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Originally Posted by Tietäjä

The thing is, this isn't the first time people suggest "supership" design to be added to the combat engine (mind you, combat engine changes require more than just adding a shipclass, if you'd compare PA engine to PAX engine, which abolished and revamped targeting and mission concepts at large).

I never used the word 'Supership' - others did. I suggested a 'Flagship' and a marine carrier. I suggested an open ended idea of what they might do. I even extended the idea so it worked outside of the combat engine (ie, a simple alliance level, FOR EXAMPLE.)

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

No. There are useless ships like harpy, that are useless against zikonian frigates, but useful against xandathrii frigates. Then there's been ships that were just plain useless, having no real function beyond filling up the zone.

I have no idea why you are really attempting to wriggle. Are you claiming that my Thief are not superships? Because right now, any sane Terran will tell you they equate exactly to super unstoppable ships. You've sat in thread and bitched about how class a would do terribly badly against class b in a set of circumstances, and how superships are bad, while pretending for who cares what reason that, this situation is something that does not occur. The game has superships by race, and you keep telling me in thread superships are bad. Seriously, get a clue.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Here's one thread. It's regarding "death star" type of ships (essentially "flagships") that are limited by construction but provide some powerful benefit (10% enemy ships stolen, anyone, +10% attacker damage, anyone?). Here's another one about stealing resources with ships. Feel free to surf the forums more for suggestions on huge ships that bring different benefits, it's in the FAF -thread too. I suggest you check the numerous "let's introduce new ship/orbital facility/planetary defence bump" threads amongst the years for more insight into the subject. There's been ideas about mashing structures, giving bonuses to damages, stealing resources, stealing researches, and so on around earlier, too.

I am glad people posted those ideas. You see, here is the thing. Its an ideas thread. Not a thread to attack ideas, not a thread to limit or close discussion.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

The thing with the combat engine is, that at the moment there's no new chassis design being done. I reckon during the whole PAX period it's been fighter, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battleship. The problem comes adding to this. Adding two new ship types outside the existing classes (to say, Flagship class, and Marine carrier class) is possible, but it makes things quite a bit more complex without really bringing in too much, as mentioned on one of the earlier threads involving the subject.

OK, you keep on throwing this at me. Do you run, maintain and look after the combat engine for PAteam? If the answer is yes, ok, I'll stop posting and we can forget the idea. If the answer is no, go away, and stop quoting 'current combat engine' at me. Changes to the combat engine big or small with an idea like this are a given. OK. Understand?

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

To make a few more questions about the idea itself. You mention the marine carriers don't need to exist in already existing shipclasses, like flagships wouldn't exist. What else would marine carriers do, than steal flagships (at one point you mentioned targetting skillers, apods, and such - is this role still valid, or changed by now?)

The original premise was basic. New ships, flagships, marine carriers. Flagships do something new. Players have marine carriers as the in game counter. Could you extend the ships to do other things, yes you could, and I would not mind if you could. I also don't mind if you don't.

But even, as I have done in this thread, if you offer simple things:-

simplify the idea due to whining.
Flagships when raiding give you 5% extra roid cap, 5% more kills (or simple stuff put up for simple discussion)

I'd still have people come in thread and say:-
Superships by design are bad (even tough the game is riddled with superships)
The current combat engine can't do this - go away.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

, and if they would, would they do it after everyone else or at some point in between? Also, how would you then destroy a marine carrier (except with another marine carrier possibly?)?

Marine carriers would be wasted unless you need them. However, if you want to add a third new class feel free.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Would there be a "conventional" class to shoot down marine carriers? (This again can bring some difficulties with the statistics - making a plausible set of ship statistics isn't as easy as it sounds, and there's always the risk of something going fubar).

Well, you've attacked me for suggesting the ships, wether we use conventional method (ie ship stats), or a new method. If the conventional class fought with marine class, and you twisted this like every other class in the game is twisted, at least you'd be consistent. Maybe herein, you actually have added something for the first time. An observation that its actually 3 classes, new ones, that *maybe* don't mess with the rest of the combat engine, flagships, marine carriers, and heavy destroyers (example, blurb would be, guns upgraded to deal with marine carrier armour, or whatever). In both cases, both have a limited use.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

If marine carriers are of their own class, and only target flagships, but are hit by conventional shipclasses, doesn't it get very hard to get any of these in alive, given that regular ships would (as you suggest, with the dead pods incident) shoot first?

Well, should you be easily able to walk in and just take someone's flagship?
(I'd say no..), so the fact you might face problems mounting such a raid is different from how people have to plan missions now how?

In making or building a flagship, do we want to create a 'Supership'.
No. But it would be fun if the Flagship did something. If it does *nothing*, there is no point. I suggested a couple of tangents, one being maybe its a ship for alliances to have, the first HC getting it. Or based on race and adding an attack or defence modifyer.

There has to be a counter to flagships. If not marine carriers, then could it be something else.

If you steal/cap a flagship, can you gain a benefit worthwhile taking the risk.

Even if you took this to its simplest degree, and treated a flagship at the first HC of any alliance, treating it like a special 'roid', capping it wins your alliance 1 million extra score, a completed tech or construction for its members, it_would_add something to the game.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Merely adding "two ships that do something, one to counter the other and one to do something" is a bit vague. Can you specify how the idea is going at the moment, so I can actually write off on where the idea might fail? (As you see, this is an ideas forum, and the point is to discuss new ideas, which evidently involves critisizing them).

Superships - No
Does not work with current combat engine - no
Terrans wrecked RD 21 - no
Beta testing ideas sucks - no

- Is not criticism, its just blanking people posting ideas.