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Unread 26 Sep 2012, 08:30   #51
Plaguuu
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Don't like the idea of releasing stats into the round. Say you are going to fort then you want the race with the ships that offers best ability to fort. Say you are going to attack with friend(s) all round then you want to pick the races that compliment eachother in attacks. And as a alliance imagine telling your entire alliance to go with one race then the statmaker unintentionally give that race garbage ships.

Nah release stats early so people can analyze, after all that's the most fun part of planetarion anyway
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Unread 26 Sep 2012, 08:40   #52
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Why not release the stats on Wednesday at 20:00 of the starting week. It gives ally's 2 days to work, gives people enough time to play bp's and forts, but it doesn't allow for the usual 3 weeks of "spy time" and analysis.
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Unread 26 Sep 2012, 08:56   #53
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Why is it a problem that people completely analyze the stats? And people will easily manage that in 2 days anyway.
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Unread 26 Sep 2012, 09:44   #54
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Re: Round 49 Stats

just get rid of beta testing the stats for THAT round, and have them test the FOLLOWING round instead, the beta testing could then actually be tested for suggestions made during THAT round and see if they would work for the FOLLOWING round. run this instead of speed game, and it gives people something to do during ticks when theres not much else going on.
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Unread 26 Sep 2012, 17:05   #55
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Re: Round 49 Stats

That would require stats to be used for more than one round in a row though. No objections from me, of course, but keep in mind the bottomless pit our words disappear into.
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Unread 27 Sep 2012, 14:05   #56
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Re: Round 49 Stats

The collective entropy of your lost words warms the deep, dark demons within my soul whilst I contemplate my next stats decision.

Stats is still the major round change; to be honest, it's probably worthwhile going through previous round's stats and ranking them (anyone want to do that) so we have a semi decent pool, so when we finally do start making changes (honestly ... we will) we can just dust one of them off. A shortlist of 5 or so slightly different rounds (maybe one with 3 pods per race, one with steal ships on every race or something) that we can tweak.
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Unread 27 Sep 2012, 14:58   #57
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I know JBG said that R37 stats would be good to re-use, and he's never wrong. That's a good one for ST round at least.

R30 stats were also pretty good and had 3 podclasses
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Unread 30 Sep 2012, 20:33   #58
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Re: Round 49 Stats

who the hell are those stats on beta??

any explaination how they passed a vetting process from appoco?
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Unread 1 Oct 2012, 15:52   #59
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Maybe he looked at the others who had proposed stats and figured anything but those
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Unread 1 Oct 2012, 21:35   #60
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Stats on beta aren't final.
I put them up there as Theodd wanted to play around with them. However, I've been given several sets and need to review them; I'll choose one this week before the weekend so we can tweak it.
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 10:57   #61
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Re: Round 49 Stats

will we see the right set today ?
Atm the Cath/Ter combo seems a good one for an alliance.
-They can team up on all 3 pod classes
-Caths can research inc scan fast
-Ters can build Amps/Dists quick

As a solo i would probably pick Etd CR
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 14:02   #62
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I never liked 3 pod class stats.. If we're really going in that direction, just make all ships capable of capping like back in the early pax days

In the current beta ones, you have stuff like Ter FI that are totally useless anyway (multiple ships get free salvage from them).

Vshraak free steal on both ter and zik DE, pretty much forcing them to find a cath to team up with.. Xan BS seem very, very good. Both FR races are stopped by Razor's, which essentially becomes a ship like App's were last round and ziks are immune to FR incoming in the first place because mara's shoot before both anti BS ships in the FR roiding fleet (and both fire on BS as t2)

From my pov, the current set looks pretty shit for solo'ing unless you are emp, use Xan BS or Etd CR. More defensive than the past round for sure.
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 16:32   #63
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
I never liked 3 pod class stats.. If we're really going in that direction, just make all ships capable of capping like back in the early pax days

In the current beta ones, you have stuff like Ter FI that are totally useless anyway (multiple ships get free salvage from them).

