Well so much for having a clear line between pa team and the players...
I guess we await a nice, unbiased and balanced round 11...

Not allowing pa-team to play the game seriously is one thing... but heh...
So whats next? Alliance HC's with admin access?

From what planet do u come from? I guess you are forgetting that the PA team NEEDS the players to help them with changes for a new round. this for the simple fact that if they won't, many people will quit because too much was changed what they didnt like. I love the idea that Syn_Sid is doing it. This way someone with lots of experience gets the chance to give his view of the game. And besides he will get the ship stats as balanced as possible. And everyone else is right 1up WONT have any advantage over the rest of the allies as the stats are stil l tested and might change.....

[Cochese]

I remember a time when utterly shite trolls like this were deleted from the boards entirely.

Ah yes, now I remember why I left...

[TehVader]

Originally Posted by Forest

Of c there is no inside information, stats will be fully available to all once the group of testers have finshed testing and fine tuning them.

Sid was asked because he is l33t at ship stats, and he is certainly not the only person who is doing testing, as we ahve guys form most alliances. I even see a ND guy there atm testing, stew.

Only one?

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Cochese

I remember a time when utterly shite trolls like this were deleted from the boards entirely.

Ah yes, now I remember why I left...

That would require more mods on PA forums than just myself and Ultimate Newbie :

If someone *cough*JJ*cough* would actually take the many obvious hints and actually appoint some new mods perhaps things like this would get immeditaly deleted but hes either too inactive or just cba to sort it.

Anyway see no point in closing it now, so will leave it open unless it gets out of hand

Oh and Forest or someone on the testing team, how many people are actually involved in testing atm?

[K-W]

Bannned wins this thread, someone close it now.

[Rumad]

actually i thin your all jumping o th wrong conclusions.

Clearly sid does have information at hand that no other alliance does. I made the same comment when Petru did the stas and I still think it gives the one alliance of that hc a has stats and information about the round tahta ll a re not privvy to a planning advantage.

[wakey]

I must admit any knowledge of the upcoming round is a major advantage at this stage. I mean theres 5 or so days of the round left and we know very little of the structure for r11 which is making planning for next round hard. Really stats should be announced as soon as the beta testing starts and as should the game structure to allow for planning so that everyone has the same knowledge even if they arent in the beta

[K-W]

Rumad do you have proof that sid has information no other alliance has? I havent seen any yet.

Meanwhile the advantage is real but it is very very small. You and wakey are overblowing the fact that sid gets to number crunch and plan for a little while longer. And since, as far as I know, other alliances have people in similar positions, it isnt a big deal at all.

Its good to keep aware of these things, there is a potential for abuse, but having a good game is what matters and I think that spinner is wise to use the resources of experienced players.

[wakey]

K-W: My problem isnt so much with Sid having access to the stats, its the fact that theres only a selet group who really know anything about the structure of next round leaving many alliances with no clue on what they need to do to get ready for r11, what makes this worse is that those who are in the know are generally those in 'bigger' alliances, the alliance whom probally can adapt quicker. The smaller people are left in the cold.

All i'm saying is if stats, game structure, forumula ect ect are available to the testers they should also be made public and changes to them made public as soon as they are given to the testers

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by K-W

Rumad do you have proof that sid has information no other alliance has? I havent seen any yet.

Meanwhile the advantage is real but it is very very small. You and wakey are overblowing the fact that sid gets to number crunch and plan for a little while longer. And since, as far as I know, other alliances have people in similar positions, it isnt a big deal at all.

Its good to keep aware of these things, there is a potential for abuse, but having a good game is what matters and I think that spinner is wise to use the resources of experienced players.

Not overblowing anything - the advantage is real and is there. Should be a level playing field for all.

