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Unread 9 Jul 2013, 12:18   #1
Appocomaster
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Round 53: Government Changes

In Round 53, there are a few changes aimed at the government area of Planetarion. As it's still not completely set in stone, there are a few details that can still be changed, depending on the reaction.

There is a new, non-selectable government called "Anarchy". Its "bonuses" are as follows:

Mining output: 25% lower
Research: 25% slower
Construction: 25% slower
Production time: 20% slower
Alert: 15% lower

Resetting/changing Government
If a planet wishes to change their government, they can place their planet in "Anarchy" for 72 ticks. At the end of this 72 ticks, they can select a new government.

This is quite a negative government but, comparatively, it's probably still worth taking democracy and then at some point around tick 400-500 changing to corporatism - it may be worth changing all the governments to be a little less powerful, to make this a slightly less clearcut choice.

Forgetting to set a government
We're sticking with the 168 tick limit, though there is now a mail reminder with 24 ticks left to remind you to set your government.
When you create your planet or when you come out of "anarchy", you have 168 ticks to set a government. If this period passes, you will have to "reset" your government again, with the 3 days of anarchy, before you can select a government again.

Covert Op
There is also a new covert op, which is added after structure destroying. It is called "Government Subversion". It converts the government of the target planet to "Anarchy" for agents/5 ticks; a minimum of 20 agents is required to complete this mission.

20 agents means that a planet with an alertness of 92 is immune to all government covert ops (worst case), and this applies to zik/etd planets

So to be immune (and to be immune 50% of the time, we'd drop these numbers by 10), we have a table of:

Code:
Race	"On its own"  "+10% gov"  "+5 success bonus"  "+10% and +5 success"
Ter              70          76                  75                     81
Cath             75	     82                  80                     87
Xan              70	     76                  75                     81
Zik              80          87                  85                     92
Etd              80	     87                  85                     92
Which is quite reasonable. It will obviously make covert op immunity more important, but if you play the odds, it could be a lot worse.


All of these changes (and the corresponding history / stats changes) are on the beta server
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Last edited by Appocomaster; 6 Sep 2013 at 14:52. Reason: updating anarchy stats
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Unread 9 Jul 2013, 12:34   #2
Reincarnate
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

looks very interesting.

i would like to see something similar on population as well. maybe only able to change pop every 12 ticks.

plus, a scan that reveals current gov/pop.
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Unread 9 Jul 2013, 13:52   #3
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
In Round 53, there are a few changes aimed at the government area of Planetarion. As it's still not completely set in stone, there are a few details that can still be changed, depending on the reaction.

There is a new, non-selectable government called "Anarchy". Its "bonuses" are as follows:

Mining output: 10% lower
Research: 15% slower
Construction: 15% slower
Production time: 20% slower
Alert: 20% lower

Resetting/changing Government
If a planet wishes to change their government, they can place their planet in "Anarchy" for 72 ticks. At the end of this 72 ticks, they can select a new government.
I don't like the ability to change governments, as it removes a strategic choice: do I go Demo to get started quicker, Tot to take advantage of crashing and stealing, or Corp for late game value play? If you can change your government, then there is no real choice: everyone will go Demo in the early round, and then Corp or Tot in the late round. PA has been narrowing its range of choice for a long time now, and this change will narrow it further.

If you're dead set on this, the drawbacks of Anarchy are laughable. Double them. Also add news entries whenever your government changes, both when you enter and exit Anarchy. I would also suggest changing its name to Chaos, though that's really a minor nitpick. The duration is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Forgetting to set a government
We're sticking with the 168 tick limit, though there is now a mail reminder with 24 ticks left to remind you to set your government.
When you create your planet or when you come out of "anarchy", you have 168 ticks to set a government. If this period passes, you will have to "reset" your government again, with the 3 days of anarchy, before you can select a government again.
I've never understood why you insist on making people choose a government in the first 168 ticks. There is no strategy that benefits from delaying a government choice until the late round. None.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Covert Op
There is also a new covert op, which is added after structure destroying. It is called "Government Subversion". It converts the government of the target planet to "Anarchy" for agents/5 ticks; a minimum of 20 agents is required to complete this mission.

(...)

