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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 03:14   #51
HeimdallR
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abort View Post
Why listen to Tia anyways??? Sigh.
Cause jbg won't defend his stats
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 06:10   #52
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Not giving etd any FI/CO was idiotic, no serious ally would want their members to have no eta 7 defense, which is a large part of why I think there are so few etd so far. Still not that many signups, so things could still change. ETD is balanced with regards to attack and defense options, just not ship class options.

Other than that I find these stats very defensive oriented, and therefore predict it will be a fortress round, which I find incredibly boring. So if that is the definition of "balanced' (ie, no one can really attack well by themselves) then I guess these are balanced other than etd, but I can't say I am impressed with stats.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 06:13   #53
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

So you picked a set of balanced stats (proven by a full round) and tweaked them to make them... balanced ???
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 07:33   #54
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
Cause jbg won't defend his stats
Yeah. Shame on you, JBG!
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 07:38   #55
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

So you Call r27 Balanced? Check the %'s for t100

Xan had 37 planets and only 24% of people signing up were xan. So... by that logic Xan was a bit too strong. Considering that WAY more than 24% of t100 was Xan.

Just because the stats don't give playing clear cut Team ups that don't have a weakness doesn't mean that stats wont work out.

As a point to Etd not having a fi/co ships. What does it matter, is fi/co the only thing people care about? what about fr/de or cr/bs 2 other ship types that need to have defense for. So when you complain that etd cant give an alliance a fi/co ship why not ask etd's instead to give a fr/de ship or a cr/bs ship. Stop moaning because etd doesnt fit in with other fi/co races. Learn, Adapt, Deal with it.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 07:47   #56
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Why listen to Tia anyways??? Sigh.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 07:51   #57
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Tia the point you seem to be missing with Etd is that every other race has 1 decent anti ship from each class - apart from ETD so why would anyone go Etd. THey cant help there alliance. Bearing in mind that cath co is extremely strong and so is Zik fi/co. What use are ETD to an allaince if they cant proivide all types of cover. Why would anyone pick ETD when the caths are better at hugging and the xan de is prolly better at cloaking
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 08:23   #58
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Thanks Tia for the formula of balanced stats:
% of race A in top 100 / % of race A in universe = 1

You're a genius !
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 09:32   #59
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So you Call r27 Balanced? Check the %'s for t100

Xan had 37 planets and only 24% of people signing up were xan. So... by that logic Xan was a bit too strong. Considering that WAY more than 24% of t100 was Xan.
Or more good players went Xan. I wish people would stop using meaningless stats to try to prove a point.

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
As a point to Etd not having a fi/co ships. What does it matter, is fi/co the only thing people care about?
No, but if one alliance goes fi/co and another goes fr/de, and hostilities flare up, the fr/de alliance will get FC'ed to death by the fi/co. A race without any fi/co is thus at a disadvantage, unless given major benefits against fi/co in other ways (think 0 loss), and even a small disadvantage can sway a large portion of the player base to pick a different race.

This is one of the main problems with the way PA stats are set up. ETA has such a huge impact on the game that all other stats take a back seat.


Please note, I have not commented on this particular set of stats, I haven't even looked at them. I'm just making some general remarks.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 10:16   #60
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=sve4obtjk0pz8ol

Cath Co vs smaller Etd fr/de

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kmdqypnu6bdlfbd

Zik fi/co Vs smaller Etd Fr/de

So before you start telling me that etd needs a DEF ship to help his/her alliance why dont you look at the stats. Not every bloody planet has at all times anti fi/co , fr/de and cr/bs. So just because etd cant send them at ally eta doesnt mean that they can't prelaunch def, or be sent ingal def. Both of which are used by good player to cover attacks. Just because its NOT easy doesn't mean it should be fixed.

Mz i agree Eta is HUGE in pa and often makes most of the difference in everything. But as DLR proved last round with there De planets when a fleet is about to land have the ally pre-launch fr/de def for 1 tick if there is no fc then no harm done. But once again thats a lot of work for people that are lazy. So get off your $%@ and stop complaining because there are things you can do and be just effective.

Etd this round is a great race. and even if it does turn into a fi/co round i am very certain that etd planets will thrive because they dont have a fi/co ship. and 2 very good ships that emp/kill fi/co. And because there fr is there main attack fleet they will have most of there value in Fr and by that thought they will have a lot of anti fi/co emp. So even if they do get attacked by xan/zik/cath fi/co they are easily defended by other fi/co ships or even ingal brigands/centaur/shadows/Vshrrak.

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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 11:15   #61
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

in other words it's up to the strategy to rebalance the stats you just f*cked up...
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 11:28   #62
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Are you actually going to make actual comment about the stats instead of just say how they "suck" oh these stats are the worst ever... blah blah blah. So far i havent heard a single analytical comment about them.

So unless you have something to actually say on how the stats are bad then please say it otherwise keep your useless flaming and otherwise annoying banter out of this topic.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 16:34   #63
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So far i havent heard a single analytical comment about them.

So unless you have something to actually say on how the stats are bad then please say it otherwise keep your useless flaming and otherwise annoying banter out of this topic.
Mzyxptlk gave a very good analytical comment, and there have been at least several other in the midst of the flaming, so be careful.

