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Unread 1 Jun 2009, 14:50   #201
Thatcher
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Everyone was pretty happy with that. If this - Ascendancy stopping to go for the #1 alliance rank - was the BG's only aim, well, fair enough, well played guys, you got what you wanted. I don't understand the bitching about our decision then, though. You guys set yourself a goal pre-round, we adjusted ours mid-round. If you consider our current goals as shit (I am fine with viewing our goals as "shit"), well, then most certainly your goals were shit as well to start with since they are pretty much the same - everything else would just be hypocrisy.
oki, so BGs 'win' because they forced asc to abandon plan A and go for plan B when winning no longer became possible. Asc cant be said to have done the same as they had to switch plans out of necessity to salvage something from the round.
Asc effectivly ended the round, when one of the only 2 tags in contention for the win NAP and conceed victory there is no war left. sure you can bash our planets, but that really isnt a conest as there is nothing left to decide except maybe evo/dlr who were after #1 score avg or whatever.

asc have pulled a blinder thou, having removed the BGs, asc could easily drop nap with xvx and win the round afterall. i think this is the crux of the BGs complaints, xvx had the win, but now due to their idiocy xvx rely on the nap with asc. By doing this they also have put all the BGs efforts and round aims in danger.

BTW i dont get the 'BGs getting an easy ride' arguement,

xvx had an agreement with asc not to hit each others fortress galaxys (i believe it was 4+ members meant galaxy wasnt hit), xvx then got the brunt of asc incs for as long as they were at war (a week or so) and then since have had a nap with asc and many of the BGs

VS

BGs who started the round with a friendly agreement with each other, went to war with asc with very little support from ct and nd and finally had xvx join them. at this point many of the BGs made a nap with each other and xvx and had friendly agreements with ct/nd and all hit asc. when xvx Napped asc, some of the BGs ended nap with xvx and as a result had rock/xvx/asc all hitting them in a night.
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Unread 1 Jun 2009, 15:45   #202
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
oki, so BGs 'win' because they forced asc to abandon plan A and go for plan B when winning no longer became possible.
Yeah. At least from what I read on those forums that was the intention of almost all BGs around this time, no?

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Asc cant be said to have done the same as they had to switch plans out of necessity to salvage something from the round.
What? A round goes several weeks, if you notice you cannot achieve your original goal you might as well adjust it, and thus, by achieving that new goal, you win something. Keep in mind, success is a journey - and Ascendancy just decided that wreaking havoc on their way across BG City was more interesting than dominating Planetarion Country once again.

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Asc effectivly ended the round, when one of the only 2 tags in contention for the win NAP and conceed victory there is no war left. sure you can bash our planets, but that really isnt a conest as there is nothing left to decide except maybe evo/dlr who were after #1 score avg or whatever.
Asc is not around to entertain you or anyone else not in Ascendancy. Ascendancy is primarily about entertaining itself. So, if you want to blame Asc for "ending the round" (which, unsurprisingly, seems not to have happened yet) then that's about as hypocritical as the bg's deciding to not get involved with #1 alliance ranking, which effectively contributed a lot in creating the short-time two-horse-race.

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asc have pulled a blinder thou, having removed the BGs, asc could easily drop nap with xvx and win the round afterall. i think this is the crux of the BGs complaints, xvx had the win, but now due to their idiocy xvx rely on the nap with asc. By doing this they also have put all the BGs efforts and round aims in danger.
Err, the complaints from the BG's side started directly after the xvx-asc NAP was signed. It would be utterly stupid to drop the freshly-signed NAP right-away in such a situation, best is to go and beat the living shit out of those guys which annoyed us most all round long (you should take that as a compliment!). One way or another, there's still two weeks to go, and the gap between xvx and asc has been shrinking lately. So even if the NAP continues there's still a realistic chance that Asc might win the round. Needless to say that in occurance of such an event the BGs wouldn't have won anything.
Getting back to your quote above, are you now also blaming xvx? Sorry man, if there's anyone to blame for failure it is primarily yourself. I wholeheartedly agree with what lokken said about ascendancy's mistakes this round (being greedy and not focussed enough), and it is something we have to take blame for.
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Unread 1 Jun 2009, 15:57   #203
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Re: xVx - statement

lol.. i just love the lines like "this round we werent supposed to b playing activly"
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Unread 1 Jun 2009, 16:04   #204
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
lol.. i just love the lines like "this round we werent supposed to b playing activly"
I did not say that, all I said was that mid-round we decided that the activity required to actually compete with the sheer overwhelming numbers was something we were not interested in and thus acted accordingly.