It will obviously make covert op immunity more important, but if you play the odds, it could be a lot worse.
I like this. While you're touching cov ops anyway, change bankhacking, from maximum of 10k per agent to 8k. It's currently way too powerful. 8k is probably still too high, but let's err on the side of caution (for once ).
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 9 Jul 2013 at 15:48. Reason: typoes
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Unread 9 Jul 2013, 14:24   #4
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

good points from mz. i think, to make it slightly more strategic, do what appoco said of nerf current gov and what mz said of increase anarchy "punishment".
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Unread 9 Jul 2013, 15:09   #5
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

This really needs some tweaking there is no other way than starting with demo and going into corp now.
Make it alert 50% lower and put it on the feed -> x:x:x have gone into anarchy. (and some way to see it in galbrowser could be cool aswell)
And set all population to 0% (population is out of control while under anarchy)(or have population randomly change every 6/12 ticks or smth if 0% is to drastic for you)


And the 168 tick rule is even more stupid now, I cant imagine anyone that actually plays the game supports the rule. Only thing its good for is punishing thoose who dont realize there is a goverment to set.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 08:15   #6
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Oh. That new cov op is totally overpowered. Minus 20% alert is terrible. If you get hit once, you're totally screwed. I stand by my suggestion to double all the penalties, but you should really remove the alert reduction.

(P.S. Golan thought of this, not me.)
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 16:21   #7
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
And the 168 tick rule is even more stupid now, I cant imagine anyone that actually plays the game supports the rule. Only thing its good for is punishing thoose who dont realize there is a goverment to set.
I like this rule and use it to my advantage every round. Best way to use corp is to not set a government at the beginning, get the base research done, then form your government.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 16:22   #8
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Quote:
I don't like the ability to change governments, as it removes a strategic choice: do I go Demo to get started quicker, Tot to take advantage of crashing and stealing, or Corp for late game value play? If you can change your government, then there is no real choice: everyone will go Demo in the early round, and then Corp or Tot in the late round. PA has been narrowing its range of choice for a long time now, and this change will narrow it further.

If you're dead set on this, the drawbacks of Anarchy are laughable. Double them. Also add news entries whenever your government changes, both when you enter and exit Anarchy. I would also suggest changing its name to Chaos, though that's really a minor nitpick. The duration is fine.
Fully agreed. It's "unfair" you could say. Just set a government for the round and don't let it change.
Anarchy is seems fit if this goes ahead either way.

Quote:
I've never understood why you insist on making people choose a government in the first 168 ticks. There is no strategy that benefits from delaying a government choice until the late round. None.
You're not the only one. He never explained it to us.

Quote:
I like this. While you're touching cov ops anyway, change bankhacking, from maximum of 10k per agent to 8k. It's currently way too powerful. 8k is probably still too high, but let's err on the side of caution (for once ).
In my opinion, Cov ops should have more impact and not the opposite. 10k is low, and changing it to 8k would make people stop playing.

The duration of this new cov op (5 ticks) is way too low though. It doesn't compensate for the research that has to be done.
I'd say 25 agents/8-10 ticks (random or based on something).

Also and while you're at it Appoco, maybe increase the XP for each op I'd say.

And raise the wages on Security Guards/Agents. They're way too cheap.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 16:23   #9
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Isnt it better to get 40% research from demo first then swap to corp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
I like this rule and use it to my advantage every round. Best way to use corp is to not set a government at the beginning, get the base research done, then form your government.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 16:26   #10
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Oh. That new cov op is totally overpowered. Minus 20% alert is terrible. If you get hit once, you're totally screwed. I stand by my suggestion to double all the penalties, but you should really remove the alert reduction.

