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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 05:53   #51
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Re: R46 Stats

The current stats favour fi way too much. Luckily there are several ways to even out some of the inequalities. I know they have been announced as more or less final, but I urge you to reconsider. I would suggest to do the following:
Locust: change targeting to FiCo and adjust efficiency sensibly.
Beetle: change targeting to CoFiDe.
Guardian: change targeting to CoFi and adjust efficiency sensibly.
Ghost: remove t3.
New ship: Xan Fr targeting only Bs at init 7.
Wraith: change from init 9 to init 8 and possibly tone down efficiency slightly.
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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 06:22   #52
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Re: R46 Stats

I can get behind the Locust change, ghost/new xan fr change. But as for guardian/beetle/wraith. I say leave them as is. The changes to locust already are going to make cat co stupid good because of what targets co. It makes them t1 every ship that can actually hurt them. Your left with the Vindicator at T2 which is good enough.

As for the Xan changes we dont need Xan to be better people will play xan even if they suck. The goodness about xan is cloak and there ability to fake. They have targets for all of there fleets thats all they need.

The other changes that I would make would be find a way to kill Fr with ally def w/o using enforcers. Trick question there isnt any. Number of ships that T1 Fr 5!!!! 2 of which are Emp 2, 2 of which are Bs and 1 of which fire before all of them.


Targeting Break down:
Class T1 T2 T3 Total Targeting
Fi____ 7_4_0____ 11
Co___ 5_6_1____ 12
Fr____ 5_6_2____ 13
De____ 6_6_3____ 15
Cr____ 6_4_1____ 11
Bs____ 6_3_2____ 11


Just to show people the Distribution. So by these stats Fi/cr/bs are the least targeted with Co/Fr being the Least T1'd Classes. Meanwhile De is targeted 15 times on 15 different ships, out of 35 total combat ships(not counting pods or sk or res)

I'd Love to seep a bit more balancing with the targetings. Especially on the T1's
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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 06:57   #53
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Re: R46 Stats

Personally i think there is too much useless ships(like the weaver), and a bit much overlap between certain ships (the ghost and rogue for instance). And because of this teamups are too important if you ask me.



These stats seem to have been build around the idea that for every attackship there has to be a def ship firing before it again. IMHO that makes for another set of fairly defensive stats, on top of some really viable defensive strats galwise.
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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 20:10   #54
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Re: R46 Stats

I agree these stats are very defensive. Personally id rather see offensive stats. But we can't get someone to make them. Rounds like this past round were very boring. I apologise for last round that was partly my fault, but not entirely.
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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 21:58   #55
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Re: R46 Stats

defensive? if anything they are offensive because you cant cover everything effectively with 3 ships - these are ok stats and shoudl make for an intresting round... there is no stand out setup and it will be intresting to see how it goes.

Im glad galleon got nerfed
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Unread 18 Mar 2012, 23:47   #56
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Re: R46 Stats

Umm Kaiba these stats are even more defensive then mine where. With the lower eta's have the better init's it makes them purely defensive.

Aside from emp hardly nothing can land solo because of the way the init's are set up.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 01:59   #57
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Re: R46 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
defensive? if anything they are offensive because you cant cover everything effectively with 3 ships - these are ok stats and shoudl make for an intresting round... there is no stand out setup and it will be intresting to see how it goes.
Ghost/Shadow/Razor, Gryphon/Peg (2 ships!, same class!), Rouge/Enforcer (2 ships!)

Three races can cover everything with only 2 or 3 ships, these stats are very defensive again. Woe to the alliances that let any other get a significant lead, the round will be over just like last round.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 02:12   #58
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Re: R46 Stats

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Ghost/Shadow/Razor, Gryphon/Peg (2 ships!, same class!), Rouge/Enforcer (2 ships!)

Three races can cover everything with only 2 or 3 ships, these stats are very defensive again. Woe to the alliances that let any other get a significant lead, the round will be over just like last round.

1. The Ghost does not cover BS and the Scarab owns the Razor all ends up.

2. Yes Peg is good but not an alliance ship... the Gryphon is not that great vs. itself and CR.

3. Yet again the Rogue is awful against BS and the Enforcer has been nerfed so many times in beta its crap against both CO and DE now!!


