Responses from Jolt to your questions.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Rumad

II would reply to this but i really can't be arsed as I find much more drivel in yur posts than anything productive.

First thing to do is have a consistent list of questions. Then you make sure those questions are closed to limited replies.

When you have those you then sen to say all 5k players, sme will respond, ome wont.

You then compile the results using a spreadsheet and you have some market research as to why people don't upgrade.

You can ask it over irc. ask it on the forums (probably inappropriate though) or via email or if your super smart a websitewhich compiles the data for you!

The reason why you close the questions is simply to ensure yu get consistent and applicable reasons.

Suprisingly this will give you a reasonable understanding of how to market pa to pa players. Suprisingly you can get the type of questions from most text books and unsuprisingly you get market data for your sector (age, likes, dislikes etc etc).

As for not turnng up - if thy aren't around I doubt they are playing.

lol drivel in my posts, thats rich coming from you. And I also see you cant actually read as Ive dealt with the problem of doing it that way. You get skewed resulst because the smaller players have had it drummed into them by people like yourself that their view isnt important, they get shot down and insulted by the bigger players everytime they post just because they arent from big alliance circles. They need encouraged to give their view where as the big players give it freely. This means you get a skewed set of results.

Questionaires anyway are the WORST way of gathering data, they are notoriously inaccurate and not normally worth the paper they are written on. The way Kal is doing it is one of the best ways of carrying out a survey and the way most groups carrying surveys out do it

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by wakey

You cant help but have them feel second class citizens, after all ANY upgrade worth paying for will generally have to have some game advantage or offer something they cant get elsewhere.

There is a difference between limiting someone down so that they have no chance to participate in any meaningful way, and giving people who are willing to pay certain advantages. Ship and construction/research queues and prelaunch for example would be a few example features that could be part of the upgrade.

Originally Posted by wakey

The funny thing about all this really is whats the thing that making free account least playable this round, its the lack of galaxy status.

I know, I was against this when it was suggested in the beta, because it would disable free accounts from aiding their galaxy, thus hindering integration.

The counterargument was that it'd stop people from abusing free accounts to spy on galaxy statuses, and be an incentive for players to pay for themselves or galaxy mates.

[Blacknova]

Originally Posted by Leshy

There is a difference between limiting someone down so that they have no chance to participate in any meaningful way, and giving people who are willing to pay certain advantages. Ship and construction/research queues and prelaunch for example would be a few example features that could be part of the upgrade.

I know, I was against this when it was suggested in the beta, because it would disable free accounts from aiding their galaxy, thus hindering integration.

The counterargument was that it'd stop people from abusing free accounts to spy on galaxy statuses, and be an incentive for players to pay for themselves or galaxy mates.

Give the man a cookie

Ship / cons / res queues would be one thing to put in a way of differentiating accounts without mass crippling them, prelaunch I would prefer anihilated outright, however, making defensive prelaunch a requisite of a paid account would be a happy medium.

Gal status can be hobbled in such a way that it can still be useful as a means of integrating with the galaxy WITHOUT giving masses of info away (I don't suppose anyone considered the idea of allowing it to see incoming hostile fleets only, and not "green" fleets until upgraded?)

Another option is simply to blank out co-ords on the galstatus until the account is paid for, a cross between the two would certainly be a valid option at the very least.

And if we're going to make a point of limiting roid researches in any meaningful way, fine, let people research up to say 750 (anyone not in an alliance with more than that is either a genius, lucky, or playing outside the rulebook), but don't let them *buy* over that level, that way the max damage from some bright spark trying to farm a freebie is about 190 rocks... which is a nice snack, but not lethally profitable.

Nova

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Blacknova

Give the man a cookie

Ship / cons / res queues would be one thing to put in a way of differentiating accounts without mass crippling them, prelaunch I would prefer anihilated outright, however, making defensive prelaunch a requisite of a paid account would be a happy medium.

Gal status can be hobbled in such a way that it can still be useful as a means of integrating with the galaxy WITHOUT giving masses of info away (I don't suppose anyone considered the idea of allowing it to see incoming hostile fleets only, and not "green" fleets until upgraded?)

Another option is simply to blank out co-ords on the galstatus until the account is paid for, a cross between the two would certainly be a valid option at the very least.

And if we're going to make a point of limiting roid researches in any meaningful way, fine, let people research up to say 750 (anyone not in an alliance with more than that is either a genius, lucky, or playing outside the rulebook), but don't let them *buy* over that level, that way the max damage from some bright spark trying to farm a freebie is about 190 rocks... which is a nice snack, but not lethally profitable.