But feel free to show me the post where someone said that.
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Unread 1 Jun 2009, 16:25   #205
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
are you now also blaming xvx? Sorry man, if there's anyone to blame for failure it is primarily yourself.
ofc i blame xvx, if they dont win this round it is 100% because they Napped a beaten ally and gave them breathing space. personally i dont think the BGs failed at any point, while the #1 ally rank slot was open for contest BEFORE xvx started hitting asc the BGs kept asc to a standstill, look at sandmans and the great big bit of your tick history were as an ally you made no roid gains. after u give xvx the win and nap them, what exactly was there for the BGs to continue playing for? not our fault that xvx hc made such a basic error.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 02:23   #206
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Re: xVx - statement

There are 2 major political change in the round:


A) xVx joined the block in being hostile to Ascendancy
B) After 5 nights, Ascendancy and xVx napped.

Now the chronological order of how the round went based on the above major change are, or what Sandman says:

1) From start of round to point-A. Ascendancy is winning - while fighting off the block (w/out xVx). Admittedly, Ascendancy isn't killing the opposition as successful, but enough to gain positive roids. Being gangbanged daily whilst still putting the alliance/s they chose hit be on negative roids.
2) Point A - xVx joined the block. As mz calls it: "the needle that broke the camel's back". Ascendancy loosing big-time, being owned by everyone in the block, sucking, on the way for a sure loss etc.. whatever one feels to call it.
3) xVx and Ascendancy agreed for a NAP, Asc gave the round win to xVx to fight off the rest of the opposition without xVx as part of it. At this point both xVx and Ascendancy is attacking the opposition (minus xVx). The rate of score/roid losses suffered by the opposition is enormouse compared to #1.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 07:08   #207
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Re: xVx - statement

What I am curious about is why the BG block appears to have fallen into disarray. Isn't this situation--Ascendancy picking BGs off one by one--exactly the reason why you started cooperating in the first place? This is from earlier in the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
[G]oing around bashing on BGs earlier would've just accelerated the formation of our anti-Ascendancy block and we'd have reached the tick 450 situation sooner.
So where is it?
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 08:21   #208
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Re: xVx - statement

Because most of the players in the BG's are too scared of losing roids and forget their fleets are more important.

Vacation mode is also the easy way out when your on a 1.5k - 2k stack of roids - but to me this is pointless, should just take your roiding and move on. Which... is what a few of my ally mates and others in the universe have failed to do. I can't help but feel this is counter productive as Asc know just to hang in there because whoever the opposing block are - they will just fall apart as soon as they see incs. And of course they will just be roided when they come out of vacation mode, lose out on income and become comparitively easier to hit.

*Sigh*

The solution is the rise of an alliance capable of recruiting and functioning with unselfish players - otherwise alliance minded players outside of Asc will continue to play for planet rank only and more small groups will form.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 08:26   #209
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Re: xVx - statement

mz.. as there has been so much shit goin on this round im guessing ppl just dont bother to play nemore.. they just send to someone once in a while and thats basicly it :P..

also there has been quite alot of backstabbing as ive heared so ppl just dont bother nemore
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 08:56   #210
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
What I am curious about is why the BG block appears to have fallen into disarray. Isn't this situation--Ascendancy picking BGs off one by one--exactly the reason why you started cooperating in the first place? This is from earlier in the thread:


So where is it?
It's tick 889 and who ends up as nr1 ally still isnt decided, so the BG's did their job.
But I guess thats one problem when you dont play for your own ally rank or planet rank, but try to balance the round and influence other alliances ranks instead. When the ally you tried to get in nr1 spot turns out even worse in some cases than the ally you bashed out of the nr1 spot you end up with nothing left to fight for.

besides that, I guess neroon is right too, can you blame anyone for quitting a round where nr1 and nr2 alliances, the 2 biggest by far are napped and are happily roiding everyone else together, instead of fighting for the nr1 spot?
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 09:29   #211
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Re: xVx - statement

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but i guess thats one problem when you dont play for your own ally rank or planet rank, but try to balance the round and influence other alliances ranks instead.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 09:52   #212
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
It's tick 889 and who ends up as nr1 ally still isnt decided, so the BG's did their job.
Doesn't that mean they didn't do their job? I was under the impression they were trying to prevent asc from winning.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 11:25   #213
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
It's tick 889 and who ends up as nr1 ally still isnt decided, so the BG's did their job.
But I guess thats one problem when you dont play for your own ally rank or planet rank, but try to balance the round and influence other alliances ranks instead. When the ally you tried to get in nr1 spot turns out even worse in some cases than the ally you bashed out of the nr1 spot you end up with nothing left to fight for.

besides that, I guess neroon is right too, can you blame anyone for quitting a round where nr1 and nr2 alliances, the 2 biggest by far are napped and are happily roiding everyone else together, instead of fighting for the nr1 spot?
spot on analysis
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 11:57   #214
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Re: xVx - statement

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Doesn't that mean they didn't do their job? I was under the impression they were trying to prevent asc from winning.
That is the biggest misconception of this entire discussion. The aim of the battlegroup coalition wasn't to prevent ascendancy's victory nor was it to help xvx win the round. The BG-s were hit one by one by ascendancy and it was vital for their own survival to hit ascendancy together. As a bonus they would not get incomings from themselves and they figured that xvx would continue to galraid and/or start hitting ascendancy when they saw the chance of victory.