In all the viable ALLIANCE setups you need a minimum of 4 ship if not 5 to be a teamplayer and useful to your alliance, that is more spread than most rounds we have had recently.

The only alliance that will go Terran DE will be DLR cos of the fort setup but still they will struggle against FR/DE/CR.


As i said before alliances will play a big part in attack stagnation not the stats. With Tias last round they werent insanely defensive but the fact the universe went 50% fi/co and 50% cr/bs meant that they counter each other and teh attacks stagnated.

From what is going around this round 3 top alliances are all playing different strategies ( i know there only rumours but were hearing Ult is fi/Co, FaNG is fr/de and CT is cr/bs) that means there will holes in them trying to counter each other becauise these stats DO NOT allow you to properly cover all the class in 3 ships!

Please build your 2 ship Xan and Zik setups and watch the BS alliances roll you over all round long .. please!
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Last edited by Kaiba; 19 Mar 2012 at 02:20.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 02:24   #59
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Re: R46 Stats

From looking at stats if your playing Zik or Xan FR you need atleast 4 ships to cover sufficently...

Corsair, Enforcer, Theif and Buccaneer for Zik

Banshee,Razor, Shadow and Wraith for Xan - yes i know Xan Fr with 1 FR ship - but thats the best setup for each race.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 02:25   #60
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Re: R46 Stats

Kaiba Because of the way the stats are set up Fi/co will be so heavily favored because of the init adv's over most of the fr/de.

Ter
Interceptor/Thor/Dreadlord
Cat
Locust/Tara/BlackWidow
Xan
Wraith/Bomber/ Either banshee/razor
Zik
corsair/enforcer/pirate(bucc)
Etd
vindi/tycoon/tempest

The only races that cant EASILY do 3 ships are cat/xan. Because there fi/co have 4 targets split over 3 ships or in caths case T3


So I don't see how 3 ship builds wont be viable. Zik has great ships this round as does Etd.

Also Kiaba why would someone build more than 3 ships? Its just a waste of value at that point. Your not flacking anything and if a race needs to build 4 ships then just don't play it(xan Fi).
[Edit]

Also in Fr/De builds you need 3 ships.
Ter: peg/gry/nix
cat:weaver/scara/cobra
xan:ghost/shadow/razor
zik:thief/bucc/enforcer
etd:guard/jugg/tyc

Easy as can be.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 03:13   #61
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Re: R46 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Please build your 2 ship Xan and Zik setups and watch the BS alliances roll you over all round long .. please!
Terran BS is easily stopped by Gryph, and etd BS is stopped by all FR defense (bucs work great). I don't see solo BS fleets as viable this round, teamups are needed, which by definition makes it a defensive round. Sure you can come up with 100 reason why a particular fleet strategy can be beat, but the simple fact of the matter is attacking solo with these stats is difficult, ergo teamups will be needed, ergo another defensive round... without the balance that we had last round.
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Last edited by Monroe; 19 Mar 2012 at 16:38. Reason: Typo
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 03:15   #62
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Re: R46 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Kaiba Because of the way the stats are set up Fi/co will be so heavily favored because of the init adv's over most of the fr/de.
Defensively FI/CO will be great (another argument for a defensive round) offensively none of the FI/CO options are really viable, and easily defeated by other FI/CO defense fleets. The best attack fleet in the round is cath CR (they freeze everything that targets them), otherwise every other attack fleet has problems (yet another argument for a defensive round).
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 04:22   #63
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Re: R46 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
2. Yes Peg is good but not an alliance ship... the Gryphon is not that great vs. itself and CR

The only alliance that will go Terran DE will be DLR cos of the fort setup but still they will struggle against FR/DE/CR.
I agree that the gryphon isn't great vs CR, but running calcs i am quite convinced it is enough to counter the CR that will be out there, as CR is too ineffective to be the bases of an alliance setup. Gryphon vs Gryphon isn't good, but good enough to stop almost any attack with 1 fleet.
Ter DE's biggest problem is they are shit attackers and basicly only able to attack caths. Also, struggle against FR? have you even ran a single calc on them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
In all the viable ALLIANCE setups you need a minimum of 4 ship if not 5 to be a teamplayer and useful to your alliance, that is more spread than most rounds we have had recently.
I agree that alliance-wise Ter DE isn't the best setup, but ult last round had a different setup for their forts and their support players. I think one can imagine this happening again.
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Unread 19 Mar 2012, 13:09   #64
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Re: R46 Stats

The biggest issue with Ter De is that it's not fun to play, and it's not fun to play against, whether it's effective or not.

