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Shhhhhhh · 22 Jul 2014, 18:52

With current 'first draft' in Beta: ( no bcalcing, waiting with that untill stats are final

) But targetting, Init and A/C D/C should give a good general idea.

Terran FR , probably with War Cruiser for anti FR since CR as anti FR is nicer because of targetting. Seems good for self defense, bad vs Xan Fi , so overal difficult to attack with. No real use for adding in teamup FR : Average.

Terran BS: Difficult to make a fleet that targets everything. I guess add Centaur and Chimera. Also means you can fake your FR as BS fleet.
BS attack fleet is quite strong vs FR/DE defense. Tempting for attack, but overal terrible for ally def. Wanted for team up with ETD BS. : Average

Cath CO: Add Tarantula for anti BS/CR , 3 ships to target everything. Good for attack with great efficiency, but vulnerable to some BW freezing your CO before they even get to emp themselves. Overal very good in attacking, and all ships useful for ally defense. Wanted for team up with ETD CO: Very strong.

Cath DE: Not sure what to get for anti DE. No cath ships with T1 DE, so probably Viper since they can make the ETA. 4 ships to target everything.
Great for attacking with their high efficiency ships. Hardly any T1 DE ships, so even if you don't fully EMP, losses wont be that big. Good self defense vs Co fleets with better Init. Very Strong ( slightly better than Cath Co strenght wise, but not possible to ally def with all ships)

Cath CR: Beetle and Scorpion added to target everything. Stealing into your CR fleet would be awesome, but there arent that many fun CR ships to steal. Since the Zik CR has init advantage over it, a battle vs it wont be pretty. Only useful if the attacking CR has low anti BS in the fleet. Attack wise the CR fleet looks ok, however with so many possible FR/DE fleets landing might still be tough. Efficiency on the Mantis is great tho vs CR, so can't expect much more. Cath CR very wanted for teamups with Zik CR. Strong

Xan Fi: Add Tzen for anti Fi and Shadow for anti CR/BS. Since Shadow as DE gets hit T2 mostly. Xan Fi in attack very vulnerable vs a bit of Tzen for suicide defense. In ally defense beetles and defenders have great efficiency vs it. Together with a bit of steal, it wont be that hard to cover. Xan Fi also vulnerable against EMP attackers, but good for ally def vs non emp attack ( besides Xan FR) No real teamup options or wanted for teamups, maybe if Zik builds daggers, and steals Xan fi, but thats kinda stretching. Below average

Xan FR: Pulsar for anti FR, ally defense, tho crappy vs Xan FR, but can at least make eta. Xan FR has init advantage vs any kill ships that can make the ally def eta. So good in attack and good in self defense, only weak vs CR/BS in both attack and defense. Cloak advantage very useful with your FR fleet since it targets 5 out of 6 classes. Strong

Xan BS: Peacekeeper great for anti CR, but besides that, bad init of the Broadsword and only targetting 3 ships with your attack fleet just seems bad overal. Dont see why you'd wanna play it. Weak

Zik anything:: Stealing ships in attack classes makes it kinda messy, Overal can't really land anything solo, but it's 'normal' Zik stuff. There should at least be lots of EMP ships to team up with. And adding the zik ships to defensive battles does help a lot. Average

ETD CO: Ghost for anti CR/BS. With Ghost being an awesome ally def ship.
The Co fleet needs teamup with Cath Co for the freezing of FR/DE. 3 ships to target all classes, with great EMP efficiency on the defender. Not that great for solo attacking, but team up of Cath/Zik/ETD seems very strong. Out of those 3, ETD CO seems best in self defense. Strong

ETD FR: Nice Cloak fleet, add Smuggler to anti FR/DE, stealing FR for your attack fleet. Missing anti DE in your attack fleet, but you don't want to attack on your own anyway with bad init of Lancers. Teaming up with cloaked Xan FR seems the obvious choice. Makes for a mean ( fake ) attack fleet. Very vulnerable in defense vs FR/DE. Average