Vshraak free steal on both ter and zik DE, pretty much forcing them to find a cath to team up with.. Xan BS seem very, very good. Both FR races are stopped by Razor's, which essentially becomes a ship like App's were last round and ziks are immune to FR incoming in the first place because mara's shoot before both anti BS ships in the FR roiding fleet (and both fire on BS as t2)

From my pov, the current set looks pretty shit for solo'ing unless you are emp, use Xan BS or Etd CR. More defensive than the past round for sure.


See im with you here that i really dont like the setup of these stats. I think although some people didnt like last rounds stats they idea behind them (more attacking, better for solo's) is the direction that PA stats should be going. These stats will make for a round that is dead by tick 500 because they push for activity, something which one particular alliance has in abundance and no one else does.
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 18:49   #64
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
See im with you here that i really dont like the setup of these stats. I think although some people didnt like last rounds stats they idea behind them (more attacking, better for solo's) is the direction that PA stats should be going. These stats will make for a round that is dead by tick 500 because they push for activity, something which one particular alliance has in abundance and no one else does.
dead by tick 500... Your logic and reasoning Kai has yet to stop amusing me.
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 19:22   #65
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Re: Round 49 Stats

You have a set of stats there theodd that require team ups to land are majorly defensive, as both require activity to be effective expect a certain alliance running away with the round and ending up nearly impossible to land. They were good deffers with attacking stats what do you honestly think they will be like with these majorly defensive ones???
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 20:05   #66
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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You have a set of stats there theodd that require team ups to land are majorly defensive, as both require activity to be effective expect a certain alliance running away with the round and ending up nearly impossible to land. They were good deffers with attacking stats what do you honestly think they will be like with these majorly defensive ones???
i'm gonna read that expect as except.

And ultores had a cruising round win, last round compared to their first 5 wins.
Even tho stats say they were one of the heaviest hit alliances...
And as for "defensive ship stats" and only big team ups will land... thats just trolling... As there are always planets out there you can solo... If you cant find these targets, then thats you being lazy or ignorant. And i said i have several changes lined up, but no intention of doing them. (unless appoco says we're using it) If not, then maybe for another round.

But dont you think its funny that you first whine that there is: 3 pod classes and all the fake potensials that come with it, and then say the stats are defensive?

Stats are always defensive if you get defence from the race/ships you need... ! Even somehow last round except for the shortage of anti Fi/De/BS.
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Unread 5 Oct 2012, 23:56   #67
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
i'm gonna read that expect as except.

And ultores had a cruising round win, last round compared to their first 5 wins.
Even tho stats say they were one of the heaviest hit alliances...
And as for "defensive ship stats" and only big team ups will land... thats just trolling... As there are always planets out there you can solo... If you cant find these targets, then thats you being lazy or ignorant. And i said i have several changes lined up, but no intention of doing them. (unless appoco says we're using it) If not, then maybe for another round.

But dont you think its funny that you first whine that there is: 3 pod classes and all the fake potensials that come with it, and then say the stats are defensive?

Stats are always defensive if you get defence from the race/ships you need... ! Even somehow last round except for the shortage of anti Fi/De/BS.
Yes it was except (I'm typing on my phone) please let me be clearer, you have to fake with these stats because none of the attack fleets really outweigh anything else. This is a common problem you will find with 3 pod classes for each race, with the need to make each pod classes half playable you end up adding to much anti to the table and lose the redundant pointless ships we see every round (ok possibly some of these ships have ingal potential but never massively outweigh their alliance eta alternative)

Yes ultores coasted this round but not because of stats, it was through bad choices and politics by everyone else and the fact morons still believe 'we will hit you till you join us' is still a good political move.


Good stats have proper gaps in them, they don't allow a planet to make itself practically immune to incs. Good stats allow solo's without the need to bash someone, which is the response you offered up. Good stats allow alliances and ingal to be equally defensively effective whilst still relying on a decent level of activity and variety to cover incs. Your stats do none of these things and are therefore poor.

