User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 14 Feb 2014, 20:27   #51
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post

So yes I am sorry you did not enjoy this round. Is it because the stats that I made are shitty no, its because you decided to place a race and strat that wasnt going to work in the current meta. Had you done your homework correctly you'd have seen a strong % of zik/ter/cat at the start of the round and said... Hmm one of those races is hard to attack with fi and 2 of them are hard to attack with De maybe I should go something different.

So again we are back to the point of 'hi mister noob your round is ****ed completely because you didnt do extensive homework on a game you have never played before'.....


No matter how much you try and sweet talk us into beleiving Zik is full of holes are not fooled! It is a tank race made by a player who is a notorious defensive Zik player, so well done Tia you managed to con Appoco into letting you play with the perfect setup for yourself, the fact you arent winning is just funny tho
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Feb 2014, 23:08   #52
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Kai there are 4 other races to choose from and given a differ universe meta xan would have been very strong. However being a hard race to defend vs normally its not suprising that people will pick a strat that can beat xan fi.

And I challenge that zik is the strongest race this round, Take a look at the t20 distrution:
Terran 7
Cath 4
Zik 8
Xan 1

Its just as equally terran as it Zik, and looking back I made Terran fr too strong.

As for the whole idea of a new player getting ****ed because they picked Xan well guess that they just cant attack zik as they have roiding fleets vs every other race.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Feb 2014, 23:20   #53
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Kai there are 4 other races to choose from and given a differ universe meta xan would have been very strong. However being a hard race to defend vs normally its not suprising that people will pick a strat that can beat xan fi.

And I challenge that zik is the strongest race this round, Take a look at the t20 distrution:
Terran 7
Cath 4
Zik 8
Xan 1

Its just as equally terran as it Zik, and looking back I made Terran fr too strong.

As for the whole idea of a new player getting ****ed because they picked Xan well guess that they just cant attack zik as they have roiding fleets vs every other race.
You have this race meta because of the stats, arguing about a different one is irrelevant, people have picked to go this way because of the stats you made.

Imo the t20 is a highly unreliable source of strong races as it is full of players who have swathes of players who specifically play to get them rank. What is the current race distribution for the t200? I think that would give a better representation of the active playerbase (dont worry i just checked and 39 of the t100 is zik and 69 of the t200 is zik, compared to 22 ter in t100 and 45 in t200 and 29 cats in t100 and 51 in t200). I think that is quite conclusive that Zik is dominant in this enviroment although ill concede Cat is doing well (tho it mixes with Zik) tho i imagine the emp effs are fubar and helping this.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Feb 2014, 00:32   #54
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
You have this race meta because of the stats, arguing about a different one is irrelevant, people have picked to go this way because of the stats you made.

Imo the t20 is a highly unreliable source of strong races as it is full of players who have swathes of players who specifically play to get them rank. What is the current race distribution for the t200? I think that would give a better representation of the active playerbase (dont worry i just checked and 39 of the t100 is zik and 69 of the t200 is zik, compared to 22 ter in t100 and 45 in t200 and 29 cats in t100 and 51 in t200). I think that is quite conclusive that Zik is dominant in this enviroment although ill concede Cat is doing well (tho it mixes with Zik) tho i imagine the emp effs are fubar and helping this.
Looking back at tick 1, did yourself expect it to be any diffrent?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Feb 2014, 09:40   #55
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Looking back at tick 1, did yourself expect it to be any diffrent?
This horrible stat set is a large reason as to why i dont have a planet this round. No i didnt expect it to be any different, comments were made before the round started that this set was crap and atleast needed a big appoco overhaul before round start, which never happened. It was also said back then that Zik was ridiculously OP compared to the rest BUT not everyone reads the forums, probably only a 10th of the playerbase comes here.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Feb 2014, 10:01   #56
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Kai there are 4 other races to choose from and given a differ universe meta xan would have been very strong. However being a hard race to defend vs normally its not suprising that people will pick a strat that can beat xan fi.

