[Nusselt]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

What the **** has Stalin got to do with the Normandy landings?

Since the thread specifically mentioned it (id missed it beforehand) ill accept not a lot. The thread was going along the lines of western liberal demoracy being preferable to nazism, something id agree with. I only wanted to point out that western liberal demoracy chose to side with the lesser of two evils at a certain point in history, because it suited them, and to ignore the implications that would have, because it suited them. I was trying to introduce a shade of grey to honouring a moral situation seemingly given as black and white.

But as you've pointed out it has nothing to do with the normandy landings, the thread was specifically about them and i seem to have missed skiddy's second post. Therefore although it severely limits the thread, you are right.

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

If you are not making a moral judgement about history, (Which you are not.) then there is no point in paying any attention to history. History should be about learning from error and achievement so we can better ourselves from that knowledge, and celebrating where applicable, and condemning where appropriate, and remembering in both cases. Moral judgement is at the very centre of this.

Thats very unfair, you've taken one specific part of one sentence of my post and quoted it completely out of context. In the preceeding sentence and in prior posts id stated that Britain had a moral superiority over the Nazis. But i didn't and don't see the point in picking it as a moment to be celebrated.

I accept Britain's history good and bad as it occured. I make moral judgements on the entire 2000+ years of it and choose to learn from it. I simply don't see the point in picking the one moment when the moral superiority was clear, and holding it for all time. Just as i don't see the point in picking one moment when britain was in the wrong, and holding it up for all time.

In either case, and to reiterate once again

Originally Posted by Nusselt

That doesn't mean i ignore what happened, but i believe i am more consistant with my treatment of all those times than people who pick and choose history as it suits them. It is not a case of having no moral opinions, it is in fact the very opposite.

I have never and will never say that lessons and moral arguments from history should not be made, i do query the logic in holding one moment up (good or bad) as an eternal example and saying remember.

In anycase assuming people learn from their mistakes, it would make far more sense to me to actively remember the times when britain was wrong.

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Why you make this idiotic artifical dichotomy between scientific achievement on the one hand and political achievement on the other is quite beyond me.

I have?

I make a dichotomy between the achievements of man in terms of ideas and the achivements of man in terms of battles. I do so unashamedly.