Please don't tell us you have changes planned for them but you don't want to divulge until appoco says he will use them. It's a sad carrot dangling move to get your sub standard set used.
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Unread 6 Oct 2012, 05:51   #68
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Re: Round 49 Stats

you do realise that theres a limited number of players in an alliance, so if one race has the awesome anti fi ship but crap anti bs/fr and the alliance members go that race, then they will be weak vs bs/fr. if they spread the members over the races then you're limited again by having say 10 players (if done evenly) who will have that golden def ship that everyone raves about,

it basically comes down to team work. if an alliance wants the best attacking races they will have the sacrifice on the best defending races, however there are some alliances which will have members who want to help others rather then put themselves first and will go those defensive races for their team mates...
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Unread 6 Oct 2012, 06:16   #69
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Re: Round 49 Stats

The set currently on beta is a poor choice. You have to team up or to bash lowbies, that's not the PA I like.

I really hope Appocco will move in the right direction and pick another set.

I fear the typical non decision in the style of "TheOdd has put a lot of work into this one, let's give it a try...".
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 06:21   #70
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Re: Round 49 Stats

so, no choice, no discussion ????
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 08:21   #71
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Re: Round 49 Stats

just take an old set and dont tell ppl which round it was
why bother with tweakin and "balancing" a new set, they are all the same anyhow...

P.s. Appoco will it be MT or ST, so i know if i have to play or not, ta
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 08:41   #72
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Well the stats up in #beta are so far from playable that if they don't recieve major overhaul no one will play next round. I thought you wanted a 3 pod set of stats Appocomaster. Instead you choose a 2 pod lame ST set made by Kai, a person that has quit PA. IMO you shouldn't have any say or power over a game that you yourself don't play.
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 08:51   #73
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Tia do you just ignore posts?? I said I played last round, in dead soldiers. And he picked my set?? First I know about it. I offered a very rough set 2 weeks ago and asked if I could have them up on beta so I could use the calcs to tweak them. I heard nothing more from appoco and Theo's set went up so as far as I was concerned they weren't being used
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 08:53   #74
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Re: Round 49 Stats

a glimpse at those stats shows so many flaws that they might in fact be interesting to play.
Balanced stats are so boring.
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 10:30   #75
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Changes to be made to Kai's stats:

Ter Armor Reduced by 15%
Ter Damage Reduced by 20%
Harpy -> T1 Co T2 Fi
Gryphon -> De T1 Bs

Cath
Armor reduced by 10%
Viper T1 De no T2
Mantis D/C -> 340

Xan
Banshee Armor -> 5
Wraith Armor ->7
Wraith Damage ->9
Wraith T2 Fr
Bomber -> FR T1 Cr T2 De

Zik
Armor + 10%
Damage + 5%
Corsair -> Co T1 Fi T2 Fr
Cutter -> De T2 Fr
Clipper T2 -> De

Etd
Centaur T1 Cr T2 Bs
Tempest Armor -> 30 Damage ->23
Juggernaut Armor +10%
Lancer Armor ->9
Pillager Armor -> 12
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 10:33   #76
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Re: Round 49 Stats

no to all the changes in targeting (trying to plug the holes that were left on purpose will be counterproductive). OK with the rest
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 10:46   #77
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Re: Round 49 Stats

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DMzZUb3c#gid=0

Those are being used?
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 11:17   #78
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Tia done a good job here agree with most of his changes! Tho the terran bs needs more of the acdc change than the other terran ships.

Also the E/R need a total refiguration as its total garbage atm but dont think kai even looked on it yet.
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 11:26   #79
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I will do my best through the week to make them playable. That does not mean I will make them balanced tho, this first draft was to try and get the races set up according to their description. I haven't been able to use calcs at all to test these stats yet and make appropriate changes so please beat with me, I agree with some of Tia's suggestions but not all of them. I don't really want 'balanced' stats, I think this leads to a boring round
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 11:47   #80
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Xans looks a mess
Etd can't have it so that all they have to build is 3 ships, all of which are in roidingclasses
Ziks killing both fi and bs for free, not good imo.
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Unread 7 Oct 2012, 20:41   #81
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Why does zik have DE before FR?
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Unread 8 Oct 2012, 16:36   #82
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Re: Round 49 Stats

How does BS roid anything with these stats, when xan FR have first fire, and xan/ter CR fire the same time + all the EMP available?