(P.S. Golan thought of this, not me.)
I disagree here. I think this will give a really cool dynamic to the game. If you have an enemy who happens to be a good covopper or knows a good covopper, get ready to have to pay for it (guards wise)! You have 3 choices: You are nice to everyone and hope no one has a vendetta against you at some point, you are nice or a dick and commit the resources early and prevent something like this from happening, or risk it all being a dick and then have to pay a LOT of resources to have it stop once someone has targeted you. You will always be able to hire enough guards to eventually be able to overcome the alert reduction, you just may have to dedicate your income to hiring guards only for a while. I actually really really like this idea the more I think about it. Covop as it currently stands has not been able to really influence the game much, just annoy and be useful for determining if fleets are fake from time to time. This addition, albeit small, will at least give covop a new edge that, if employed properly, could be very effective and add a new dyamic to the game.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 17:51   #11
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruntxas View Post
In my opinion, Cov ops should have more impact and not the opposite. 10k is low, and changing it to 8k would make people stop playing.
No. I played as a cov opper this round. Added up my score (2.65m) and the amount of resources I've donated into the galfund (405m and counting) makes 6.7m. That's a top 20 planet worth. If those resources had been used by someone who went Totitarian, that would make 7m in total. That's a top10 planet worth. I haven't launched an attack all round. Bankhacking is hilariously overpowered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruntxas View Post
The duration of this new cov op (5 ticks) is way too low though. It doesn't compensate for the research that has to be done.
For a cov opper, research barely matters. I went scanner first and I still had bank hacking at tick 128. I switched to core mining research after that, but if I hadn't, I could've had this new cov op by tick 183. By tick 240, I had run out of interesting things to research and started on useless stuff.

As for the op's strength, as Cat, you can do this cov op every 2 ticks, with 35 agents, permanently crippling 3.5 planets.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 18:41   #12
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Isnt it better to get 40% research from demo first then swap to corp?
Sure once that is possible, but it depends on how much the penalty for anarchy ends up being, and what the relative strengths and weaknesses of corp/demo end up being. It is possible that the best strategy is still to have no government early and then choose one later.
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Unread 10 Jul 2013, 18:42   #13
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Isnt it better to get 40% research from demo first then swap to corp?
you cannot change gov once it's set.
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Unread 11 Jul 2013, 12:55   #14
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
you cannot change gov once it's set.
maybe you should actually read this thread..

Go corp to stack up as much resources as possible, then go tot when you need to spend it
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Unread 11 Jul 2013, 13:20   #15
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
maybe you should actually read this thread..

Go corp to stack up as much resources as possible, then go tot when you need to spend it
i did read it. the post was relating to how monroe currently uses gov.

maybe YOU should actually read this thread...
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Unread 12 Jul 2013, 10:31   #16
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

From the Game Manual....

Quote:
Please note that your decision needs to be made properly because you can only set your Government once each round, just like your race. You will not get a chance to change your Government nor will the Game Administration change it upon request. You stick with your choice.
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Unread 13 Jul 2013, 14:12   #17
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

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i did read it. the post was relating to how monroe currently uses gov.

maybe YOU should actually read this thread...
I did, Monroe is talking about not setting a corp government under the current system until later in the round.
Then people are talking about starting demo and going corp later as a new tactic.
But I guess that's too hard to understand for you?
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Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
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Unread 23 Jul 2013, 14:06   #18
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

I think this idea should be split in 2.
- Anarchy as it is proposed to change government should lower everything by 50%
- Government disruption as a Cov Op should just cancel the current benefits of a gov (except for Anarchy ofc).
That cov op on a Anarchy government would make it last for x ticks longer...
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Unread 23 Jul 2013, 17:52   #19
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Monroe we tried the non setting gov thing a few rounds back. Couple of us didn't set till tick 168 and dybi when corp from tick start. All were xan, we came out about equal so I wouldn't do it again.

As someone said you can hoard with corp and spend with tot, that gives you a big advantage. The mining loss of anarchy is not massive if you can still have 25% mining pop on.

I don't like the idea of the extra covop as was also said an annoying covoper could cripple a xan quite easily.
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Unread 24 Jul 2013, 04:47   #20
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

then make anarchy remove pop bonus' aswell
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Unread 26 Jul 2013, 06:39   #21
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

Just thinking shouldn't this ability to gov change and the final covop be made available only to upgraded accounts??

There has been a lot of talk about revenue in other threads and I'm just thinking the ability to change your government is a perk that would probably make more people upgrade.

Long term and IF the game ever integrates into FB and has the ability to use upgrades then changing your government could cost 69p (common cost for EVERYTHING online) to do instantly.
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Unread 1 Aug 2013, 23:30   #22
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

just as a note, I replaced some of the message notifications with news notifications as suggested. governments definitely won't be final tomorrow night, need some time to review them this weekend. fairly sure they won't stay the same.
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Unread 1 Aug 2013, 23:31   #23
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Re: Round 53: Government Changes

and yes yes I should have looked at this earlier but work and social life (and not sure when this round was going to start) yada yada.
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