Nova

you will like some of the changes in round 12.... more will be said in due course ;D

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by wakey

You get skewed resulst because the smaller players have had it drummed into them by people like yourself that their view isnt important, they get shot down and insulted by the bigger players everytime they post just because they arent from big alliance circles.

I ignored this till this morning becuase this is exactly the sort of DRIVEL i am talking about.

You assume I am the sort of person to insult and push smaller players away. If yu knew anything of my hstory you would know that round 3 and in my other alliances (VEA BC and FAnG) while we did not accept inactive or social players we ver much did allow eager players who were active and wiling to learn. I can poin to several members of this community that I have shown how to play and actually are still playing.

This sort of general statement is exactly why I hold your replies with little or no regard. Get your facts right before you comment please.

As for questionnaires it isnt THAT bad sure it limits the responses, but thats fine in this context as long as enough relevant reasons are given. My view is a lot of smaller free accounts are vets from previous rounds so I think they know there views ARE relevant.

[EDIT apologies to kal for responding on a side issue, but I think that needed clearing up ]

[Kal]

just a ilittle update on my little survey:

some current freebies plan to pay next round
some people activly said they liked doing the survey
some people do not know what the differences between free and paid accounts are <-- this will be addressed for round 12 - someone poke me in the beta if u don't see the evidence then
common reasons for freebies not upgrading: lack of money, no way to pay, to late in the roudn to pay now, not very active so not worth it, difference between paid and free accounts is to small
a common complaint is the lack of galstatus info for free planets <-- this will be addressed in round 12, again poke me in the beta if its not done then
several people said pa was a great game \o/
HR is everywhere, my random sample somehow got loads of them

[Ramihyn]

Kal:

If i where Jolt, i would generate some articial data from the behaviour of free planets and compare them with their upgrade behaviour. I would make sure that i know since when a free planet plays (how many days into the round), how often a day he plays, if he interacts with the rest of his galaxy (politics), if he interacts with other players (messages in game) and with how many, how often does he attack, how often does he get hostile incoming and how often did he get defence from his galaxy or the universe and maybe check if his playtime just doesnt match the rest of the universe. Bring these infos together in a browseable database or a huge spreadsheet with the info if the planet upgraded and when. Stuff like tracking their activity development since the beginning of their signup and compare it with the rest of their galaxies activity development may be interesting too.

I bet you will find several correlations which will enable you to specifically send hints or offer help for players and thereby increase your upgrades.

For example - free planet starts actively, posts in politics, doesnt communicate with outside the galaxy, doesnt get defence from outside the galaxy - his activity drops. You could spot this development automagically and have a community manager or pateam member or whoever, send him a short message pointing him into ways to connect with other people (irc, forums, alliance recruitement) and ways how to leave his galaxy for a better one. You could even offer to put him and a bunch of others with the same problem into a galaxy together (maybe for a fee).

I bet if you do it right and invest some thinking into it, you can get a set of 3 to 5 rules upon which you react and thereby keep some of those people from stopping to play and get them to upgrade their planet.

May need a slight addition/change to the EULA or whatever to legally do it, but that shouldnt be a problem esp. seeing that you would mainly track the data of free players.

A lot useful info is there to use it to your and ultimately the players advantage

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

Kal:

If i where Jolt, i would generate some articial data from the behaviour of free planets and compare them with their upgrade behaviour. I would make sure that i know since when a free planet plays (how many days into the round), how often a day he plays, if he interacts with the rest of his galaxy (politics), if he interacts with other players (messages in game) and with how many, how often does he attack, how often does he get hostile incoming and how often did he get defence from his galaxy or the universe and maybe check if his playtime just doesnt match the rest of the universe. Bring these infos together in a browseable database or a huge spreadsheet with the info if the planet upgraded and when. Stuff like tracking their activity development since the beginning of their signup and compare it with the rest of their galaxies activity development may be interesting too.

I bet you will find several correlations which will enable you to specifically send hints or offer help for players and thereby increase your upgrades.

For example - free planet starts actively, posts in politics, doesnt communicate with outside the galaxy, doesnt get defence from outside the galaxy - his activity drops. You could spot this development automagically and have a community manager or pateam member or whoever, send him a short message pointing him into ways to connect with other people (irc, forums, alliance recruitement) and ways how to leave his galaxy for a better one. You could even offer to put him and a bunch of others with the same problem into a galaxy together (maybe for a fee).

I bet if you do it right and invest some thinking into it, you can get a set of 3 to 5 rules upon which you react and thereby keep some of those people from stopping to play and get them to upgrade their planet.