Tbh, how are Ter and Zik even gonna manage with those stats, seeing that xan can def easily vs. the DE too? Corsair decent vs. DE, and then the Gryphs which have 0 loss vs. DE.

So basically, DE need FR teamups to be able to land. That's OK, but FR are very good alone, so it's not feasible for them to take DE along the ride.
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Unread 9 Oct 2012, 14:42   #83
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Putting a shout to anyone that can help. I'm gonna work on the stats on the train home tonight. Could anyone who knows please email the formula for calculating a/c and d/c to [email protected]. I'm sorry I'm not a maths genius so I don't remember them and its on my computer at home. If someone can provide this then I have 5 hrs to kill tonight on the train and can hopefully have a playable set ready for 2moro for your betaing pleasure


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Unread 9 Oct 2012, 15:25   #84
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Re: Round 49 Stats

You need to start off by working the targeting.
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Unread 9 Oct 2012, 17:37   #85
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Re: Round 49 Stats

It's kind of painful that you need to be reminded of either one of those things.
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Unread 9 Oct 2012, 17:46   #86
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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It's kind of painful that you need to be reminded of either one of those things.
Not really. As I Said have them both at home on my computer. Seeing as ill be working on an iPhone and pen and paper tonight I wanted to make sure I had them to reference and not get stuff wrong. Appoco provided everything i needed tho so thanks to him
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 04:02   #87
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Re: Round 49 Stats

just use Excel
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 10:45   #88
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Looking forward to see the (hopefully massive) changes made to the stats.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 12:26   #89
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I hope the changes will be minimal.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 12:45   #90
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Why? Those stats are terrible.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 12:45   #91
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I will be updating the spreadsheet and discussing with appoco when I get home from work.

Made the changes to Terran and cat that Tia suggested as I agreed with them. Made targeting changes to xan a few int changes. Overhauled zik and made a few changes to etd
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 15:06   #92
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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Why? Those stats are terrible.
You say terrible, I say messy... and messy could be fun.
Let see if the changes make them more boring... or as you would say 'playable'...
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 16:19   #93
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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You say terrible, I say messy... and messy could be fun.
Let see if the changes make them more boring... or as you would say 'playable'...
You want the entire uni to use the same ships?
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 16:43   #94
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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You want the entire uni to use the same ships?
Which ones ? I've talked to different people who've seen the stats not one has come up with the same choice. So please as you speak for the entire universe, enlighten me.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 16:48   #95
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Re: Round 49 Stats

I've already outlined some issues with these stats I think really hurts them, the biggest of which is that etd only have to buy three ships. That's rediculous.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 17:07   #96
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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Which ones ? I've talked to different people who've seen the stats not one has come up with the same choice. So please as you speak for the entire universe, enlighten me.
how are BS or DE playable on offence? That leaves out 2 races. How are these stats not Xan dominated?
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 17:09   #97
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Re: Round 49 Stats

worst xan stats i have ever seen, and i mostly play xan

thx for that Kai

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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 17:09   #98
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Re: Round 49 Stats

FR is pretty uber. Etd looks better than an to me, xan have to build so many different classes.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 17:24   #99
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Re: Round 49 Stats

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FR is pretty uber. Etd looks better than an to me, xan have to build so many different classes.
True about ETD, 3 are enough and that's very tough in an ST round. Xan can managed with 5 though.

But yeah, FR is very uber atm.
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Unread 10 Oct 2012, 17:30   #100
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Re: Round 49 Stats

Xan needs 5 classes (assuming they want to roid with fr). That is unplayable.
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