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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:44   #1
AliasX
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Help with Bad & Poor Management!

First off this was taken from an other forum. Second, The forum doesnt get as much traffic as we do here so the replies wouldnt be that great. Third, Most you guys are smart, and I expect a good answer

Quote:
Originally posted by freaknasty

Someone I know is currently going through this...I need your help and advice on what I should tell them.
Scenario:
You are working for a professional company after you have completed your BA. Your direct manager is the VP, is very professional (has MBA), encourages you to do well, looks highly upon you, and rates you very high on his evaluations. He even has the company pay for more education for you where you receives 'A' grades and you even get 'employee' of the quarter.
Then times change. The manager leaves and management changes hands. By default, your collegeaue with whom you do not get along well for personal reasons becomes your immediate supervisor because he has been there longer. He does not have the knowledge to perform his duties correctly and you know that you know more than he does even though you have not been there as long. Since you are now his subordinate with underlying animosity, he 'delegates' all his work and others' work to you, doubling/tripling your work load. However, you are able to perform at highest productivity and still are able to complete the work in a timely and accurate fashion.
He does not have any any courses or training classes taken after his high school degree. He has no management skills and condescendingly speaks to you. Thus, your evaluation comes up and you are rated below satisfactory even though your productivity has skyrocketed, job knowlege has increased dramatically, and more duties are placed upon you. Thus, it is the recommendation of your new manager that you are not given a pay and title raise when you already know that your skills and job knowledge already far exceed your manager's.
What do you do?-- please keep these ideas in mind.
1) You can't afford to switch jobs because you need money while you are attending post-bachelor's education.
2) You NOW can't get a good recommendation because your immediate manager is unfair and unprofessional.
3) You, as well as, your other collegeas (and other managers, but not your own manager) know your work and managment ethics are much more professional.
4) You know in your heart that you are an excellent worker and have received a very very unfair review due to the manager's personal reasons.

This is an unfair situation.

What do you do?
Serious Answers only, but im sure it's not gonna be like that
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:46   #2
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Go above his head, plead your case to his direct supervisor.
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:49   #3
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First thing to do would be to go higher up the food chain to make a complaint.

Also, maybe get in touch with a union os some sort? There may even be a law against this sort of thing.
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:53   #4
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consider that going 'above this guys head' will also make the passed supervisor not feel any better of your friend...
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:54   #5
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Yeah, go to the manager's boss. It's the only thing you can do in this kind of situation.

Either that or throw spitballs at him when you think he isn't looking.
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:55   #6
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You quit.

Someone i know is in a similar position at the moment. After months of bad management, a meeting was held for the employees to vent their frustrations at the sheer idiocy which was going on (downsizing whilst taking on new clients , promoting 18yr olds straight out of school within 3 months whilst more experienced people who have done the job for 3 years are overlooked, verbal abuse and bullying rife amongst management).

Everyone who vented an opinion was shot down or interrupted by the manager everyone is complaining about. The meeting achieved its objective though, as 3 key personnel on the floor all handed in their resignations, leaving the management with no skilled individuals in that position, and nobody to train new people to do the job.

I assume thats what the management wanted, right?

Go over his head . Tell him that the review was unfair , overly critical, and that youll be filing a complaint about his conduct regarding the standard of his work and his supervisory skills. Meantime , start looking around for a new job , as the odds are this asshole will meantime make your life ****. Get out NOW as then you can refer to your previous manager for a reference. The longer you are under this guy, the ****tier the reference becomes , the poorer your chances of re-employment on a similar salary.
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:56   #7
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doesnt make any difference.


he doesnt like you anyway so going above him will not change much.


Id goto his direct supervisor and explain precisely why i have a problem with him. Pointing out that i was employee of the month several times and how my workload has tripled since he moved into position. etc etc
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:57   #8
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**** his life up. Start with the signing up for dodgy mailing lists with his email and end up with the old gay pr0n on hard drive technique. This guy is treating you like ****. He deserves no pity. Oh and shag his wife

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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 22:58   #9
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ppl have given you some pretty good advice there, especially kura, but remember to look innto the union thing, and sound out any other staff who he manages, see what they think of him, chances are they will be as pissed off as your mate
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 23:28   #10
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Yeah, whatever you do, get the support of the other employees...

One man having a grudge your super's supervisor can safely ignore. One man fronting the rest of the workgroup is a completly different ballpark... And please; do remember that if your supervisor had any better people to hire for the job, they most likely would have done so in the first place. Most likely, the only two solutions either involve you two making up, or you working somewhere else.

Not to mention, by my meager experience, managment absolutly hate to move/fire somebody because of pressure from regular employees (those who actually do something) and will in most cases just ignore any complaints, and then move/fire the manager in question 4 months later pretending it had nothing to do with people complaying.

And... Unless you have a strong tradition for unions whereever you live, they are best brought in if you need put pressure behind your words (ie after you've spoken out loud to some part of managment).
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 00:28   #11
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The following assumes you cant move jobs.


for gods sake just make sure you scope out what everyone is (likely) to think/do. Going above the managers head to his supervisor isnt going to look exactly fcking great especially if your supervisor and him get on. Dont just go and shout your mouth off, plan carefully what you're going to do and what situations could arise.