May need a slight addition/change to the EULA or whatever to legally do it, but that shouldnt be a problem esp. seeing that you would mainly track the data of free players.

A lot useful info is there to use it to your and ultimately the players advantage

u want us to think? damn... i was happy being a brainless drone :/

on a serious note what you describe would require a lot of work and as such would require even more thinking about as it would affect our ability to develop in other areas.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Rumad

I ignored this till this morning becuase this is exactly the sort of DRIVEL i am talking about.

You assume I am the sort of person to insult and push smaller players away. If yu knew anything of my hstory you would know that round 3 and in my other alliances (VEA BC and FAnG) while we did not accept inactive or social players we ver much did allow eager players who were active and wiling to learn. I can poin to several members of this community that I have shown how to play and actually are still playing.

This sort of general statement is exactly why I hold your replies with little or no regard. Get your facts right before you comment please.

As for questionnaires it isnt THAT bad sure it limits the responses, but thats fine in this context as long as enough relevant reasons are given. My view is a lot of smaller free accounts are vets from previous rounds so I think they know there views ARE relevant.

[EDIT apologies to kal for responding on a side issue, but I think that needed clearing up ]

I wasnt talking about if you helped a handful of newbies who were in your alliance but more the general tone of yours and many others here when you post in responce to those new to the forum community. You take this condesending "i'm better than you" kind of attitude, which may be deliberate or may not but its this that puts people off posting here. Ask most small alliance HC's or small players why they rarely venture onto these fourms and when they do go no further than AR and they will tell you one of the main reasons is the hostility they get shown. Its the same on irc and until they are made to feel welcome they simply wont be that willing to voice and opinion. its why an interview way of doing it is ideal BECAUSE they can make sure to the person that their opinions matter.

And yes questionaires are that bad, people dont put effort into a questionaire. I mean how many questionairesdo you fill in that you actually think about, you tick a few boxes that seem like the right responces, write downa few quick responces and such like and at the end of all this you have a whole load of questionaires which were either done blind and you have no idea of the background of the respondant or supplies info but which isnt always verifyable (done tthrough PAMail this is slightly easier but still not perfect for ) This is before you take into account that the responces are limited, cant really be exapanded on ect

You dont need to ask everyone anyway, its just a waste of time and resources. It would be like the TV ratings people asking everyone in the country what they watched and their views on the programs. They simply dont do this, they take a cross section which results in a group who basically represent every part of the community and they ask them, and with fewer people its possible to do it more indepth

[Rumad]

my tone is that of the knowldge and experience i have gained from using these boards and playing pa. As for helping a handful of players i would hazard a guess its much more than that but thats by the by.

I haven't got time to do as full a response as I would like but you are making generalisms you cannot support. If someone counters what I say with a ludicrous or inept reposte you are entitled to respond.

Simply you cannot make generalisms as I think your selling PA players in general short.

As for questionnaires they do what they have to do. Surely its not as qualitative as you and kal would prefer, but you get more much information, it shows much more trends and gives you a good basis to ask on a more qualitative basis.

It will support however quick answers and people are likely to fill them in with a nudge (I never say no to a questionnaire personally)

[hinchles]

rummeh type slower theres more letters missing from that post than there are virgin 14 year olds

it reads like an sms

[Karmulian]

Originally Posted by Kal

this may sound shocking but your post gave me an idea \o/
/me needs to get home from work and think some more

This is the announcements list - it only includes passport/forums announcements rather than motd based announcements that would only be of interest to current players e.g. manual changes. I personally think some of them are pretty informative, and there will obviosuly be more to come in the future on development updates for example. There will also be some announcements on some competitions we have planned. Now you are welcome to suggest other things we should keep the community inforemd about, but I had assumed that development, events, and offical team updates would be the main ones.

Blixxard & an update 3/08/2004 By: A2
Speedgames revealed 24/07/2004 By: Spinner
Development Update 23/07/2004 By: Kal
Counterstrike Tournament 08/07/2004 By: A2
Karmulian, Kal & Xontas 28/06/2004 By: A2
The Mentor Team 27/06/2004 By: Kal
Round 11 started, good luck to everyone 18/06/2004 By: Spinner
New Ship Names 17/06/2004 By: A2
Round11 - Officially Open 09/06/2004 By: Karmulian

if you look at the news page Kal.. you can add multiple catergories .. so you could always make aMOTD one.. and link it from somewhere

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by hinchles

rummeh type slower theres more letters missing from that post than there are virgin 14 year olds

it reads like an sms

about 7 actually (spelling mistakes that is) sorted now for you hinchlemeister herr capitan!