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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 19:34   #51
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Thanks mz.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 20:11   #52
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Its a eff/armor issue. Not a targetting issue.
BS/fireblade interaction is to be modify slightly.
Waiting on the last comments from a few people before doing it
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 22:07   #53
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u5w768g9dh4qdyf

Would you land that?

Same Calc just increased the value of each fleet 10x Sure it may be landable when the loss is only 70k, but if you make the calc 400 ticks later in the round do you land? No of course not.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 22:38   #54
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u5w768g9dh4qdyf

Would you land that?

Same Calc just increased the value of each fleet 10x Sure it may be landable when the loss is only 70k, but if you make the calc 400 ticks later in the round do you land? No of course not.
The FR damage on bs is very high atm compared to other rounds.
Any obvious imbalance will be adjusted, as i said allready.
The xan should be able to solo ter bs.
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Unread 20 Dec 2015, 23:53   #55
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Also that calc is a Fr attack based Terran, If you flip the values of Ter Bs and Ter Fr its much harder to land that. Unless you intend on reducing Ter Bs A/C to worthless or increase fireblade D/C to god level Xan Fr will never be able to roid Ter bs.
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Unread 21 Dec 2015, 03:09   #56
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u5w768g9dh4qdyf

Would you land that?

Same Calc just increased the value of each fleet 10x Sure it may be landable when the loss is only 70k, but if you make the calc 400 ticks later in the round do you land? No of course not.
Stop making unrealistic calcs... why does the Ter BS have equal ammount, while the xan Fr is setup with mostly anti BS?
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Unread 21 Dec 2015, 03:47   #57
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Ok then mr TheoDD what should the ratio be, of a Ter Fr that use bs to def fr/de.

And what ratio should a xan fr be?

Edit: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=va8biy38yudfumd
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Unread 21 Dec 2015, 08:49   #58
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

moved Dreadnought to init 6.
Ghost to init 5.
Thief now T2 CR, T3 FI.
A few changes to armor/damage.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 02:13   #59
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Ok then mr TheoDD what should the ratio be, of a Ter Fr that use bs to def fr/de.

And what ratio should a xan fr be?

Edit: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=va8biy38yudfumd
What i find most svart about this thread isnt the stats, its that the stats wizard tia is making no sense. First xan unplayable. Then xan fr cant land ter bs (which 90% would land) then show a new calc thats still a land. Also that he cant find decent ratios for ships. All this is extremly scary. I agree that the stats isnt that good, but at least try to discredit them so it makes sense and not so you seem ignorant. At least when your stats are the one most lilely getting picked
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 02:18   #60
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Xan, being unplayable has nothing to do with its ability to attack into Ter Bs. Xan still has to build both Fi ships, as it has no other way to cover fr or De than with fi. I admit Xan Fr has great attack options but it has the the main problem of it roids itself.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 05:53   #61
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
... then show a new calc thats still a land. ...
Keep in mind that was almost a week ago - the stats have changed and will affect old calcs.

Last edited by Patrikc; 26 Dec 2015 at 05:58.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 11:44   #62
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Keep in mind that was almost a week ago - the stats have changed and will affect old calcs.
Aint that all the purpose with making calcs?
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 14:00   #63
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Aint that all the purpose with making calcs?
Obviously. You are missing Patrikc's point.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 14:40   #64
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Obviously. You are missing Patrikc's point.
What was hia point? The worst calcs was modified. And tia,still claims xan is unplayable?
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 16:03   #65
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

That you can't call someone wrong by looking at a calc he made 5 days ago, as I'm quite sure it had a different outcome then. I believe you lowered Ter Bs damage, for example, which was in Tia's calc that Sandvoid is criticizing.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 16:52   #66
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
That you can't call someone wrong by looking at a calc he made 5 days ago, as I'm quite sure it had a different outcome then. I believe you lowered Ter Bs damage, for example, which was in Tia's calc that Sandvoid is criticizing.
Whats your point?
"There was issue a few days ago, but now it has been balanced out so its no issue"?
Im sure give if a few hours, and Tia will come up with another calc saying its still not fixed.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 17:35   #67
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Whats your point?
The point is/was that Sandvold is having critism on the thread in general and on Tia in particular based on calcs done 5 days ago.

I'm assuming that the stats have since been changed so the calc itself are not relevant anymore.