Ascendancy did great though, declaring that they won't be going for the victory was a brilliant move. Of course it shouldn't have worked, the battlegroups should have quickly switched to xvx to balance the top alliances out asap. Unfortunately the battlegroup command didn't want to do that. Worse still the co-ordinated targetting of asc was given up after xvx's withdrawal. When xvx napped asc it should've been VITAL for the survival of the battlegroups to start hitting xvx with all their power to force asc back into the position of the title contender and/or to force xvx/cardi into giving up the nap with asc. Unfortunately this wasn't done either. Now we're seeing wars between SPOOOOON and DLR and retarded stuff like that. If xvx doesn't drop the nap with asc then asc will win the round. I'd imagine asc might even hit xvx's fortresses out of boredom in the final week of the round. As for the battlegroups i would suggest to support their top planets by organizing/escorting XP hits on top asc/xvx players.

It's been a weird round tho, but that's what happens when you have only 2 title contenders and an alliance tag limit of 90. PLEASE limit the alliance tags to 50 ASAP for more diverse, interesting and dynamic rounds.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 12:51   #215
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Re: xVx - statement

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PLEASE limit the alliance tags to 50 ASAP for more diverse, interesting and dynamic rounds.
I agree with most of the things you're saying, but i had to comment on that statement.
What good will lowering taglimits really do when there is no "rule" to prevent alliances from recruiting 2-3 times more players than is actually allowed to be in a single tag?
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 13:07   #216
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
I agree with most of the things you're saying, but i had to comment on that statement.
What good will lowering taglimits really do when there is no "rule" to prevent alliances from recruiting 2-3 times more players than is actually allowed to be in a single tag?
that is why support planet rule also needs to return

btw i believe tag limit will be 60 next rd with every planet intag counting.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 13:13   #217
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Re: xVx - statement

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that is why support planet rule also needs to return

the support planet rule was incredibly shit. if anyone is considering re-introducing that, PLEASE give it careful thought and look at it from as many angles as possible before going forward with it.

there has to be a better way though.......
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:00   #218
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Re: xVx - statement

In other news, Everton Aston Villa and Tottenham has asked for the Premier Leagur rules to allow only 8 players on the field in the future to allow more teams to compete for the title.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:01   #219
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
the support planet rule was incredibly shit. if anyone is considering re-introducing that, PLEASE give it careful thought and look at it from as many angles as possible before going forward with it.

there has to be a better way though.......
true, but i would prefer the old rule back than continue with the farce of planets with just one ship type and massed out of tag planets.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:29   #220
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
that is why support planet rule also needs to return

btw i believe tag limit will be 60 next rd with every planet intag counting.


oh okay.
We will make two tags then. Share the same channel though, since we are fully allied and stuff.

So..... what are you going to do now?

Edit: And what about people like lokken who just want to 'contribute' to ascendancy and refuse to be in the tag. Is he a 'mindless drone'? What if his game-fun is defined by just contributing and seeing ascendancy perform? (i mean this is about ascendancy having a few 'proper' players out of tag who realize their limitations and build a few nixes and recluses or whatever beats the eta penalty)


You are so retarded posing that in so many different dimensions
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:29   #221
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
I agree with most of the things you're saying, but i had to comment on that statement.
What good will lowering taglimits really do when there is no "rule" to prevent alliances from recruiting 2-3 times more players than is actually allowed to be in a single tag?
Even with a certain alliance making 2 or even 3 tags under the new rules the smaller groups will find it easier to form blocks and compete with the 2-3 tag alliance. There have been rounds with 2 huge blocks fighting each other and it's worked out fine. The problem at the moment was that it was really hard to form 2 blocks which would balance each other. In a smaller tag limit scenario the two top alliances would not be able to kill off the entire round by naping each other. If you give it a thought the round will be more dynamic, intense and fun.

My point is that EVEN if let's say ascendancy manages to recruit upto 150 and form 3 tags of 50, the rest of the universe will find it easier to balance and counter them. Another idea would be to implement a system for tags to form ingame blocks and alliances. Like there's a war going on in the universe between 2 sides and each tag of atleast 30 players will have to choose a side. Something like that atleast .. but imho the smaller tag limit would be suffiecient to end situations like we're in this round.

