So what should I say?

[G.K Zhukov]

A mate of mine, who I have know for 17 years, has been together with this girl for 2 years now.
She is 19, he's soon 24. She is dumber than a piece of bread. She's a pain to be around, and so is most of her friends (who are atleast two things out of these: dumb, strange, totally silent, pregnant, got atleast one kid, cares only about watching soaps on tv).

Everyone of us guys thinks he should dump her faster than hell, couse he can certainly find some new girl whos better. But he doesnt see it that way :\

And now she is pregnant.
When he told me, I didnt say much. Mostly becouse I have said what I meant about her (and her desire to get a kid ASAP).

But really, I cant keep saying like "eh, okey" for the rest of my life..

Anyone got any clues to what would be a smart solution.

Oh yeah, they are both out of work. Im sure he will find something soon, but she doesnt have any education at all..

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Anyone got any clues to what would be a smart solution.

An abortion?

However, if she's desperate for a kid I'd imagine that's out of the question. Presumably he knew this though, so he's got shoulder the burden. Get him the leaflet from the Simpsons : "So, you've ruined your life".

[KraKto$is8]

No doubt the girl wants to marry the dude now? Or is that not the "thing" among you young people nowadays?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by KraKto$is8

No doubt the girl wants to marry the dude now? Or is that not the "thing" among you young people nowadays?

Do you remember WW2?

[G.K Zhukov]

You guessed right Dante.

Both of them doesnt want it. And yes, I have tried to convince my mate that it's the wise thing.
She ofc wants the kid alot, as thats the only future she got, beeing a mother.

About marrige, he doesnt want it. That doesnt help though. Couse they are living together, and that acts for the same. He also have to pay her for the kid, if he leaves.

URL to the Simpson thing Dante? :\

[Dante Hicks]

My attitude would depend on how ghastly the girl was, and how strong she feels about abortion (most girls seem to have idiotic attitudes about this sort of thing).

You should take him aside and say to him quite seriously that he is about to totally **** up his life, and this is a wake up call. He can threaten to move out and this might make her reconsider.*

* = Ethically you're on very dodgy grounds with this though, heh.

[G.K Zhukov]

how ghastly? ( I guess that means "how bad")

Let say calling her as dumb as bread would be unfair to the bread, thats why I wrote dumber than bread...
She's a bloddy moron, without any future.
Thats why she want to have a child I guess. Then she is a mother, she gets money from the state to stay home (sadly, stupid move by the christiandemocrats) and she ties my mate to her. And if he breaks with her, he gotta pay her each month, and she is entitled to more money from the social office.

Ethically, sorry, cant care about that, can I?

[CoD]

punch her in the stomach or acidently trip her down sum stairs

[sayonara]

Are you the ghost of General Grigori Konstantinovich Zhukov, or just a bit fruity?

[CrashTester]

how about you say nothing and stop trying to interfere? Maybe he wants what he has got with a girl who wants the same, your idea of what you want out of life may not be the same as his. You say that she is dumb but not your friend, in which case he knows what he is doing. Leave them be.

[Madina]

tell him to get her to have an abortion - if they are both unemployed how do they plan to support a baby? benefits? (if its anything like the benefits in the uk you wont get much) and last of all its just unfair on the child if you cant bring it up properly

my view anyway

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

This is pretty offensive on many levels and a fairly serious allegation.

Yes, and the worst thing, its true.
Oh, and all his other mates agrees with me.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Thats why she want to have a child I guess. Then she is a mother, she gets money from the state to stay home

Hmmm, I've met a fair number of stupid people in my time, but I've never encountered who literally thinks this. Most of the stupid young women who have children tend to do so either because
(a) they think motherhood is really great, and they've been socialised to the point that motherhood as an exclusive career is the best they can hope for
(b) it's a stupid mistake but they oppose abortion for x or y idiotic reasons
(c) it's an "accident" and they stupidly think it'll make them and the halfwit they're shagging into a "family".