And I challenge that zik is the strongest race this round, Take a look at the t20 distrution:
Terran 7
Cath 4
Zik 8
Xan 1

Its just as equally terran as it Zik, and looking back I made Terran fr too strong.

As for the whole idea of a new player getting ****ed because they picked Xan well guess that they just cant attack zik as they have roiding fleets vs every other race.
Just thought I'd quickly revisit this and say there is now 11 ziks in t20, with many more stacked behind waiting to enter. There is only 3 races in the t20 too. Badly balanced stats if ever I saw them
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Feb 2014, 10:09   #57
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

I think the two main issues with these stats are that FR and Mara are too strong, and that there really isn't much in the way of anti CO available at ally-eta. No getting away from those two huge issues.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 14:35   #58
Bobzy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Bobzy is a jewel in the roughBobzy is a jewel in the roughBobzy is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Pretty sure I posted about the problems with Xan on the initial r55 stats thread and got put down by people saying "but lol Xan are cloaked so they rock!!!".

Landing anywhere with Xan is nigh on impossible. Whilst Cath Co/Cr, Ter Fr/Bs and Zik Fr/Cr take multiple fleets to stop, Xan Fi is stopped often by 1 defence fleet (clippers, ghosts, beets) and De by a multitude of standard attacking ships (Vipers, Wyvern, Maras).

A good stat set, irrespective of alliance preference, would see a mix of races in the, say, top 50 of the game. Despite the game consisting of 20% Xan planets, there are 2 in the top 60 (or 3.33%). It's a big enough sign to know that things aren't right.

By all means choose to criticise alliances who choose to go this way, but the game should be playable for any race.
Bobzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 14:40   #59
Clouds
Registered User
 
Clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
Clouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to behold
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

If I had known the stats were this broken, I would've ensured that Vikings took this round off.

I recall in an earlier post that stats are the fundamental resource for this game, and if the stats are bad, you could end up losing players.

I, and many others may have been put off this game completely due to poor broken stats. I suppose I should be thanking Tia and not criticising him. :-)

Last edited by Clouds; 21 Feb 2014 at 21:14.
Clouds is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 19:32   #60
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

I am still waiting for you all to tell me how the stats are broken. Mara being too strong is just a joke. It strong vs XAN! but vs fr at 50% eff? where thief steals at 110% eff. You are just finding anyway to complain because you didnt think about your strat enough when the round started because NOW 1000 ticks into the round you are getting creamed.

When you all started saying Oh fr+ mara and Fr + wyvern i was laughing in my chair because i knew how ineffective mara and wyvern are.

Now what you should be complaining about is the strength of Cath Co. Because that my friends is the strongest fleet out there. It roids everything and requires a big team up to stop, since both zik and terran cant defend cat co with ally eta. and since there are 52 etd's there are no cutters leaving only Xan and cath to defend them. But your not using that as your argument you are just spewing bull****. Clouds I am surprised at you because i talked to you at the start of the round and you were all hot and bothered about your super secret strat of ter/zik fr. Now you come onto SD and bash me with out any evidence. This just looks like a soar loser coming to complaining that EU judge gave you a bad score.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 20:04   #61
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

That's what I said.... cat co and mara+clipper are imba.

With "0" etds in the uni ziks are basically immune versus three races.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 20:22   #62
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

If mara was so weak and you were lolling your pants off when ppl talked about wyverns why is like 65% of the t100 either Terran or Zik.

Maybe if you hadnt made ETD unplayable (and dont argue this because 57 ETD's, and it was a lot lower at tick 1, dont lie) then the round wouldnt have been so skewed. But really your OPing of Zik alongside your ruining of Xan/ETD has led to what by all account has been a boring and dull and demoralising 7 weeks of peoples lives, weeks they cant get back.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 20:26   #63
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

This round must have been awesome for ziks though?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 21:09   #64
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Just as awsome for Cath and terran. But your right Xan players im sorry your round sucked maybe you should play better and you wont hate your life.