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Originally Posted by Desse View Post
In other news, Everton Aston Villa and Tottenham has asked for the Premier Leagur rules to allow only 8 players on the field in the future to allow more teams to compete for the title.
The problem is Planetarion doesn't have enough professional players to support more than 4 or 5 90-man alliances which are good enough to compete for top1. And for that we'd have to unite the battlegroups. With a smaller tag limit the game would have more possible coalitions and blocks, more diverse and interesting inter-alliance relations, more possible scenarios for a round to play out.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:43   #222
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Re: xVx - statement

What I see, is that the former alliances breaks up in smaller tags to "have more fun". That prevents them from competing for the top spot.

Now to compete for the top spot, they demand that the tag limit is lowered to suit their needs.

4-5 tags competing for top spot is more than enough in my book. There hasn't been that many alliances competing for the top spot in most rounds of planetarion going back to the Legion/Fury/Xanadu times.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:54   #223
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Re: xVx - statement

the best phrase in this thread so far is "retarded posers"
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 14:59   #224
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Re: xVx - statement

I think it's pretty funny that say there's either 180 (or 210) people in asc/xvx who clearly think this round's alliance limit isn't that bad. And a smaller group of 130 or so who demand that something gets done about this appalling situation. I just don't get it really. Why couldn't evolution and DLR merge pre-round and join xvx and ascendancy as contenders? Surely it couldn't have been that difficult to work together seeing as you were basically doing it anyways this round?

On a personal note I just thought this would be a pretty hilarious option after reading posts like this. We're, er, doing that anyways pretty much!


Incidentally I think a lot of these problems regarding tag limits would be improved by just getting rid of tag rankings. This would have actually given the BGs something coherent to fight for this round (domination of the top gal/planet ranks). In this case you can actually beat both xvx and ascendancy instead of the retarded situation we got.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 15:36   #225
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I think it's pretty funny that say there's either 180 (or 210) people in asc/xvx who clearly think this round's alliance limit isn't that bad. And a smaller group of 130 or so who demand that something gets done about this appalling situation.
Juggling with numbers in your own intrest there. When you just count the BG tags you get around 190 players there that allready choose to play in a smaller tag this round.

You also kindly forgot about 10 other alliances (ND,rock,f-crew,vengeance,hidden agenda,orbit,Tof,....). Maybe they aren't whining and bitching about it, but I think if we would ask them, they'd be in favour of smaller tags. Seeing as also last round alot had problems filling their tag (it only got worse this round with the bgs apearing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Incidentally I think a lot of these problems regarding tag limits would be improved by just getting rid of tag rankings. This would have actually given the BGs something coherent to fight for this round (domination of the top gal/planet ranks). In this case you can actually beat both xvx and ascendancy instead of the retarded situation we got.
Yes, because defending a top planet/gal with 30 vs 90 would be viable. Certainly as you seem to propose flagshipping those planets and in that way leaving the others on their own. Sure those 30 fleets will be of the same size of the top 50 in eg Asc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
the support planet rule was incredibly shit. if anyone is considering re-introducing that, PLEASE give it careful thought and look at it from as many angles as possible before going forward with it.
Support planet rule as it was is just a bad idea overall, we'd have to find other solutions.

I've read about ingame-built politics. Why don't we search into that direction? You can att together / defend with your allies ...

Base calculations (salvage/capping/...) on the number of allies your alliance has. Having allies is expensive.

I'm not saying these are the way forward, but We should consider every option before going into another ****ed up round like this one. I don't wanna feel like i should thank a bunch of liths for atleast being able to bring a 2nd 90 man ally into the game.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 15:45   #226
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten View Post
You also kindly forgot about 10 other alliances (ND,rock,f-crew,vengeance,hidden agenda,orbit,Tof,....). Maybe they aren't whining and bitching about it, but I think if we would ask them, they'd be in favour of smaller tags. Seeing as also last round alot had problems filling their tag (it only got worse this round with the bgs apearing).
I know that I quit as VGN HC at the end of last round - but it had nothing to do with tag sizes. Indeed, I'm on record (several times) as being violently opposed to smaller limits. As for the BGs - just because a few players chose to play in smaller groups this round that's no reason to impose that method of play on the rest of us.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 15:47   #227
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Re: xVx - statement

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Yes, because defending a top planet/gal with 30 vs 90 would be viable. Certainly as you seem to propose flagshipping those planets and in that way leaving the others on their own. Sure those 30 fleets will be of the same size of the top 50 in eg Asc.
Recruit more people or merge with another BG then. If you've chosen to play with a self imposed limit for whatever reason, then don't whine about not having enough planets.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 15:49   #228
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
I know that I quit as VGN HC at the end of last round - but it had nothing to do with tag sizes. Indeed, I'm on record (several times) as being violently opposed to smaller limits. As for the BGs - just because a few players chose to play in smaller groups this round that's no reason to impose that method of play on the rest of us.
You are absolutely right, i shouldn't have generalised. Ofcourse not everyone in the bgs/other alliances are for lower limits. Still that was not the idea about my post. I over generalised just as much as JBG did, which was more what i wanted to adress.