So yes, there was an issue; that issue may have been fixed and Sandvold is now looking at the old calcs after the fixing happened and commenting that the calcs show a land which contradicts what Tia posted earlier (which is obvious since the stats were updated)
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 18:29   #68
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Bram View Post
The point is/was that Sandvold is having critism on the thread in general and on Tia in particular based on calcs done 5 days ago.

I'm assuming that the stats have since been changed so the calc itself are not relevant anymore.

So yes, there was an issue; that issue may have been fixed and Sandvold is now looking at the old calcs after the fixing happened and commenting that the calcs show a land which contradicts what Tia posted earlier (which is obvious since the stats were updated)
So the stats set would shut down all the arguments tia had today?
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 21:04   #69
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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So the stats set would shut down all the arguments tia had today?
No idea, that was not what the point was.
You asked what Patrick's point - in reply to Sandvold - was, which is explained.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 21:30   #70
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

sigh ok

Tia said that your house was cold because the window was broken. A day later, you (being a professional window install person!) go to the hardware store and buy a new window and install it that night. 5 days after, Sandvoid comes along and says to Tia: "The window's not broken at all, that can't be why the house was cold! What are you talking about?"

That's not to say the house will no longer be cold, but you can't say Tia was wrong based on different data.
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Unread 26 Dec 2015, 21:32   #71
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=auexy2isjd8esut

Every fleet setup Vs xan Fr, Now someone tell me that going xan isnt the best idea in this set of stats? Only Cath Co lands and only because emp is lower on Tzen
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 03:51   #72
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=auexy2isjd8esut

Every fleet setup Vs xan Fr, Now someone tell me that going xan isnt the best idea in this set of stats? Only Cath Co lands and only because emp is lower on Tzen
Xan is according to yourself unplayable. Going xan would be very foolish.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 19:45   #73
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Well, clearly that was before to made them super strong.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 19:56   #74
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Also that calc is a Fr attack based Terran, If you flip the values of Ter Bs and Ter Fr its much harder to land that. Unless you intend on reducing Ter Bs A/C to worthless or increase fireblade D/C to god level Xan Fr will never be able to roid Ter bs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Xan, being unplayable has nothing to do with its ability to attack into Ter Bs. Xan still has to build both Fi ships, as it has no other way to cover fr or De than with fi. I admit Xan Fr has great attack options but it has the the main problem of it roids itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=auexy2isjd8esut

Every fleet setup Vs xan Fr, Now someone tell me that going xan isnt the best idea in this set of stats? Only Cath Co lands and only because emp is lower on Tzen





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Well, clearly that was before to made them super strong.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 20:03   #75
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Ive always suspected that Tiamata is just a account/nick diffrent people login to just to get away with trolling.
I suspect this because you always say something diffrent from each time you appear.
Asking you what rounds you made stats, often changes from time to time, and i have to make you look two times extra to confirm your story.
If you make a argument on something being wrong, you can then again go back at it the next day.

Exactly what was changed with xan or the stats in general wich changed xan to "unplayable" to "the only choice"?
It has nothing to do with the ability to roid into terran, as you yourself said.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 20:34   #76
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Well then i was wrong before. Xan is not unplayable in fact its the best race in the set. You have a class that prefires EVERY thing. With decent emp resists. But since your avoiding the point you already know that and you want xan to be op.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 21:46   #77
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Well then i was wrong before. Xan is not unplayable in fact its the best race in the set. You have a class that prefires EVERY thing. With decent emp resists. But since your avoiding the point you already know that and you want xan to be op.
No, you have been deliberately tryimg to derail any discussion about trying to balance sets for rounds now.
Your in fact the only one who have been saying xan is unplayable.
If you are this unsure about how to read stats, you should keep away from discussions concerning PA stats.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 21:50   #78
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
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Unread 27 Dec 2015, 23:04   #79
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
Be careful what you point out, he might report you!
He is a bloody hypocrite, that does personal attacks and when someone points out his flaws he goes all defensive.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 09:48   #80
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
You know BB you are the one that keeps attacking the person and no their criticism. Maybe you are unable to take constructive criticism well. I pointed out to you that Xan Fr is too strong, and you've made no movement or suggestions or even admission to fix it. Instead you dwell on past posts and comments instead of current ones.
No, its no attack towards your person, its how you conduct yourself.
If you have no clue what you are on about, and are likely to backtrack on what you claim to be right or wrong the next day, please refrain from posting here.