As for etd's if all your worried about are fireblades stopping you then fine dont play etd, Except when i look at universe page only 12m value in fireblades.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 21:15   #65
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Also 61% are zik/terr because of alliance choices to go Fr instead of fi/co. To my knowledge only 2 alliances went fi/co where as 6 alliances went fr/cr/bs.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 21:17   #66
Clouds
Registered User
 
Clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
Clouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to behold
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

I think the moral of the story is, don't let TIA do stats EVER AGAIN please.
Clouds is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 21:28   #67
tobbe
Registered User
 
tobbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North
Posts: 227
tobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to behold
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Just as awsome for Cath and terran. But your right Xan players im sorry your round sucked maybe you should play better and you wont hate your life.

As for etd's if all your worried about are fireblades stopping you then fine dont play etd, Except when i look at universe page only 12m value in fireblades.
Maybee you should concentrate on making better stats instead of trying to bash down players that are MUCH better in this game than you are?
And saying alliances are to blame for wrong racechoices is just beyond stupid, its a reason these choices was made. (App went pure xan because some dumb shit decided us to go full xan a couple of runds before this one even started.)

The reason there is no fireblades, is that there is no need for em, 90% of the DE attackers in the universe is in the same alliance. And for gal use, there is ships like marauder and wyvern thats better to use, instead of building an off class defship in an allready weak setup.
__________________
Memento mori !

VisioN Forever!
tobbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 21:49   #68
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Also 61% are zik/terr because of alliance choices to go Fr instead of fi/co. To my knowledge only 2 alliances went fi/co where as 6 alliances went fr/cr/bs.
Because you made Fr really good (Clipper, Chimera), Cr/Bs pretty good, Fi/Co pretty bad, and De really bad (Mara, Fireblade).

[edit] Oh. What tobbe said. He's a smart man. You should listen to him.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 21 Feb 2014 at 21:55.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Feb 2014, 22:00   #69
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

If App hadn't decided to go all lolxan there'd be like 10% etd+xan in total heh.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Feb 2014, 21:57   #70
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

There is nothing what so ever wrong about the stats, its something very very very wrong with this community.
When i first had a look at the stats, long before they were close to being finished, i shouted out in the tactical discussion area in our alliance, that it would be a round where we would be spending more time defending and issueing recall orders on attack than anything.
The race options/tactic were the same throughout the whole stats making.
It would either be zik/ter FR forts + xan or cat as exilers/rank whores/support planets on how i looked at it.
Throughout the whole stats making period, people kept saying "xan is too strong", "if xan is halfplayable everyone will play xan" etc etc. This mustve clearly gotten to Tia, as he made them very hard to play in the end.
If stats are good or bad depends on the alliance you are in, if you were in Ultores you would know that this stats is perfect for the dedicated alliance, as you could withstand a lot of incs over a long period of time with being dedicated.
How fun would it be for the likes of Spore who were having 200 incs at them for a week straight if the stats wernt defensive? Atleast with defensive stats, the alliances wich has crawled their way to the top got some chance to defend their lead without loosing everything.

Now, is this very good for smaller alliances, alliances that never fort, or new players?
No, but the community dont care about newer players anyway.

Im sure with the stats next round the more dedicated alliances know their chances are slim to none, and prolly will not be bothering to play.
And the whole part of the game will be how to best fence your gal again.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Feb 2014, 22:22   #71
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Well if you say so then it must be true.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Feb 2014, 22:48   #72
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
There is nothing what so ever wrong about the stats, its something very very very wrong with this community.
When i first had a look at the stats, long before they were close to being finished, i shouted out in the tactical discussion area in our alliance, that it would be a round where we would be spending more time defending and issueing recall orders on attack than anything.
The race options/tactic were the same throughout the whole stats making.
It would either be zik/ter FR forts + xan or cat as exilers/rank whores/support planets on how i looked at it.
Throughout the whole stats making period, people kept saying "xan is too strong", "if xan is halfplayable everyone will play xan" etc etc. This mustve clearly gotten to Tia, as he made them very hard to play in the end.
If stats are good or bad depends on the alliance you are in, if you were in Ultores you would know that this stats is perfect for the dedicated alliance, as you could withstand a lot of incs over a long period of time with being dedicated.
How fun would it be for the likes of Spore who were having 200 incs at them for a week straight if the stats wernt defensive? Atleast with defensive stats, the alliances wich has crawled their way to the top got some chance to defend their lead without loosing everything.