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Recruit more people or merge with another BG then. If you've chosen to play with a self imposed limit for whatever reason, then don't whine about not having enough planets.
Guess you completely missed that was a hypothetical situation where we'd flagship our top galaxies. We have not done this.

In addition and totally besides the point: When 2 alliances merge they can not become bigger then 50 planets put together. This kinda made it impossible for any of the bgs to merge without loosing score because of having to leave tag for 48 h.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:08   #229
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten View Post
Juggling with numbers in your own intrest there. When you just count the BG tags you get around 190 players there that allready choose to play in a smaller tag this round.
I didn't count saints as, from what I've been told, they weren't part of the "bg movement" this round, in that they've played together as that group in a number of different places. This is just what I've heard though.

Quote:
You also kindly forgot about 10 other alliances (ND,rock,f-crew,vengeance,hidden agenda,orbit,Tof,....). Maybe they aren't whining and bitching about it, but I think if we would ask them, they'd be in favour of smaller tags. Seeing as also last round alot had problems filling their tag (it only got worse this round with the bgs apearing).
Rock have filled their tag this round (or near enough). ND aren't exactly that far off it either. Most of those alliances I don't think are really that bothered by the size of other alliances. They, largely, have their own set of priorities and interests which are primarily based around the size of their own alliance and their ability to play pa in a normal fashion (which is helped this round by the decrease gal sizes).

Quote:
Yes, because defending a top planet/gal with 30 vs 90 would be viable. Certainly as you seem to propose flagshipping those planets and in that way leaving the others on their own. Sure those 30 fleets will be of the same size of the top 50 in eg Asc.
I'm not proposing flagshipping. Does nobody remember how these things can actually work heh?

As amnion says, and I stated more emphatically, the number of people who want smaller tag limits doesn't really seem to be that high. From speaking to a number of other people in other alliances most seem more annoyed at the bgs for taking out a substantial chunk of the active non-ascendancy playerbase and turning the round into the most unimaginably dull one-dimensional contest (ie ascendancy or xvx as #1 and basically no other options), than at ascendancy for playing this round with roughly the same number of players we finished last round with.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:18   #230
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten View Post
Guess you completely missed that was a hypothetical situation where we'd flagship our top galaxies. We have not done this.
Yes, and in that hypothetical situation you proposed you could hypothetically have merged pre-tickstart with another BG, giving you the planets you need to flagship or compete for the win. I'm not knocking the way you choose to play the game, I'm just saying that once you have accepted the limitations of playing with a self imposed limit, you're going to have to live with them.

Quote:
In addition and totally besides the point: When 2 alliances merge they can not become bigger then 50 planets put together. This kinda made it impossible for any of the bgs to merge without loosing score because of having to leave tag for 48 h.
Is that how it actually works? I thought that limit was for the induvidual alliances merging size beforehand, and that you couldn't go over the 90 scoring planets size as a result of the merge. The manual (heh) is pretty unclear.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:25   #231
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I didn't count saints as, from what I've been told, they weren't part of the "bg movement" this round, in that they've played together as that group in a number of different places. This is just what I've heard though.
You are right, we did play together before (most of us anyway). Doesn't mean we didn't choose to play in a small group this round.

Rock indeed filled their tag, ND is missing 16 more planets.

What i've tried to bring across though isn't that much about concrete numbers, it's about the % of your tag that is able to play this game. You must agree with me, that the playing field not in asc/xVx/bg's isn't up to the same level. (This is indeed partly because the bgs went away with alot of the best members of those alliances, and we should even credit the alliances for trying to rebuild etc, this stuff takes time.)

If you lower alliance tags, i'd imagine that all tags could get filled with higher potential players. (The talk about noob-friendlyness fitting into this is something that'd need more work tough)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Yes, and in that hypothetical situation you proposed you could hypothetically have merged pre-tickstart with another BG, giving you the planets you need to flagship or compete for the win. I'm not knocking the way you choose to play the game, I'm just saying that once you have accepted the limitations of playing with a self imposed limit, you're going to have to live with them.
I think we have lived with them. Don't think you see us whining about bgs being slaughtered cause of alliance tags this round. (In fact, if the political choises made by xVx/asc had been different, the bg tags would still be up there).