With regards to adjusting strategy to fit the stats... allies are, at least so far they are consistently avoiding etd so as to better be able to defend themselves. While no stats ever survive contact with the player base, this omission on your part is up there with me giving a steal ship low initiative back in r21 or r22 (I forget which). Interesting idea in concept, but in action a failure. And it is a failure, the core player base has by and large rejected etd. I know for a fact several allies have banned their members from playing it.

You do deserve the right of seeing how the round plays out before judging the strengths and weaknesses of the stats, but the initial analysis by those of us who have many years of analyzing stats is I think on the whole mixed at best.

I think the only other analytical comment I can make with certainty is this set of stats is very team oriented. It will be very hard late in the round to hit any of the big players without large team ups. To me this makes the stats boring, but I know there are many who disagree, mostly folks who love to fortress. Personally when I do the stats I really like to give every race an Achilles heal that allows smaller planets a shot at soloing bigger planets.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 16:41   #64
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Personally when I do the stats I really like to give every race an Achilles heal that allows smaller planets a shot at soloing bigger planets.
amen
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 17:53   #65
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Mzyxptlk gave a very good analytical comment, and there have been at least several other in the midst of the flaming, so be careful.
Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Please note, I have not commented on this particular set of stats, I haven't even looked at them. I'm just making some general remarks.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 18:07   #66
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Seriously.
Yes seriously, if you quoted the rest of that same comment, it applies very accurately to this set of stats. Just because you haven't looked at the set doesn't mean the analysis doesn't apply.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 18:17   #67
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Except that I didn't actually say anything concrete. So, no.
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 21:59   #68
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

why is Tia showing bcalcs or etd fr vs cath co and zik fi/co???

There ability against them isnt in question its the fact that if an allaince gets any of these incommings the ETD cant help out. And presuming that quite a few calls will be fi/co based this makes the ETD pretty redundant as a defensive unit in the allaince. Thats what we are trying to say Tia
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 22:00   #69
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Also in reference to someones quote my alliance has banned ETD players cos there worthless
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 22:16   #70
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Where's worthless?
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Unread 13 Jan 2011, 23:56   #71
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Bearing in mind that cath co is extremely strong and so is Zik fi/co. g
That is the reason i put the calc up. Because your point of cat co and zik fi/co are strong and yet i gave you a calc that shows what a normal etd fr/de planet would look like vs cat and zik fi/co planets would look like.

Your point of cat co and zik fi/co isnt that valid since the "banned" race beats them. So shut your mouth up kaiba and unless you actually want to talk facts that etd are actually a good race and just cant help your alliance deal with other fi/co incs. Otherwise go find another forum to Troll around on.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 04:55   #72
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

I'm going etd
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 05:16   #73
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

I will sign up tomorrow when im not drunk.

but my opinion, without looking at the stats is... Fi/Co is the way to go! Preferably Xan if they're not completly shit.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 12:52   #74
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

The 2 points I take from this thread are:
Everyone is whining about ETD being useless without a fi/co class ship.
AND, everyone thinks JBG's R27 stats were great. Did anybody notice that in R27, ETD didn't have a fi/co ship?

I think people are complaining because they actually have to THINK about these stats, rather than "Oh look, cath and someone else have a co pod, that'll do, and we'll throw in some zik if they can steal some"

Personally I think this will be an interesting round, and I'm looking forward to playing it...
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 12:54   #75
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Tia - THE STATS SUCKS.

I'll tell you why tomorrow.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 17:29   #76
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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I will sign up tomorrow when im not drunk.

but my opinion, without looking at the stats is... Fi/Co is the way to go! Preferably Xan if they're not completly shit.
Hungover now and checked the stats, Xan Fi/Co is the way to go!

As for people complaining about ETD not being an alliance race, that doesnt mean it isnt balanced. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe ETD is the race to go if you're playing casually/solo or that its the race to go if you're in a noob alliance which doesnt defend much? Not everything has to be balanced for your style of play and your alliance, It has to be balanced as a whole. ETD arnt underpowered at all, they're quiet strong actually.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 17:31   #77
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Hungover now and checked the stats, Xan Fi/Co is the way to go!

I second this motion. However, inter galaxy defenses from those etd destroyers scare me. Also, ETD aren't very viable xandathrii targets, so I predict an anti-ETD race can wind up strong in the juggle, whichever that be. God bless metagame.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 17:38   #78
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So you Call r27 Balanced? Check the %'s for t100

Xan had 37 planets and only 24% of people signing up were xan. So... by that logic Xan was a bit too strong. Considering that WAY more than 24% of t100 was Xan.
This is quiet possibly the worst way you could argue that stats arnt or are balanced.