I've not encountered (directly, not saying they don't exist) anyone who thinks that way. Maybe state benefits do encourage teenage pregnancies (I'm not sure if the stats support this assertion though) but I doubt many people get pregnant purely for some kind of half-arsed pay deal.

[Evergreen]

Dear Dante,

You may not know me too well but I have a brother 18 months younger than me, While I affiliated with a crowd who are academically bright and engaged in many civilized activities, my brother ended up associating with petty lawbreakers, who are older and doing older petty lawbreaking things.

I can tell you this for one thing, of his friends that are all dole grubbing bastards and bitches the following has been done by 3 women in his clique, they all got pregnant for the sole reason that being of child get's you bumped up the council house waiting list ahead of everyone else who isn't of child. A lot of them do this when seeking to get away from family and getting a place of their own, also they do honestly believe raising a child is a lot cheaper than not at all cause hey that's what oxfam and the Salvation army are there for, clothing and feeding your child. I was dumbfounded by this, the first one who done this I Thought was the exception, by the time the third done it I know it was the norm for people who do not lead or live a very good life and wish to propogate their substandard gene's.

I hope this fills you in a lot.

As for Zhukov, your friends own ****ing fault, it takes two to tango, if he has went and got her pregnant it's his ****ing fault and if his life is ruined even ****ing better. IF you are going to be that ****ing careless at that ****ing level you deserve every ****ing problem you ****ing get. I'm quite militant about protection in my relationship and I make sure I take almost zero risk (absolute zero risk would not be having sex at all but I'm good at it so that would be a loss to the world if I stopped).

[G.K Zhukov]

That girl is a A) and a B).

In norway you get 90£ a month for the child (child support, witch you get even if your a milionere).
Then you can get 320£ a month for staying home with your child. (even if you still together with the father)
You can get more money to pay the rent, specially if your single. (Ive heard up to 500£ a month)
If your living together with the father, he got to pay "support payments", according to his wage.
If he is unemployed or a student, the state pays for him.
And since you have a child, the social security office have to give you first priority on everything.

So sadly, there is some girls who consider having a kid a "career choice" in a way. 99% of these girls come from poor families (bad economy or poor in therms of culture and so on).

[Nodrog]

To be fair Paul, you did live in Glasgow.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

To be fair Paul, you did live in Glasgow.

So did you for 2 years.

And im sincerely doubting that your residence in London is anywhere out Mayfair way .....

[Nodrog]

It's close enough.

And I meant that the denizens of Glasgow are hardly comparable to the poor of most other cities, given that Glasgow is the most poverty stricken city in Britain and has less class than the top 40 music charts.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

It's close enough.

And I meant that the denizens of Glasgow are hardly comparable to the poor of most other cities, given that Glasgow is the most poverty stricken city in Britain and has less class than the top 40 music charts.

Glasgow is no more or less poverty stricken than most cities. Although if you can provide a website showing percentage of population below the poverty line (and a clearly defined property line) ill retract that statement. Ive seen far worse in Areas of Manchester, Leeds and Liverpool than ive seen in Glasgow.

[Scoot951]

If he's been with her for 2 years, then he deserves what he's got.

[Nodrog]

http://society.guardian.co.uk/social...652296,00.html

Glasgow has the 3 poorest consituencies in Britain, and 4 of the 10 poorest.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

I hope this fills you in a lot.

As I say, I'm sure it does happen, but I've never personally encountered it.

I actually work for what would be "the council housing" and we manage what you'd describe as the list. A lot of the people we've housed are single parents (generally mothers obviously). Even if people are encouraged into stupid behaviour by the welfare state (and as I say this is probably exaggerated*) they generally think they're doing it for other reasons. Obviously it might be different elsewhere.

* = I say this because the welfare state is marginally more generous in other parts of Europe, but teenage pregnancies are often lower elsewhere. Also, as far as I'm aware the United States still has some (probably lower than the UK proportionally though) teenage pregnancy problems, yet quite a minimal welfare state (again, compared to Germany or Sweden or wherever).