If you do go above his head dont come across as a whiny individual try to act as if you're above it all ie tell his direct supervisor that you havent got anything against your manager its just a personality conflict, so hey can you work for another manager? now if he will almost certainly bring you and your manager in for a heart to heart (like they ever fcking work) so now what you have to do is play yourself up as mr mature/hardworking trying to be understanding individual without seeming arrogant, dont what ever you do go into the blame game, if you do have this kind of meeting say to your manager things like 'well i tried really hard here and dont think i was appreciated' 'im trying to see it from your point of view' 'maybe we just didnt communicate well enough' (bacically think of your manager and yourself being husband and wife and seeing a marriage guidance counciller)

you want his supervisor to think that you are actually more mature intelligent nicer and harder working then him.

His supervisor will also almost certainly then give you two a trial period to work together, in this trial period you have to work your fcking socks off, not aggreviate your manager (this includes giving bad vibes or attitude no matter what he says), be polite and happy and funny with everyone else, this gives you aces of leverage when it comes to negotiating later on.

Just remember making allies in the work place is like making friends at school, nobody likes someone who whines all the time and comes to them with their problems. Play yourself covertly as the underdog, ie be cheery with your wrkmates and other managers - even offering to help them out - while subvertly slipping into conversations how crap your manager is.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 00:44   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
I dont see how this will change his situation, other than having more work and having to pretend liking everything his manager tells him to do.

because going to your managers supervisor and complaining that he's an arsehole will get you nowhere fast (in my expereince) getting the backing of your work colleagues (to the point where they are prepared tp speak up) will. As much as they may sympathise with his experience would they really want to risk getting reputations as trouble makers if it all doesnt work out?

Supervisors hate dealing with personality conflicts as its difficult to appoint blame when people just dont get on. What you have to do is make your manager look like the one with the problem, that means getting other people to hate him, that means being nice to them first, that means a bit of extra work.

Supervisors/managers like to see a nice stable untroubled work force, by being pro-active with the complaints you can easily become identified as the one with the problem.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 02:50   #13
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Get your friend to write a letter bulletpointing all the grievances he has (with his boss). This should basically state where he sees things going wrong, how things were before, how he is being treated unfairly etc etc etc.

Get your friend to arrange a meeting with his boss' immediate boss.

In the meeting get your friend to say "Look ive got a problem with my boss. I listed where i think trouble lies and ive written it down so i know i dont forget anything. I'm coming to you because i hope you can help solve this problem."

Your friend should highlight that he has tried to solve/handle the problem on his own but he feels that he is getting so stressed with the situation that he needed to bring it to the attention of "someone in charge".*

Your friend has tried to speak in a low key manner to his direct boss about this situation with no effect and feels uncomfortable being more direct (without an intermediatory) as he feels that bad feeling might occur.**

Your friend should also kinda angle it so that he is going to his superiors boss as it is in the companies best interest. EVERYTHING YOUR FRIEND IS DOING HAS TO BE SAID IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMPANY (otherwise nothing will get done).

Your friend needs to remain totally proffesional at all times.



Hope i have been of help (tell me/us how it goes etc).











* This way it's not a petty problem and solutions have already been sought (managers hate people who bring every little problem to them without trying to figure it out themself ... this way it isn't just a little problem). Also Managers dont like to hear the word "stress" as "stress" can lead to LONG **** OFF TIME sick leave ;)

** The solutions your friend has come up with have be tried and failed (basically see above explanation).
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 03:04   #14
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Option 1. Complain to his boss

Option 2. Quit and find a new job (maybe not in that order)

Option 3. Get a shotgun




Anything else will lead to you getting heart attacks before you're 40.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 16:11   #15
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Thats the most one sided, pathetic, whiny moan I have read all day. If the boss is treating you that bad then stand up for yourself and tell him TO HIS FACE, that going over his head is a bad, bad idea. Jesus Christ you dont always get along with everyone, least of all the person making you do work.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 16:17   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hostile
Thats the most one sided, pathetic, whiny moan I have read all day. If the boss is treating you that bad then stand up for yourself and tell him TO HIS FACE, that going over his head is a bad, bad idea. Jesus Christ you dont always get along with everyone, least of all the person making you do work.
The master of the office dynamic speaks!
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 18:05   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
The master of the office dynamic speaks!
I bet he drinks Carling

Or works in Marketing. Pushy twats with no concept of how an office floor works tend to work in Marketing in my experience.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 18:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
I bet he drinks Carling

Or works in Marketing. Pushy twats with no concept of how an office floor works tend to work in Marketing in my experience.
I think its a gimmick of a gimmicks gimmick.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 19:46   #19
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Most decent companies have a 'right to reply' to official appraisals and the like. Some you even have to sign off that you agree with the results.

Read the official company procedure on Greivances. They will (often) have explicit policies for this kind of thing. I'm all for rabble rousing, but I'd do that before arranging a General Strike or having the Manager overthrown in some kind of coup d'etat.

Also, while the Peter Principle may be true, most people notice rank incompetence, and it's pretty easy to make unskilled/"unclever" people look foolish with minimal effort. Humour is often a good way of dealing with situations. His own brilliance can be demonstrated by volunteering for projects, or making suggestions (direct to some kind of suggestions box, etc) regularly.

p.s. What the hell does having a BA or MBA have to do with professionalism or skill?
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 21:29   #20
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I didn't read much past the first paragraph of the first post but you might want to consider an Employment Tribunal on the grounds of Constructive Dismissal. i.e. Your position with the firm has been made untenable due to the actions of your employer. Dunno if it's appropriate in your case but there's loads of employment legislation stuff online.

Try www.joblaw.org.

Btw: Thats UK Law but i'm sure there will be stuff for elsewhere too.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 12:04   #21
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Unread 12 Sep 2003, 06:57   #22
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Key his car fs!
yeah thats real mature...

althou this is gd, so I cant expect much
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