You are one of the most busy posters in here, and one of few claiming to be the expert on all matters.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 13:51   #81
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Sounds like you two are brothers.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 14:55   #82
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Sounds like you two are brothers.
No, i never admit to have wrong, its a big difference
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 20:42   #83
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

There is at least one scenario in which Tia may be correct: Xan was awful before. You made huge changes, and now Xan is amazing. Pointing out the strength of Xan at both points in time would not be a contradiction.

I have not looked at the stats. I do not know whether Tia's criticism is accurate or not. The above is a hypothetical.

However, regardless of whether that's the scenario we're in, you would be better off if you countered Tia's criticism by explaining how Xan was not awful before, or better yet, how Xan is not amazing now. That isn't (just) a moral argument. It's just pragmatism. While it may feel good to beat someone in argument by attacking them personally or denigrating their behaviour, that doesn't help improve your stats. And even if you feel your stats do not need improving, by leaving Tia's criticism without real counter, you give people a reason to turn down your stats.

Apparently this bcalc is the entirety of Tia's argument. If you truly believe Xan is not OP, you should be able to point out flaws. If you cannot do that, then I (playing the clueless newbie who doesn't really look at the stats, who just does what the big names say) have no choice but to believe Tia, even if he is literally 100% Hitler.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 20:53   #84
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Well Myz said what every adult on this forum already knew, but apparently when dealing with BB you have to use kid gloves. I welcome you to prove points rather than just make accusations. There is no fleet solo that can roid into xan, and that makes them stronger than every other race overall. There might be races that can roid very well but in tern are roided just as easy.

The last point I will make is that you've made Xan a Race of cloaked ships a viable Solo Race strat in a stat-set that is designed around team ups. Where i see if a 50 man alliance goes ALL Xan they will have HUGE ability to attack and defend given they are all CLOAKED. You made a roiding fleet that fires before all others(except emp), and they are cloaked. Tell me how this isnt going to be 50% xan round?
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 21:29   #85
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
There is at least one scenario in which Tia may be correct: Xan was awful before. You made huge changes, and now Xan is amazing. Pointing out the strength of Xan at both points in time would not be a contradiction.

I have not looked at the stats. I do not know whether Tia's criticism is accurate or not. The above is a hypothetical.

However, regardless of whether that's the scenario we're in, you would be better off if you countered Tia's criticism by explaining how Xan was not awful before, or better yet, how Xan is not amazing now. That isn't (just) a moral argument. It's just pragmatism. While it may feel good to beat someone in argument by attacking them personally or denigrating their behaviour, that doesn't help improve your stats. And even if you feel your stats do not need improving, by leaving Tia's criticism without real counter, you give people a reason to turn down your stats.

Apparently this bcalc is the entirety of Tia's argument. If you truly believe Xan is not OP, you should be able to point out flaws. If you cannot do that, then I (playing the clueless newbie who doesn't really look at the stats, who just does what the big names say) have no choice but to believe Tia, even if he is literally 100% Hitler.
The argument was that Fireblade was not cloaked(meaning faking was less of a option vs CR/BS allies), and they had to split their value "more or less" 50/50 for FI and FR, since they had no other anti FR/DE in any other classes.
Now there will be a slight "re-doing" of the roach/avenger interaction to balance BS out a little more.

Are they unplayable? Surely no, even though thats what Tia has been saying for the last weeks.
Are they overpowered? No.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8cm8ft3hi6zxqvu
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=kk2tytr8nyvjcxz
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x9zg68vezd3v38q
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=zwf9kpsb1bnfzef
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=m2ywr6j7hblaz4e
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=zhnrtrvkrwx3xdx

There is one thing yet to be fixed in the stats, and thats the cat DE + FR races interaction, and moving Avenger to init 1/2 and roaches to 2/3 would fix the "biggest" issues.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 21:40   #86
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Well Myz said what every adult on this forum already knew, but apparently when dealing with BB you have to use kid gloves. I welcome you to prove points rather than just make accusations. There is no fleet solo that can roid into xan, and that makes them stronger than every other race overall. There might be races that can roid very well but in tern are roided just as easy.