I was under the impression we were talking about a next round, and my suggestion for lowering alliance limits for that one still stands.

Quote:
Is that how it actually works? I thought that limit was for the induvidual alliances merging size beforehand, and that you couldn't go over the 90 scoring planets size as a result of the merge. The manual (heh) is pretty unclear.
I seem to remember a message on alliance page suggesting that it cldn't be over 50 together, could be wrong tough, and the option to merge has now been removed.


Anyways, as my planet name kindly suggestes i shouldn't even be bothering about this. I'm just at work and bored after another 24h of no ticks.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:27   #232
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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
It's tick 889 and who ends up as nr1 ally still isnt decided, so the BG's did their job.
Your only goal was to create an environment in which other people can have fun? No wonder you're quitting. :/

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Originally Posted by HK View Post
That is the biggest misconception of this entire discussion. The aim of the battlegroup coalition wasn't to prevent ascendancy's victory nor was it to help xvx win the round.
Maybe that wasn't your goal, but there is no shortage of people who would disagree, the first quote of this post being one of many. It's not a misconception, it's just something you're not in agreement over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Is that how it actually works? I thought that limit was for the induvidual alliances merging size beforehand, and that you couldn't go over the 90 scoring planets size as a result of the merge. The manual (heh) is pretty unclear.
Yeah, an alliance of 20 can merge with an alliance of 30. An alliance of 50 cannot merge. Also, alliances cannot merge at all after tick 672.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:35   #233
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Re: xVx - statement

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Your only goal was to create an environment in which other people can have fun? No wonder you're quitting. :/
At least it's a noble goal mz
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:53   #234
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Re: xVx - statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten
If you lower alliance tags, i'd imagine that all tags could get filled with higher potential players.
This seems absurd to claim in a universe where you just acknowledged the majority of the quality players are either in two main alliances or were so repelled by the idea of joining alliances they perceived as of lower quality that they set up smaller tags with zero chance of competing for the round win. As mz pointed out on PD a while ago the alliance tag limit really has very little impact on the number of alliances playing and/or competing. I mean we went from 4 alliances with a shot last round to 2 with a chance this round after lowering the tag limit?
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 16:55   #235
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
This seems absurd to claim in a universe where you just acknowledged the majority of the quality players are either in two main alliances or were so repelled by the idea of joining alliances they perceived as of lower quality that they set up smaller tags with zero chance of competing for the round win. As mz pointed out on PD a while ago the alliance tag limit really has very little impact on the number of alliances playing and/or competing. I mean we went from 4 alliances with a shot last round to 2 with a chance this round after lowering the tag limit?
Your speaking as if those 2 alliances play to the tag limit. Which they dont, especially asc. If they did then alliance tag limit would make a difference.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:09   #236
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Re: xVx - statement

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Your speaking as if those 2 alliances play to the tag limit. Which they dont, especially asc. If they did then alliance tag limit would make a difference.
The 20 odd planets we have out of tag wouldn't play for any other alliance and certainly wouldn't play in a meaningful fashion. If the support planet rule was reintroduced right now they'd probably play for ascendancy as far as the support planet rule allows or not at all. And considering I know them all far better than probably anyone else does I feel fairly confident in this assertion.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:14   #237
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
This seems absurd to claim in a universe where you just acknowledged the majority of the quality players are either in two main alliances or were so repelled by the idea of joining alliances they perceived as of lower quality that they set up smaller tags with zero chance of competing for the round win. As mz pointed out on PD a while ago the alliance tag limit really has very little impact on the number of alliances playing and/or competing. I mean we went from 4 alliances with a shot last round to 2 with a chance this round after lowering the tag limit?
Seriously tough, last round didn't have 4 alliances with a shot at rank 1. There were 2. Asc and Omen. CT/ND weren't even close to having the potential to end #1, in fact if ASC/Omen hadn't been warring since PT 72 ND/CT wouldn't have ended with as much roids/score as they did.