ETD DE: with Smuggler? for anti DE. given the overal strenght of CO, it seems like there will be a lot of it around, so it makes sense to get smugglers for ally def, they wont do much solo but with other co they do help. The DE attack fleet can team up with Cath DE to add killing power, but that's more taking advantage of the strenght of Cath DE. Devastator seems good , doesnt get hit much by BS/CR at T1. Average

ETD BS: Devastator and Defender to target everything. The good Predator Init is a bit wasted since its only EMP and Steal CR that hits BS. Avenger has great efficiency vs FR and still decent vs DE. They will be wanted for teamup with Terran BS. Since both have T2 DE, it might even be useful to add Xan BS on a BS team up for Broadswords with their T1 DE and good dmg.
Overal decent attack fleet, but bad in ally defense and self defense. Average

Changes:
I'd propose switching some T1 and T2 around.
Pegasus hitting Fi/Co same as Black Widow isn't that useful. Switching it around would help increase the strenght of the ETD DE and make them more useful for teaming up with Cath DE. Also lowers the strenght of Co attack fleets a bit. So ingal/PL DE can stop them easier.
Maybe Avenger to T1 DE and T2 FR so it's more wanted and useful with Terran BS.
Beetle to T1 CO and T2 FI ( or defender depending on if Peg changes to T1 CO)
But I guess all the EMP targetting FI/CO and none Co/Fi is because it's a pain/impossible to get efficiencies right otherwise.

Besides that, Xan FI seems to have too many weaknesses and not enough strenghts. I'd increase their E/R a bit. Tzen murdering them and the normal EMP/Steal stopping them seems fine already. No need to make the EMP Co this great at stopping them.

Oh and I'd just give the Zik a CO Pod. so they can join teamups with Co attack right from the start and dont have to rely on 'lucky' Cov Ops or steals to get their Co pods. As the only CO killing CO the cutlass will be needed in attacks and defense. I think it's best to remove the temptation of shipdonating some pods at the start.

Overal, for each race I saw something that made me possibly want to play the race. So not bad.