Now, is this very good for smaller alliances, alliances that never fort, or new players?
No, but the community dont care about newer players anyway.

Im sure with the stats next round the more dedicated alliances know their chances are slim to none, and prolly will not be bothering to play.
And the whole part of the game will be how to best fence your gal again.

Sorry but this is complete bollocks.

Tia's stats were poor when they went up, he then made wholesale changes to balance them and instead swung them completely to the opposite. If i remember correctly from the original set Zik was awful and Xan was way way too good. Etd was awful from the start. He changed the stats so that Zik was ridiculously good and made Xan awful and never sorted Etd. This is not good stat making.

Now lets take Isils Rd 56 set. He started with a set that looked 'ok' but needed work, he has made numerous SMALL changes and balanced combat over the course of the last 5 weeks, what we have ended up with is a set of stats where no one is saying 'This is WAY TOO OP' or 'OMG they are awful'. What we actually have is a set where people are finding different things that they like and different strengths and weaknesses. In Isils set i feel you can genuinely be any race and any class almost be in contention to have a good planet. Everything has strengths and everything has weaknesses.

The main differences between the two sets is that Isil started with an ok set whereas Tia started with a poor set and Isil has tweaked whereas Tia overhauled.

People will actually want to play with this set, peoples minds were made up at round start that Tias set was going to poor and have a large bearing on the round which it has. I think you will find a lot more people have a desire with Isils set because the set he has made isnt controversial or weighted in one area too much or set to his way of playing the game. As i said in his thread hopefully people wont even mention his stats in Rd 56 and that would be a great testament to them.

Politics and people should be the main gripes with the game round to round. Backstabbing and lolwaving and FCing and fencing and so on should be the issues that rile people up, not the stats. That is where Tia failed.

I fully expect every alliance to play next round, i expect them to play to a better level than this round. I expect more attacking, i expect good defence and i expect a large enjoyment of the 7 weeks play.


In regards to your Xan comments Bitcher cloak is a very OP ability to have. What Tia had at the time the comments were made was a very strong Xan setup and when you added cloak to that there was no way people wouldnt have gone Xan. He actually only needed to tweak a few effs and maybe the odd init and targetting (all of which was suggested to him) instead to ripped them to part and Opped every race against them. He went way to far because frankly he didnt know what he was doing and how to fix it.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Feb 2014, 23:21   #73
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Kaiba summed it up correctly, more or less. BB is just grasping at straws to defend the stats/Tia, when the basis of the stats were just wrong. Clipper is only part of the problem. Clipper+Gryph beating out every single fi/co fleet is an issue. No Co shooting at Co is an issue (making Fr more attractive). Fireblade (Destroyers in general) is an issue, Chimera killing Bs by itself is an issue, both having two ticks to be gathered.

Xan was strong up until the point where Tia altered his finalized stats and changed inits, including the Clippers, making Zik flat out beat Xan with no chance of outplaying. On top of that, Xan was immune to itself, so the appeal to go Xan when it couldn't hit itself nor the strongest race (Zik) was gone completely (unless you're Apprime!).

The stats are very defensive (excluding Cat Co), which was called out from the moment it was put up. I have no problem with Tia personally, and we all make mistakes (r54 anyone?), but there needs to be someone higher up (sorry Appoco, this is probably going to be you!) that manages the process and can say "sorry matey, but this set stinks, you're starting from scratch again".
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 03:55   #74
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Conspiracy, who is looking to win the round now, got more Xan planets than Ter and Zik combined.
How come they are doing so good atm with over 33% of the alliances playing an "useless" and "unplayable" race?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 04:27   #75
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Why do you use "useless" and "unplayable" - even in quotes - when neither I nor Kaiba used those words?