Nice to see you back btw and look forward to some long threads

[Jackal2112]

my god.. is this for real? i agree that some form of public knowledge should be available when the testing is done, but is it really needed every single person needs to know a full daily report and all inside information about whats being tested and how stats are looking? omg grow up, once the ship stats are out everyone will have days (if not weeks) to 'study' them and get used to them.

and i don't take this 'planning advantage' serious, wth do ship stats have to do with planning your alliance strategy?? who cares who is helping spinner out and from which alliance he is, what matters those people who are helping out know what they are talking about, are experienced and will try to help us all get balanced ships and a good game for r11.

ps. the advantage isn't real, for the simple reason ship stats don't take weeks/months to study. the time after the stats come out before the start of round and the time needed to study them and get used to them doesn't even come close, so, try and explain the 'advantage' here.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

my god.. is this for real? i agree that some form of public knowledge should be available when the testing is done, but is it really needed every single person needs to know a full daily report and all inside information about whats being tested and how stats are looking? omg grow up, once the ship stats are out everyone will have days (if not weeks) to 'study' them and get used to them.

and i don't take this 'planning advantage' serious, wth do ship stats have to do with planning your alliance strategy?? who cares who is helping spinner out and from which alliance he is, what matters those people who are helping out know what they are talking about, are experienced and will try to help us all get balanced ships and a good game for r11.

As long as alliances have that infomation ahead of the usual shortly before the round offerings. And yes it is THAT important. Anything that gives any alliance an advantage should be shared. Thats better for the entire community - not just the few,.

You shoul take the planning advantage serious - or you should if you head up an allaince anyway.

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by Rumad

As long as alliances have that infomation ahead of the usual shortly before the round offerings. And yes it is THAT important. Anything that gives any alliance an advantage should be shared. Thats better for the entire community - not just the few,.

You shoul take the planning advantage serious - or you should if you head up an allaince anyway.

a) you dont give any arguments as to why this information gives an alliance an advantage in the planning process would it be known only to one alliance (which is not the case).

b) the information is only known to a couple of people involved in the testing of the ship stats, alliances do *not* have access to any of these information besides the lucky people who get to help Spinner set them up.

c) i fully agree with you that if any information is available it should be shared between all; and i believe it will be shared once this information actually is shareble. what use would it be to spread unfinished stats?

[wakey]

Your B) is wrong Forest has stated all Betatesters have the stats (and its not just the stats its the general game structure they will have knowledge of) and its info thats useful to everyone. Speaking from personal experiance with so little details I have about the next round I'm stuck in limbo over f-crews r11 plans. Unless the info is forthcoming soon we are not going to struggle to be fully origanised for the next round and other alliances who dont have a betatesters will have the same problem

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by wakey

That would require more mods on PA forums than just myself and Ultimate Newbie :

If someone *cough*JJ*cough* would actually take the many obvious hints and actually appoint some new mods perhaps things like this would get immeditaly deleted but hes either too inactive or just cba to sort it.

Anyway see no point in closing it now, so will leave it open unless it gets out of hand

Oh and Forest or someone on the testing team, how many people are actually involved in testing atm?

Rougly 25 atm, from several alliances. I've counted players from at least 8 different alliances.

Oh and the stats are NOT final yet.

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by wakey

Your B) is wrong Forest has stated all Betatesters have the stats (and its not just the stats its the general game structure they will have knowledge of) and its info thats useful to everyone. Speaking from personal experiance with so little details I have about the next round I'm stuck in limbo over f-crews r11 plans. Unless the info is forthcoming soon we are not going to struggle to be fully origanised for the next round and other alliances who dont have a betatesters will have the same problem

this is more like it.. theres a big difference just between ship stats and the game structure. and yeah i fully agree with you the game structure should be announced as soon as possible. that said i would expect pa crew to make public the size of alliances, if it will be random or private, etc etc. however on ship stats tbh i'd say just sit back and wait for them to be finished. but thats just my opinion..

[Sevrok]

Originally Posted by Oghy

So... The HC and CEO of what appears to be one of the top alliances of round 11 seems to be fully involved in the development of round 11 and actually created the shipstats (or played a mayor role in its development)

Well so much for having a clear line between pa team and the players...
I guess we await a nice, unbiased and balanced round 11...

Not allowing pa-team to play the game seriously is one thing... but heh...
So whats next? Alliance HC's with admin access?

there is one way for us humble ordianary players to deal with it, take down the nice new alliance before it ever gets a chance to pick up steam!