I think there's too much focus on balance, and not enough on fun and interesting gameplay/options.
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Unread 21 Mar 2012, 10:50   #65
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Re: R46 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
From looking at stats if your playing Zik or Xan FR you need atleast 4 ships to cover sufficently...

Corsair, Enforcer, Theif and Buccaneer for Zik

Banshee,Razor, Shadow and Wraith for Xan - yes i know Xan Fr with 1 FR ship - but thats the best setup for each race.
Corsair AND Thief? what a waste of value....2 ships that target the same...actualy makes your fleet less viable vs fi/co as they don't have to concentrate their firepower on one class...
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Unread 22 Mar 2012, 17:30   #66
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Re: R46 Stats

Honestly the more I look at these stats the more defensive they appear to me. Team ups are going to be needed basically all round on any target that isn't a newbie. Yes each fleet has at least one race it can target, but given how strong the defense options are against any give attack fleet it's going to be brutal to land once players start to have significant value.
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Unread 22 Mar 2012, 17:35   #67
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Re: R46 Stats

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honestly the more i look at these stats the more defensive they appear to me. Team ups are going to be needed basically all round on any target that isn't a newbie. Yes each fleet has at least one race it can target, but given how strong the defense options are against any give attack fleet it's going to be brutal to land once players start to have significant value.
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Unread 22 Mar 2012, 18:11   #68
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Re: R46 Stats

And one more point, all of the attack strategies to cover the defense options require EMP to be effective. This means every attack combo can be beaten simply by flacking EMP. Ugly.
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Unread 27 Mar 2012, 07:38   #69
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Re: R46 Stats

Jeez what a bunch of shit stats, a shame cardi had me sign up before i looked at them.

No race can really attack alone, huge teamups are needed from almost t50.

Let's look at it race by race.

Ter, roiding fleets DE and BS -> able to roid cath sort of, and what the **** is wrong with DE having free kill at Ter BS... LOL.

I don't really see any other options mid to late game, unless you wanna trash value, if we include chicken all round long we can add, Xan + Zik.

Cath, roiding fleets CO and CR -> CO cant even roid xans WTF??? But they can roid Etd, CR maybe FI heavy xan's and Etd.

Xan can roid most if just enough numbers, so 3-4 man teamups early on will work fine, later we are gonna see larger teamups than this.

Zik, kinda good if getting the right steals, if not they can roid cath's and etd's - not really impressive but best options overall imo.

Etd CO utterly useless alone, DE can only roid cath LOL, BS ters depending on fleet combo.

This shows we need large teamups, and even in large teamups it's gonna get really messy.

WTF its wrong cath having free shoots at Etd BS/CO, Zik BS/FI.
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Unread 27 Mar 2012, 12:23   #70
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Re: R46 Stats

It is another round of defensive stats and im bored to tears of it. we need to make the game more fun/interesting not increasingly more boring. make stats so it possible to solo roid. having to make massive team ups to land all round gets irritating
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Unread 27 Mar 2012, 13:17   #71
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Re: R46 Stats

let's please all agree that for the next MT rounds we make attackfleets that fire before their defenders (except for maybe EMP ships, but they have the disadvantage of having to stun the entire attackfleet), with defships having a slightly higher effeciency. No annoying free-fire defships anymore.
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Unread 27 Mar 2012, 17:04   #72
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Re: R46 Stats

It's four days in and I'm bored \o(
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Unread 27 Mar 2012, 21:17   #73
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Re: R46 Stats

It's very sad...
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