Neither of us said you couldn't win with Xan. There are more factors than race/shipstats involved, but if you choose Xan (or a lot of Xan as an alliance) you make it more difficult for yourself. CT has played to their setup's strengths well and made it work.
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 05:35   #76
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Why do you use "useless" and "unplayable" - even in quotes - when neither I nor Kaiba used those words?

Neither of us said you couldn't win with Xan. There are more factors than race/shipstats involved, but if you choose Xan (or a lot of Xan as an alliance) you make it more difficult for yourself. CT has played to their setup's strengths well and made it work.
I use those words cus thats how i understand the majority of posters here look at the race xan this round.
Saying either this or that is way opped is plain wrong.
The alliance currently looking to win has very few ter/zik planets, how come?
I might be actualy landing towards supporting Tia's claim that most People dont know what they are talking about...
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 08:36   #77
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I might be actualy landing towards supporting Tia's claim that most People dont know what they are talking about...
This is ofcourse true, you two are prime examples
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 09:26   #78
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I have no problem with Tia personally, and we all make mistakes (r54 anyone?), but there needs to be someone higher up (sorry Appoco, this is probably going to be you!) that manages the process and can say "sorry matey, but this set stinks, you're starting from scratch again".
Thought: next time the stats are bad, Appoco shouldn't just use them anyway. If no one else offers, just dig up some old ones to put up, without any changes. Old is better than bad.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 09:31   #79
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

100% agree
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 10:44   #80
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I use those words cus thats how i understand the majority of posters here look at the race xan this round.
Saying either this or that is way opped is plain wrong.
The alliance currently looking to win has very few ter/zik planets, how come?
I might be actualy landing towards supporting Tia's claim that most People dont know what they are talking about...
Using a very basic system (called looking at the webby) there have been 5 contenders this round. Spore, Vikings, CT, Faceless and Ultores. Looking breifly at the memberbases of each alliance i would say only one has could be classed a top teir alliance, Ultores. Using that system i would say that if Ultores has received a higher than 2.5% roid loss then they have had a bad day. For the other 4 i would say more than 5% loss is a bad day at the office.

Spore - 11 days of negative returns - 6 of them over 5% (2 of them under 1%)

Vikings - 7 days of negative returns - 5 of them over 5% (1 under 1%)

Faceless - 6 days of negative returns -0 of them over 5% (2 under 1%)

CT - 6 days of negative returns - 2 of them over 5% (1 under 1%)

and...

Ultores - 10 days of negative returns - 8 of them over 2.5% (1 under 1%) (1 over 5% for comparision)


Something that is abundantly clear from this is that Consiracy and Faceless have not faced any incs of note all round, especially Faceless. What is an interesting side note is that even with these lack of concentrated incs Conspiracy still has the highest roidloss of 1 day at 12.6%. Vikings has the 2nd and 3rd highest at 12.5% and 11.6% but supposedly wasnt defending any incommings from 5 alliances at the time.

I think this shows that if CT had had any kind of organised gangbang on them like Spore/Ultores and Vikings have had then they would have crumbled very very quickly. You cannot comment on the effectiveness of their setup defensively when it has not been tested of note at any time for consecutive days.

All we can draw is that both CT and Faceless have had a good round politically, avoiding incommings. We are now at the point of round where apathy takes over and no one is going to get gangbanged and change this.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 11:40   #81
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Using a very basic system (called looking at the webby) there have been 5 contenders this round. Spore, Vikings, CT, Faceless and Ultores. Looking breifly at the memberbases of each alliance i would say only one has could be classed a top teir alliance, Ultores. Using that system i would say that if Ultores has received a higher than 2.5% roid loss then they have had a bad day. For the other 4 i would say more than 5% loss is a bad day at the office.

Spore - 11 days of negative returns - 6 of them over 5% (2 of them under 1%)

Vikings - 7 days of negative returns - 5 of them over 5% (1 under 1%)

Faceless - 6 days of negative returns -0 of them over 5% (2 under 1%)

CT - 6 days of negative returns - 2 of them over 5% (1 under 1%)

and...