[midge5]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

http://society.guardian.co.uk/social...652296,00.html

Glasgow has the 3 poorest consituencies in Britain, and 4 of the 10 poorest, gg.

Woah not one area of the Valleys there, surprised there are at least 10 areas worse off than Rhondda Fach. Around half the girls in my year from junior school now have kids and it is the same for a lot of my friends, quite a few of whom have actually gone out and slept with anyone in order to get pregnant.

[G.K Zhukov]

This thread was intended to give me some helpful tips.

Not a freaking discussion on Glasgow
And I who thought parts of Northern-Ireland was the worst.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As I say, I'm sure it does happen, but I've never personally encountered it.

I actually work for what would be "the council housing" and we manage what you'd describe as the list. A lot of the people we've housed are single parents (generally mothers obviously). Even if people are encouraged into stupid behaviour by the welfare state (and as I say this is probably exaggerated*) they generally think they're doing it for other reasons. Obviously it might be different elsewhere.

* = I say this because the welfare state is marginally more generous in other parts of Europe, but teenage pregnancies are often lower elsewhere. Also, as far as I'm aware the United States still has some (probably lower than the UK proportionally though) teenage pregnancy problems, yet quite a minimal welfare state (again, compared to Germany or Sweden or wherever).

This is a really simple argument but have you thought that they just might try to hide their scrounging nature from you, due to the fact you are involved in assigning council housing?

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

This is a really simple argument but have you thought that they just might try to hide their scrounging nature from you, due to the fact you are involved in assigning council housing?

My Feelings totally.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

This is a really simple argument but have you thought that they just might try to hide their scrounging nature from you, due to the fact you are involved in assigning council housing?

Well I personally assign nothing, so they wouldn't gain anything from me (I only deal with people once they've been given a secure home that can't be taken away unless they don't pay their rent). So I don't see what advantage they'd gain.

Since people do say fairly outrageous things (e.g. "Well I'm not paying my rent, you have to house me anyway, so even if I get evicted I'll just get another house so **** you") it's just curious that I've never heard anyone (in or out of work) show something which is allegedly an endemic attitude for everyone else.

[Rids]

Throw the bitch down the stairs.

[CrashTester]

Dantes failure to realise what really goes on is part of the reason people get away with it.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by CrashTester

Dantes failure to realise what really goes on is part of the reason people get away with it.

You misunderstood what I said.

[Zar]

find a back alley, and feed the girl some "drugs" that will induce an abortion

this might kill her or cause her severe pain - but uhm... your mate is more important right?

[Deepflow]

sunday? what is zero risk?

2 condoms, birth control pill, withdrawal technique and then a morning after pill in the morning for good measure?

doesnt sound like much fun to me

[JetLinus]

To quote a cool old teacher-dude who's done a "not so usual" assembly once while I was in UK:

I would have got a shorter sentence if I'd killed my first wife in our wedding night!

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Deepflow

sunday? what is zero risk?

2 condoms, birth control pill, withdrawal technique and then a morning after pill in the morning for good measure?

doesnt sound like much fun to me

a femidom, that cap thing women shove up themselves, that coil thing etc...

you're forgetting the "safe sex" option from naked gun. An entire body condom....i bet sunday wears one of those

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Well I personally assign nothing, so they wouldn't gain anything from me (I only deal with people once they've been given a secure home that can't be taken away unless they don't pay their rent). So I don't see what advantage they'd gain.

Since people do say fairly outrageous things (e.g. "Well I'm not paying my rent, you have to house me anyway, so even if I get evicted I'll just get another house so **** you") it's just curious that I've never heard anyone (in or out of work) show something which is allegedly an endemic attitude for everyone else.

They'd percieve you as part of the general establishment though and would imagine you actually can take away their homes I'd say.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

They'd percieve you as part of the general establishment though and would imagine you actually can take away their homes I'd say.

Possibly, but as I say, they don't normally hold back from saying other things (which should by rights lead them losing their home). *shrug*. Maybe it is a big conspiracy.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Possibly, but as I say, they don't normally hold back from saying other things (which should by rights lead them losing their home). *shrug*. Maybe it is a big conspiracy.