It doesnt matter how much of the universe went one race and how many ended in the top100. The top100 is decided based on your activity, galaxy, alliance, and round politics more than it is by your race.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 18:58   #79
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Sorry Tia have you missed my point again??? i said in my last post that yes the etd frig fleet and the etd cr fleet looked strong. But what i was getting at was when an eta 7 incomming appears on an alliance defence screen the ETD is redundant and as 3 of the 5 races have prodominatly stronger eta 7 fleets this makes the ETD a race that no serious allaince would its players having as they cant fully contribute to alliance defence
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 19:03   #80
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

i predict etd not getting much fi co waves
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 19:16   #81
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6n1peajiskd6zfu

ETD FR attacking CATH CO

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=nuw9ciacbyeqr29

ETD CR attacking CATH CR/ZIK CR


Etd Cr looks a little stronger but overall i dont see where ETD is better than any of the other races???

Terran FRIG looks a bit stronger and CATH CR AND ZIK BS look a better option too, plus all these races have an eta 7 defence ship.

So why would you even go ETD anyway?
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 20:19   #82
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Sorry Tia have you missed my point again??? i said in my last post that yes the etd frig fleet and the etd cr fleet looked strong. But what i was getting at was when an eta 7 incomming appears on an alliance defence screen the ETD is redundant and as 3 of the 5 races have prodominatly stronger eta 7 fleets this makes the ETD a race that no serious allaince would its players having as they cant fully contribute to alliance defence
So every race has to be viable for your alliances playstyle? what about the solo or casual players? Seems like ETD is awesome for them.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 21:08   #83
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

THe game is allaince dominated Light. The races should ofc be setup up for allaince play
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 21:10   #84
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

The game is not viable for solo play.
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 21:14   #85
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
THe game is allaince dominated Light. The races should ofc be setup up for allaince play
and 4 of them are.

1 is for the more casual player or a player in a smaller alliance where defence is unlikely. ETD is also pretty strong for galaxy oriented players (and there are alot of players who play for there galaxy over there alliance).
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Unread 14 Jan 2011, 21:39   #86
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Some of me wonders if stats with no FI/CO pods would be interesting. Could make the argument that asteroids are too big to be stolen by FI and CO and thereby remove the major tactical advantage of FI/CO pods. Then just make it so each race would have to build FI/CO to cover all their incoming. Could be interesting, maybe I'll try it if I every do the stats again.
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Unread 15 Jan 2011, 04:33   #87
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

in early PA there was only 1 pod class, the FR, no matter which branch in the techtree you had gone for.
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Unread 15 Jan 2011, 08:11   #88
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
in early PA there was only 1 pod class, the FR, no matter which branch in the techtree you had gone for.
Yes it worked great... until the player base figured out that the only ships in the entire game that mattered were the ones that targeted FR. And then the game got rather boring and pods in different classes were invented. In recent rounds the big discovery (if you can call it that) is that unless FI/CO are totally screwed the low eta coupled with the fact you only have one tick to react give FI/CO a big advantage, hence the necessity of the stat maker to take this into account and discourage FI/CO pods enough that alliances choose the higher eta advantage. This round this obviously didn't happen.
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Unread 15 Jan 2011, 10:29   #89
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Yes it worked great... until the player base figured out that the only ships in the entire game that mattered were the ones that targeted FR. And then the game got rather boring and pods in different classes were invented. In recent rounds the big discovery (if you can call it that) is that unless FI/CO are totally screwed the low eta coupled with the fact you only have one tick to react give FI/CO a big advantage, hence the necessity of the stat maker to take this into account and discourage FI/CO pods enough that alliances choose the higher eta advantage. This round this obviously didn't happen.
For example .... don't make BS/CR roiding fleets crap

(pay attention here tia)
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Unread 19 Jan 2011, 08:38   #90
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Paisly i dont know what the "tia pay attention" comment is for. I HATE fi/co rounds but what i hate more is "CO" round. Where every ship focus on just co and fi are ignored. I personally would rather see it more focused towards fr/de or cr/bs. But i think it would a great round to not have any fi/co pods next round. OR!!!! create a 2 tick def ship class for fi/co. like create a new class that defs at eta 6 so that way it removes the fi/co advantage of 1tick def.
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Unread 19 Jan 2011, 08:47   #91
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Could as well give the same universe eta to all classes. Have a difference only for ingal trips:
Eta 5 for FRDE, -1 for FICO, +1 for CRBS
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Unread 2 Feb 2011, 18:15   #92
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Cath co for personal ranks.. and zik for alliance ranks.

Took a look at the stats at amon's.. seriously dudes, think something new for stats. Ridiculous fi/co round prolly as no-one went for zik(cors/brigand/rogue) ally strat if I understood right.. and that means no-one has enough fi/co def fleets as they'r always attacking due to no control even in war times.

Anyways that's my 5c's after 20mins peak at stats. Maybe i'm wrong.. but looks like those where the choices for round if u aimed for ally or p win. Maybe xan can do well aswell.. as I doubt there's enough agression in the game to beat them down early on aka politics factor.
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Unread 6 Feb 2011, 20:17   #93
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Cath CO + Xan/Zik DE I'd say, you more or less likely have to mix FI/CO anyways so why not make if CO/DE and have the strongest ships with you.
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Unread 8 Feb 2011, 11:50   #94
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Re: R40 Shipstats?

Reasonly balanced fi/co stats but fr/de/cr/ship classes just plain suck

(fun for those who like a FI/CO round but not for those who like to have a choice of fleets)
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