Anyways, You make some good points, and indeed maybe lowering alliance limit won't change a f*ng thing. Pa has a summer round ahead, and those suck 99% of the time anyways. If you have better suggestions then lowering the tag limit to avoid a ****ed up round like this one tough, I'm sure there will be plenty eager to hear/critisize them, cause at this moment I don't see any.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:20   #238
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
This seems absurd to claim in a universe where you just acknowledged the majority of the quality players are either in two main alliances or were so repelled by the idea of joining alliances they perceived as of lower quality that they set up smaller tags with zero chance of competing for the round win. As mz pointed out on PD a while ago the alliance tag limit really has very little impact on the number of alliances playing and/or competing. I mean we went from 4 alliances with a shot last round to 2 with a chance this round after lowering the tag limit?
I don't consider ND and CT as alliances capable of competing for a round win. Even with a full tag like in round 30. It is absolutely impossible to have more than 2 good alliances capable of competing for a round victory with the size of the current playerbase. I'm not saying that this has never happened before this round, as is obviously has. I'm just saying that this game would be better for everyone if the alliance limits were decreased significantly. Those good players forming smaller tags (or battlegroups) are just increasingly showing that the community wants to play this game in smaller groups.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:20   #239
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Re: xVx - statement

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if ASC/Omen hadn't been warring since PT 72 ND/CT wouldn't have ended with as much roids/score as they did.
Yeah, if.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:23   #240
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Re: xVx - statement

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Seriously tough, last round didn't have 4 alliances with a shot at rank 1. There were 2. Asc and Omen. CT/ND weren't even close to having the potential to end #1, in fact if ASC/Omen hadn't been warring since PT 72 ND/CT wouldn't have ended with as much roids/score as they did.
You're just looking at events after the fact and drawing conclusions that simply weren't true. This round could easily have panned out, and indeed a lot of people expected it to, that only Ascendancy would have had a chance of being #1. All four alliances last round were contenders, all four could have won if events had panned out differently.

Quote:
Anyways, You make some good points, and indeed maybe lowering alliance limit won't change a f*ng thing. Pa has a summer round ahead, and those suck 99% of the time anyways. If you have better suggestions then lowering the tag limit to avoid a ****ed up round like this one tough, I'm sure there will be plenty eager to hear/critisize them, cause at this moment I don't see any.
I'd get rid of alliance rankings, drop the waiting period for changing tag to 24 hours, raise the merging limit to whatever the alliance limit is, raise salvage and get some ****ing half-decent stats.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:30   #241
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by HK View Post
I don't consider ND and CT as alliances capable of competing for a round win. Even with a full tag like in round 30. It is absolutely impossible to have more than 2 good alliances capable of competing for a round victory with the size of the current playerbase. I'm not saying that this has never happened before this round, as is obviously has. I'm just saying that this game would be better for everyone if the alliance limits were decreased significantly. Those good players forming smaller tags (or battlegroups) are just increasingly showing that the community wants to play this game in smaller groups.
It's not that difficult for an "inferior" alliance to end up as #1. The numbers I've heard thrown around are size limits of 50 and 60. There are 540 odd planets in alliances over 60 members. There are about 400 or so (I stopped counting at sub 10 person alliances and I discounted PATSA, what the **** 38 members, and toot the support tag) in alliances with less than 60 members. To be honest it looks like the community is either split on this or prefers to play in slightly larger alliances than are being asked for.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:31   #242
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Re: xVx - statement

Being in ND last round (DC/BC) I can tell you, and I think most will that we never were a contender.

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I'd get rid of alliance rankings, drop the waiting period for changing tag to 24 hours, raise the merging limit to whatever the alliance limit is, raise salvage and get some ****ing half-decent stats.
imo salvage is finally at a level where it should be. Stats just aren't made for this salvage system.

Getting rid of alliance rankings might work, altough I fear planetarion will be moving into a situation that we saw in ******** (a lot of whining because Dragons was kinda in the same position ASC is (numbers wise)) and still see the biggest alliance dominating.

Changing the 48h to 24 h + merge limit might mean some allies will merge, altough I'd think with ally ranks not counting this is kinda obsolete, as they shld just allow everything.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 17:52   #243
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Re: xVx - statement

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Being in ND last round (DC/BC) I can tell you, and I think most will that we never were a contender.
And that's part of the reason why you lost. PA is massively about image these days, and it always has been to some extent. The main reason alliances lose in pax is because they stop playing. Big planets lose roids, get annoyed, go roid noobs and just lose those roids back to the alliance that roided them in the first place. Some dude crashes, gets annoyed, doesn't care as much any more and crashes even more. A medium sized planet who defends a lot sees his planet lose 4 waves in a night so some dc can cover himself, gets annoyed, stops defending. You were ahead, with more roids in the top 60, and a favourable political situation with ten days to go. I mean jesus ****ing christ.

ND failed at the most basic aspects of PA and that's what cost them the win. I mean launch/recall if covered, run fleet from incs. I'm pretty sure everyone in ND knows what is required. There was just a bad attitude of "we can't win, we don't have a chance" in play which led to the situation where you guys were losing so much score you'd actually have been better off getting every planet to prelaunch away their fleet and just let us roid you. Quite frankly the problem wasn't even with the average member, the problem was with the active people who thought of everyone else as noobs who couldn't beat ascendancy. I witnessed it partially in Ascendancy this round, this "defeatist culture" where people seem to prefer spending their time making predictions of shitness and failure rather than actually working to improve their situation and it ****ing disgusts me. Every second you spent thinking you wouldn't win was a second you weren't spending thinking about how to beat us. And that is what cost you the win last round. It's the same reason I stepped in and made our deal with xvx this round.