Ultores - 10 days of negative returns - 8 of them over 2.5% (1 under 1%) (1 over 5% for comparision)


Something that is abundantly clear from this is that Consiracy and Faceless have not faced any incs of note all round, especially Faceless. What is an interesting side note is that even with these lack of concentrated incs Conspiracy still has the highest roidloss of 1 day at 12.6%. Vikings has the 2nd and 3rd highest at 12.5% and 11.6% but supposedly wasnt defending any incommings from 5 alliances at the time.

I think this shows that if CT had had any kind of organised gangbang on them like Spore/Ultores and Vikings have had then they would have crumbled very very quickly. You cannot comment on the effectiveness of their setup defensively when it has not been tested of note at any time for consecutive days.

All we can draw is that both CT and Faceless have had a good round politically, avoiding incommings. We are now at the point of round where apathy takes over and no one is going to get gangbanged and change this.
How can you know what kind of incommings CT has been facing?
I thought u wernt even playing this round
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 11:43   #82
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I use those words cus thats how i understand the majority of posters here look at the race xan this round.
Saying either this or that is way opped is plain wrong.
The alliance currently looking to win has very few ter/zik planets, how come?
I might be actualy landing towards supporting Tia's claim that most People dont know what they are talking about...
Please get through your head that all comments made about the OPness of Xan were made at a time when Xan was OP in the stats. Tia subsequently made Xan rubbish to play.


I will still stand by my belief that at any time that Xan is a remotely viable race (which it wasnt in this round) then cloak gives it a distinct advantage over its competitors.

CT and Faceless are closing in on a round win purely through naps/avoidances/not getting gangbanged. Their race setup has nothing to do with this. If somehow we could get the universe to gangbang them both in the last week equally then Faceless with its heavy Zik/Ter setup would cope far better than CT. This most likely wont happen though because the stats have demoralised everyone else to a point where they dont give a shit anymore.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Feb 2014, 11:51   #83
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
How can you know what kind of incommings CT has been facing?
I thought u wernt even playing this round
No i am not playing this round and i have quite clearly stated in the above post how i came to my conclusion. To have 1 day where an alliance lost the most roids of any alliance this round would show that defensively they are not some 1337 force. We know this of CT from past rounds anyway, CT HC's wont try and disprove this, their strength is in attack, always has been always will be.

Everyone can get quite a clear idea of where attacks have been going from looking at negative returns an alliance receives. I didnt claim to know exact numbers of incommings alliances have received on said days that they got negative returns but something which is quite clear is that if an alliance that is known for its defensive prowess like Ultores can get 11 days of negative returns and CT only have 6 then Ultores have had more CONCENTRATED incs than CT.

If CT had more than 100 incs (which i will use as a reasonable marker for excessive incommings) on one night they would never end up with positive roids. Nothing has happened in CT this round to sudenly turn them into some crack defensive unit, please stop trolling otherwise.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Feb 2014, 09:56   #84
Bobzy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Bobzy is a jewel in the roughBobzy is a jewel in the roughBobzy is a jewel in the rough
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Conspiracy, who is looking to win the round now, got more Xan planets than Ter and Zik combined.
How come they are doing so good atm with over 33% of the alliances playing an "useless" and "unplayable" race?
There are too many factors to consider for this to be as basic as you're making it.

Initially, CT's strategy was to go Fi/Co - partly because Cath CO is insanely good. Naturally, this means you have to have Xan planets, and Zik was chosen as a third race (for whatever reason) with the aim of the game to steal CO pods and join in on the fun. Now hindsight is a great thing, but that strategy for Ziks (on the whole) is a poor one - especially given how strong their Fr fleets are.

Background set, you've got a lot of Xan/Cath planets playing in CT. Of the top 5 planets, 4 are Cath. Within the whole of the top 100 we have 4 Xan planets. The legitimate successes of using Xan this round come purely from the low-ETA Fi fleet which is incredibly useful for retalling attacks and that's where the Xans have managed to roid successfully - alongside teamups on Cath/Ter planets, which are just about good enough targets still.