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Sevrok

there is one way for us humble ordianary players to deal with it, take down the nice new alliance before it ever gets a chance to pick up steam!

Or you could just stfu and play the game instead of spamming every thread with your "hey im new but i want to declare war on someone" bollox.

[wakey]

lol apprently the stats are actually being passed around IRC like hotcakes, had a couple of PM's from people on irc pointing me to the location saying its been passed around their alliances. First impressions seem to be WTF was sid thinking with these stats, Zik looks pretty much unstopable.

And I just hope some of these names are just provisional as Bunny and Rabit are rubbish ship names and many simply dont fit in with the rest of the ship names. Oh and why on earth is the ship called Theif a normal ship and not a stealer?

[Hicks]

Focht you should start taking this guy seriously, he humbled both Legion and Fury in Round 2 and there's no reason to suspect he won't do the same again ! *

* Or not.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Sevrok

there is one way for us humble ordianary players to deal with it, take down the nice new alliance before it ever gets a chance to pick up steam!

REVOLT!

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by wakey

lol apprently the stats are actually being passed around IRC like hotcakes, had a couple of PM's from people on irc pointing me to the location saying its been passed around their alliances. First impressions seem to be WTF was sid thinking with these stats, Zik looks pretty much unstopable.

And I just hope some of these names are just provisional as Bunny and Rabit are rubbish ship names and many simply dont fit in with the rest of the ship names. Oh and why on earth is the ship called Theif a normal ship and not a stealer?

Or maybe thats what "unfinished stats" means ?
Or ppl could just simply set you up

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by wakey

nd I just hope some of these names are just provisional as Bunny and Rabit are rubbish ship names and many simply dont fit in with the rest of the ship names. Oh and why on earth is the ship called Theif a normal ship and not a stealer?

^^ this comment just proves why a small team of people should make the stats. ta

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

^^ this comment just proves why a small team of people should make the stats. ta

Wasnt arguing against that, just that once they go on wider release (ie into beta) they should be made public

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Forest

I even see a ND guy there atm testing, stew.

I'm not moaning about that, in fact I wasn't even moaning it all - just pointin out that what he was tryin to say was obvious - I neither agreed/disagreed with it!
I don' play anyway, if I did, ND would be a lot worse!!!

[Sevrok]

Originally Posted by xtothez

REVOLT!

my point exactly if you dont like it do somehting about it! and some one before said i wanted to start so wars cos i was new! firstly i aint new i just returned from a long break and secondly its war game of course i want to start some wars come on guys lets kill some people rather than sititing on our butts hoping some newbie doesnt bite you in the ass because god forbid if one did you wouldnt have a clue how to fight the majority of you are all talk and no guts!

[Barrow|Pony]

hah. but seriously.

I, for one, would like the most qualified people developing and working to the ends of making a better game. I don't care what alliance they're in, I don't care how politically involved they are.

If they have the ability and willingness to contribute to this game, and the creators deem them an appropriate helper, then more power to them.

Shame that people think alliance politics should hamper the development of Planetarion.

[Sevrok]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

hah. but seriously.

I, for one, would like the most qualified people developing and working to the ends of making a better game. I don't care what alliance they're in, I don't care how politically involved they are.

If they have the ability and willingness to contribute to this game, and the creators deem them an appropriate helper, then more power to them.

Shame that people think alliance politics should hamper the development of Planetarion.

i dont think alliance polotics should hamper the development of planetarion, i just think that ship stats need to be revealed to every one at the same time!

[Barrow|Pony]

Originally Posted by Sevrok

i dont think alliance polotics should hamper the development of planetarion, i just think that ship stats need to be revealed to every one at the same time!

Yeah, I agree. the people developing the stats should wear blindfolds.

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

Yeah, I agree. the people developing the stats should wear blindfolds.

Hasn't that been tried in some earlier rounds?

[lokken]

r4 was brilliant in that respect

[Vaio]

What a bunch of paranoid knobs.

All you'll get is a couple of new ships called the ExZHILerator and the SYNTHETICator

Vaio (still hoping for a VAIOlator)

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Vaio

What a bunch of paranoid knobs.
All you'll get is a couple of new ships called the ExZHILerator and the SYNTHETICator
Vaio (still hoping for a VAIOlator)

Wait until r12, where the 44 ships will be named after the 44 remaining players.