Quote:
imo salvage is finally at a level where it should be. Stats just aren't made for this salvage system.
Making wars a matter of numbers even more than they already were was a mistake in my opinion. If there's no reward for activity, and little room for skill, it's hard to see a way forward for planetarion as a game.

Quote:
Getting rid of alliance rankings might work, altough I fear planetarion will be moving into a situation that we saw in ******** (a lot of whining because Dragons was kinda in the same position ASC is (numbers wise)) and still see the biggest alliance dominating.
I can deal with that problem. Mainly because I'm that awesome!

Quote:
Changing the 48h to 24 h + merge limit might mean some allies will merge, altough I'd think with ally ranks not counting this is kinda obsolete, as they shld just allow everything.
The -1 for defence would still be fairly significant.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 18:58   #244
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Re: xVx - statement

I am not fully agreeing you stepped in jonnyboy. I think things were heading that way in Asc anyway. The whole 'invite death' thingy etc. Could be off on the timeline and you certainly sped things up, but don't overestimate that.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 19:23   #245
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Re: xVx - statement

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
oh okay.
We will make two tags then. Share the same channel though, since we are fully allied and stuff.

So..... what are you going to do now?

Edit: And what about people like lokken who just want to 'contribute' to ascendancy and refuse to be in the tag. Is he a 'mindless drone'? What if his game-fun is defined by just contributing and seeing ascendancy perform? (i mean this is about ascendancy having a few 'proper' players out of tag who realize their limitations and build a few nixes and recluses or whatever beats the eta penalty)
iam fine with you creating two tags, i far prefer it to a situation where you have 40 planets out of tag.

i think the majority of the community has a problem with planets played only to produce one type of ship to defend friends out of tag.

either remove allaince tag ranking, remove tag limit or enforce the support planet rule. any of the above will i feel help the universe balance itself.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 19:28   #246
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Re: xVx - statement

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iam fine with you creating two tags, i far prefer it to a situation where you have 40 planets out of tag.
Ascendancy has 2 tags already, TOOT THE ALLIANCE and TOOT THE SUPPORT TAG.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 19:35   #247
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Re: xVx - statement

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either remove allaince tag ranking, remove tag limit or enforce the support planet rule. any of the above will i feel help the universe balance itself.

i still sense a disturbance in the force.





on a more serious note, stop trying to alter the rules constantly to 'improve' the game. improve your playing.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 19:41   #248
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Re: xVx - statement

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I am not fully agreeing you stepped in jonnyboy. I think things were heading that way in Asc anyway. The whole 'invite death' thingy etc. Could be off on the timeline and you certainly sped things up, but don't overestimate that.
I saw nobody take any initiative in any direction along these lines whatsoever. Especially you.
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Unread 2 Jun 2009, 20:48   #249
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Re: xVx - statement

I think this whole thing of planets not counting for score but being in tag is silly. By all means if an alliance has the players they can play in a second tag. Everyone in a tag should count, so we should get rid of the 30 non-counting players and just settle for 60.

But a lot of this discussion shows how limited political play is becoming. The fact that the BG's see this as a bipolar game but where they only hit on one alliance is just plain bad strategy for them. This round of course, is perfect demonstration. If many of them managed to restrain their singleminded desire to stop Ascendancy and looked a bit fair handed they might have been able to play alliances off one another and increase the chances of their survival.

On top of that, the BG's claim 30 men can't defend a galaxy; **** me, haven't most of you got experience of fencing a gal with different alliances so it actually has a large defence pool and less people actually attacking it.

The other thing that was mentioned was removing tags - one thing you need to think about here is the effect of this would probably be to add value to the galaxy/planet rankings. As alliance supremacy would be open to debate, and factors such as dominance, top planets and tagged galaxies would be a factor in determining who won. It's clear that in the more recent rounds the winner has generally been the one out of a group of leading planets/galaxies that's hit the least ends up winning. I think getting rid of alliance rankings would up the ante on these rankings and force individual planets and galaxies to produce outstanding rounds to actually win. So we'd actually have clear winners.
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Unread 3 Jun 2009, 00:33   #250
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Re: xVx - statement

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true, but i would prefer the old rule back than continue with the farce of planets with just one ship type and massed out of tag planets.

simple solution is to get out of tag / out of gal def hard coded to be banned.
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