The last point I will make is that you've made Xan a Race of cloaked ships a viable Solo Race strat in a stat-set that is designed around team ups. Where i see if a 50 man alliance goes ALL Xan they will have HUGE ability to attack and defend given they are all CLOAKED. You made a roiding fleet that fires before all others(except emp), and they are cloaked. Tell me how this isnt going to be 50% xan round?
[16:39] <Tia> Fi is unplayable
[16:39] <Tia> thus xan is unplayable
[16:39] <Tia> so its a 4 man race and any calc that has xan in it thrown out
[16:39] <B-Butch3r> well people seems to think otherwise
[16:39] <Tia> because i expect with stats as they are, xan will be less than 10%
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 23:30   #87
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Why did you adjust the Ship Ratios? You've always been saying that they would be Equal, and a All FR/De based planet usually has 10-20% more value in their class than other fi/co/cr/bs attack classes.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ps01jsxh2wglrlv
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=rcxdlh0f4x9ekhq
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8n3n0nnktz0kqwa
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=xbi1susx6zczzbf
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6jx250z5jnjvk3v

So yeah it they have trouble hitting Etd, but the point is if you have a properly running BG, and 6 man All xan group and sucessfully attack into any race set up, any gal set up and be able to land most of the time. Now you take a 50 man all xan alliance going Xan Fr, where they can send 80-100 attack fleets a night and be able to roid ANYONE they want, and still be able to defend with 80+ Fleets is a bit insane.
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Unread 28 Dec 2015, 23:51   #88
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

I didnt adjust ratios, you did.

18k tzen = 16k bombers = 14k blades = 220k value
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 00:01   #89
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

P3NGUINS will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity pls keep making xan awesome. We like attacking.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 00:15   #90
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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P3NGUINS will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity pls keep making xan awesome. We like attacking.
None of your past five rounds race strats was built around xan, so i wouldnt worry about p3nguins
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 01:01   #91
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Because none of the stats gave xan pre fire on all classes like you have.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 01:08   #92
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Because none of the stats gave xan pre fire on all classes like you have.
CO prefire at FI/FR/DE
DE prefire FI
CR prefire FR/DE
BS prefire FR/DE

Once again you are wrong
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 01:33   #93
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Well there's no real way to tell anymore, since your stats got pulled from beta.

But you had all 3 xan fr at init 4 with ONLY emp being able to pre-fire them, emp that is easily flacked and faked against.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 11:55   #94
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Well there's no real way to tell anymore, since your stats got pulled from beta.

But you had all 3 xan fr at init 4 with ONLY emp being able to pre-fire them, emp that is easily flacked and faked against.
Well thats how EMP works.
And anyway, since stealers will be value gaining on steal they will win by default, im sure you said that allready too.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 13:35   #95
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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None of your past five rounds race strats was built around xan, so i wouldnt worry about p3nguins
I never mentioned past rounds.

Bitcher doing his usual crap taking everything in to his warped context.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 15:06   #96
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

You mentioned wanting to go Xan as often as possible. The fact that you haven't gone Xan the past 5 rounds therefore implies that Xan was mediocre (at best) the past 5 rounds. I don't really remember all of those stats, but that seems unlikely. It's Xan, after all.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 18:34   #97
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

Where do I mention wanting to go xan "as often as possible".

I said p3nguins will do all xan if there is a slight opportunity. Since Bitchy and Tia sway towards it being good and bad in this thread I'm happy for you to make it great.

Sad day when you have to explain posts to people because they are too busy over analysing everything mentioned. Perhaps this is why stats are being discussed for weeks on end by people who apparently see themselves as "stats makers" yet we always seem to end up with a pile of shit no one wants to play. My suggestion would be to take a step back and stop trying to be awesome because it inevitably is resulting in fail hard stats each round.
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Unread 29 Dec 2015, 22:01   #98
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

I always go Xan, so please make them awesome. I need all the help I can get.
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Unread 30 Dec 2015, 09:32   #99
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

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Where do I mention wanting to go xan "as often as possible".
Ah, right, you didn't actually say that. However, it's a reasonable extrapolation from what you did say, namely wanting to go Xan if you had a slight opportunity, which I took to mean "when Xan is at least OK". I reasoned that an alliance that wants to go Xan this round would prefer going Xan in other rounds as well. What's special about this particular round that's making you want to go Xan extra-much?
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Unread 30 Dec 2015, 11:37   #100
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Re: BB stats r65(again)

You do know he is trolling mz?
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