I rather call it unconscious descisions.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Possibly, but as I say, they don't normally hold back from saying other things (which should by rights lead them losing their home). *shrug*. Maybe it is a big conspiracy.

Maybe they don't realise those things would lose them their homes?

[1-X]

Zhukov shouldn't encourage his friend to encourage his girlfriend to have an abortion, and the rest of you shouldn't encourage him to do so either. It's a decision for the prospective parents to sort out for themselves, and it's not like it's an option they won't have heard of.

If she did abort, and you felt your advice played a big part in that, do you not think you might feel a bit guilty in years to come that there was an innocent child who was never born, in part because of you?

(I advised someone to abort once, and I'm now glad she didn't take my advice)

[IncubusGod]

Well he's boned. He's made his bed and now he has to lie in it. Sure she might be a idiotic bint but he clearly liked her enough to live with her then get her pregnant.

Clearly you mightn't like the situation but what can you do? Just grit your teeth and say non-commital things.

And as for that girls getting pregnant as a way of income/houseing benifits I've seen that in action.
Never underestimate the depths some girls go to get what they want,I've seen
1)A 15 year old get pregnant cause her best friend did,she's my friends sister. She then proclaimed that she always wanted a baby and only realised after she shagged some random guy that she could screw him for child support as well as social welfare.

2)My 17 yearr old neighbour got pregnant by accident and I overheard a conversation between her and her friends,2 of which were pregnant also. One of those girls proclaimed "Yeah well I wanted to piss my mother off and this way I can get a house as well" as the main reason she went out and delibratley got pregnant.

3) One of my best friends in university,a girl,told us a story of how her best friend got pregnant just so she could keep her boyfriend. She managed it and he was forced into staying with her.

How fked up is all that.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by 1-X

If she did abort, and you felt your advice played a big part in that, do you not think you might feel a bit guilty in years to come that there was an innocent child who was never born, in part because of you?

I would be very happy. VERY. I would sleep better at night. My mates could have a better life.
Why would I be happy?

1) She isnt going to be a good mother. She is a kid herself bascily.
2) They can always have kids later
3) He would have a better chance of dumping her.
4) He could have a baby with a girl who isnt an idiot.
5) An egg and a spermcell isnt a baby.

[Stew]

It's a living creature, that is near enough a human.

Abortion is wrong...mmmkay?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Stew

It's a living creature, that is near enough a human.

Abortion is wrong...mmmkay?

I doubt it could be called a human by any stretch of the imagination for at least 7 months.

[Stew]

In the same way a boy can be called a man, a baby is a human.

[ChubbyChecker]

Chopping one out is also wrong. Do you have any idea how many defenceless little creatures die when you do that??????

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Stew

In the same way a boy can be called a man, a baby is a human.

It's not a baby though. It's just a ball of cells that with sufficient support a symbiotic system without which it cannot survive may grow into something that is more self sufficient. Being able to breath would be a good start.

[Stew]

Ok I got my example wrong

Lemme try again:
In the same way a boy can be called a man, a foetus is a baby.

My bad, sorry

Edit: also - some "ppl", esp old "ppl" cant breathe by themselves - are they not ppl?

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's not a baby though. It's just a ball of cells that with sufficient support a symbiotic system without which it cannot survive may grow into something that is more self sufficient. Being able to breath would be a good start.

Correct.

This thread isnt about Glasgow or abortion.
Ive decided that I think abortion is a valid option, and those who disagrees can go to USA and get shot at. heh.

[LHC]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...light=abortion

We had the whole abortion thing already

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Stew

Lemme try again:
In the same way a boy can be called a man, a foetus is a baby.

Not really. Use the same counter argument as you were replying to.

Originally Posted by Stew

Edit: also - some "ppl", esp old "ppl" cant breathe by themselves - are they not ppl?

What the hell is it with the 'ppl'? And of course there are exceptions to the rather simplistic definitions, but read the linked thread for more stuff