On the defensive side, Kaiba is correct (although to say no incomings of note is wide of the mark). If enough Fr planets were shunted onto Xan planets, you'd have no chance of covering the attacks successfully - and that's for EITHER of Zik's attacks races as well!

The problem is that Xan is incredibly easy to stop yet people (like Kaiba) will bang on about cloaking being OP - and this would 100% be the case if you had low init ships with decent armour. Xan has never been decently armoured, though, and the init advantage has, for the most part, been stripped this round (beets, clippers, ghosts, investors). It takes 1 defence fleet to stop a Xan Fi fleet. 1. This is all well and good if it, similarly, takes 1 fleet to stop other attack classes but that isn't the case. Landing has, thus, been incredibly tough. The lightweight, low ETA attacking race has been turned into a lightweight, low ETA defensive race which has its advantages within an alliance strategy but strips the enjoyment from the round - especially for any planets that don't have a decent alliance to benefit them. A solo player would be landing sack all.

Over 50% of the top 15 planets are Zik. I wonder which race the stats creator favours?
Bobzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 Feb 2014, 11:21   #85
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: r55 Stats debate thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
There are too many factors to consider for this to be as basic as you're making it.

Initially, CT's strategy was to go Fi/Co - partly because Cath CO is insanely good. Naturally, this means you have to have Xan planets, and Zik was chosen as a third race (for whatever reason) with the aim of the game to steal CO pods and join in on the fun. Now hindsight is a great thing, but that strategy for Ziks (on the whole) is a poor one - especially given how strong their Fr fleets are.

Background set, you've got a lot of Xan/Cath planets playing in CT. Of the top 5 planets, 4 are Cath. Within the whole of the top 100 we have 4 Xan planets. The legitimate successes of using Xan this round come purely from the low-ETA Fi fleet which is incredibly useful for retalling attacks and that's where the Xans have managed to roid successfully - alongside teamups on Cath/Ter planets, which are just about good enough targets still.

On the defensive side, Kaiba is correct (although to say no incomings of note is wide of the mark). If enough Fr planets were shunted onto Xan planets, you'd have no chance of covering the attacks successfully - and that's for EITHER of Zik's attacks races as well!

The problem is that Xan is incredibly easy to stop yet people (like Kaiba) will bang on about cloaking being OP - and this would 100% be the case if you had low init ships with decent armour. Xan has never been decently armoured, though, and the init advantage has, for the most part, been stripped this round (beets, clippers, ghosts, investors). It takes 1 defence fleet to stop a Xan Fi fleet. 1. This is all well and good if it, similarly, takes 1 fleet to stop other attack classes but that isn't the case. Landing has, thus, been incredibly tough. The lightweight, low ETA attacking race has been turned into a lightweight, low ETA defensive race which has its advantages within an alliance strategy but strips the enjoyment from the round - especially for any planets that don't have a decent alliance to benefit them. A solo player would be landing sack all.

Over 50% of the top 15 planets are Zik. I wonder which race the stats creator favours?
Again for like the 10th time in the last few days cloak is op IF Xan is viable. When comments were made before these stats were final about Xan being OP that was because it was. Then Tia nerfed it to buggery.

Any setup where you can attack or defend with next to no ships and still force a recall or get a land is OP. I can have 1 mill of the best Xan ship and i can send it at your alliance 3 times over and as long as my dists are ahead of the planets amps then you have to treat each incomming as real. This means a few xans can very easily drag in ALOT of defence on what could potentially be a few thousand pods. On the flipside a Xan can attack with its full fleet and still (as long as it isnt landing way before its defence lands) can send 1 ship on defence to a planet and the attackers have to consider it real. Again a few Xans can force a lot of recalls with 1 ship fleets.

No other race can do this (with the exception of ETD and even they cant do it on the scale of Xan), it is a massive advantage on any battlefield and especially if you are warring against an alliance that doesnt crash value for roids.

I agree with your assesment of CT though Bobzy, i would also say that yesterdays performance, where you lost 9% to a apathetic universe shows that your setup isnt the greatest and politics have actually been your strong point this round, not race strat.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018