[Tis]

Originally Posted by Sevrok

us humble ordianary players

but i thought you were, liek, OMGOMGOMG WTF LEET LEET LEET, and stuff?

[Oghy]

I guess reading between the lines is difficult for most

Stats is one thing, having knowledge of the entire game concept is something else.
Sid already knew off 75 alliance member limit before Spinner posted it... I'm sure thats not the only thing he has inside information about... Surely there's more that gives him advantages over the other alliances.
But by all means ignore this, Sid is your god. Continue your flames

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Oghy

But by all means ignore this, Sid is your god. Continue your flames

Speaking as a player who never had much love for Fury, is not involved in 1up, does not know Sid personally, has no vested interest in PA, shut up. Sid is quite possibly the most qualified person for this position, I certainly can't think of a player with more seniority in so many areas of the game. If you can think of someone better to assist Spinner (and trust me, on ship design he damn well bloody needs an assistant), by all means, front their case. But this mindless bashing of 1up because Sid put in free time to assist in the balancing of the game YOU play is just stupid and counterproductive.

[Tomkat]

Looking at the stats now will give you absolutely no advantage, come round 11. They're constantly changing. You could be given the link now for them, go "oooh, nice stats", then come the round, they'll all be tweaked. Sid doesn't have an advantage by knowing them at all. When he finally finishes them, and does have a possible advantage, they'll be released publicly. So he'll get an advantage of a couple of hours more analysing. Great.

People who aren't on PA team have helped before with the stats. Getting the player's perspective on them is a good idea. Didn't Theamion help with the stats for round 6 or 7, amongst others?

[Oghy]

Originally Posted by Banned

Speaking as a player who never had much love for Fury, is not involved in 1up, does not know Sid personally, has no vested interest in PA, shut up. Sid is quite possibly the most qualified person for this position, I certainly can't think of a player with more seniority in so many areas of the game. If you can think of someone better to assist Spinner (and trust me, on ship design he damn well bloody needs an assistant), by all means, front their case. But this mindless bashing of 1up because Sid put in free time to assist in the balancing of the game YOU play is just stupid and counterproductive.

*sigh*
go read the post you quoted from, You've done so exactly like your quote says... ignoring the above. stats isnt the concern here (only concern is that they are not public)... the stats are merely used as an example...
and correction: I won't play the game :eek:
Futhermore the 'balanced game' was in no way aimed at the shipstats, but at a balance of alliances

Oh and last time anything notable came from sid was in what? round 7?

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Oghy

*sigh*
Oh and last time anything notable came from sid was in what? round 7?

and when was the last time you did something notable ? "heh"

[mist]

Originally Posted by Oghy

I guess reading between the lines is difficult for most

Stats is one thing, having knowledge of the entire game concept is something else.
Sid already knew off 75 alliance member limit before Spinner posted it... I'm sure thats not the only thing he has inside information about... Surely there's more that gives him advantages over the other alliances.
But by all means ignore this, Sid is your god. Continue your flames

but... everyone's known about this for getting on a week, iirc kal told everyone. even before then, people knew there was a fair chance of a change due to teh post that went up about it several months ago.

as for game concept and planning. i'll give you the member limit, as that does need knowing asap. however, what else is there really? there's probably going to be at least a week's signup time when people cna look around the game and change race. what else is there to plan? other than who to block with ofc, and you're not going to get sympathy from me over that problem...

really, this thread is a joke.

-mist

[ParraCida]

Sid has proven that he will use any means necessary to win.

He has farmed, he has betrayed allies and he has organized account swapping in the past. Anyone that does not expect him to take advantage of any information he his privy to needs a head examination. It doesn't matter what he says about it, or what anyone says about it for that matter, he has his entire record against him and you can't just undo all that by a promise.

If the stats like in earlier PA rounds will be made public anyway, I'd say this thread was a big waste of time (not that it would invalidate my previous arguement though), but if the stats will not be published, then there are definatly grounds for complaint.