22 Jul 2014, 18:52	#105
Shhhhhhh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 297	Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion With current 'first draft' in Beta: ( no bcalcing, waiting with that untill stats are final ) But targetting, Init and A/C D/C should give a good general idea. Terran FR , probably with War Cruiser for anti FR since CR as anti FR is nicer because of targetting. Seems good for self defense, bad vs Xan Fi , so overal difficult to attack with. No real use for adding in teamup FR : Average. Terran BS: Difficult to make a fleet that targets everything. I guess add Centaur and Chimera. Also means you can fake your FR as BS fleet. BS attack fleet is quite strong vs FR/DE defense. Tempting for attack, but overal terrible for ally def. Wanted for team up with ETD BS. : Average Cath CO: Add Tarantula for anti BS/CR , 3 ships to target everything. Good for attack with great efficiency, but vulnerable to some BW freezing your CO before they even get to emp themselves. Overal very good in attacking, and all ships useful for ally defense. Wanted for team up with ETD CO: Very strong. Cath DE: Not sure what to get for anti DE. No cath ships with T1 DE, so probably Viper since they can make the ETA. 4 ships to target everything. Great for attacking with their high efficiency ships. Hardly any T1 DE ships, so even if you don't fully EMP, losses wont be that big. Good self defense vs Co fleets with better Init. Very Strong ( slightly better than Cath Co strenght wise, but not possible to ally def with all ships) Cath CR: Beetle and Scorpion added to target everything. Stealing into your CR fleet would be awesome, but there arent that many fun CR ships to steal. Since the Zik CR has init advantage over it, a battle vs it wont be pretty. Only useful if the attacking CR has low anti BS in the fleet. Attack wise the CR fleet looks ok, however with so many possible FR/DE fleets landing might still be tough. Efficiency on the Mantis is great tho vs CR, so can't expect much more. Cath CR very wanted for teamups with Zik CR. Strong Xan Fi: Add Tzen for anti Fi and Shadow for anti CR/BS. Since Shadow as DE gets hit T2 mostly. Xan Fi in attack very vulnerable vs a bit of Tzen for suicide defense. In ally defense beetles and defenders have great efficiency vs it. Together with a bit of steal, it wont be that hard to cover. Xan Fi also vulnerable against EMP attackers, but good for ally def vs non emp attack ( besides Xan FR) No real teamup options or wanted for teamups, maybe if Zik builds daggers, and steals Xan fi, but thats kinda stretching. Below average Xan FR: Pulsar for anti FR, ally defense, tho crappy vs Xan FR, but can at least make eta. Xan FR has init advantage vs any kill ships that can make the ally def eta. So good in attack and good in self defense, only weak vs CR/BS in both attack and defense. Cloak advantage very useful with your FR fleet since it targets 5 out of 6 classes. Strong Xan BS: Peacekeeper great for anti CR, but besides that, bad init of the Broadsword and only targetting 3 ships with your attack fleet just seems bad overal. Dont see why you'd wanna play it. Weak Zik anything:: Stealing ships in attack classes makes it kinda messy, Overal can't really land anything solo, but it's 'normal' Zik stuff. There should at least be lots of EMP ships to team up with. And adding the zik ships to defensive battles does help a lot. Average ETD CO: Ghost for anti CR/BS. With Ghost being an awesome ally def ship. The Co fleet needs teamup with Cath Co for the freezing of FR/DE. 3 ships to target all classes, with great EMP efficiency on the defender. Not that great for solo attacking, but team up of Cath/Zik/ETD seems very strong. Out of those 3, ETD CO seems best in self defense. Strong ETD FR: Nice Cloak fleet, add Smuggler to anti FR/DE, stealing FR for your attack fleet. Missing anti DE in your attack fleet, but you don't want to attack on your own anyway with bad init of Lancers. Teaming up with cloaked Xan FR seems the obvious choice. Makes for a mean ( fake ) attack fleet. Very vulnerable in defense vs FR/DE. Average ETD DE: with Smuggler? for anti DE. given the overal strenght of CO, it seems like there will be a lot of it around, so it makes sense to get smugglers for ally def, they wont do much solo but with other co they do help. The DE attack fleet can team up with Cath DE to add killing power, but that's more taking advantage of the strenght of Cath DE. Devastator seems good , doesnt get hit much by BS/CR at T1. Average ETD BS: Devastator and Defender to target everything. The good Predator Init is a bit wasted since its only EMP and Steal CR that hits BS. Avenger has great efficiency vs FR and still decent vs DE. They will be wanted for teamup with Terran BS. Since both have T2 DE, it might even be useful to add Xan BS on a BS team up for Broadswords with their T1 DE and good dmg. Overal decent attack fleet, but bad in ally defense and self defense. Average Changes: I'd propose switching some T1 and T2 around. Pegasus hitting Fi/Co same as Black Widow isn't that useful. Switching it around would help increase the strenght of the ETD DE and make them more useful for teaming up with Cath DE. Also lowers the strenght of Co attack fleets a bit. So ingal/PL DE can stop them easier. Maybe Avenger to T1 DE and T2 FR so it's more wanted and useful with Terran BS. Beetle to T1 CO and T2 FI ( or defender depending on if Peg changes to T1 CO) But I guess all the EMP targetting FI/CO and none Co/Fi is because it's a pain/impossible to get efficiencies right otherwise. Besides that, Xan FI seems to have too many weaknesses and not enough strenghts. I'd increase their E/R a bit. Tzen murdering them and the normal EMP/Steal stopping them seems fine already. No need to make the EMP Co this great at stopping them. Oh and I'd just give the Zik a CO Pod. so they can join teamups with Co attack right from the start and dont have to rely on 'lucky' Cov Ops or steals to get their Co pods. As the only CO killing CO the cutlass will be needed in attacks and defense. I think it's best to remove the temptation of shipdonating some pods at the start. Overal, for each race I saw something that made me possibly want to play the race. So not bad.