View Single Post
Unread 25 Jul 2014, 18:29   #13
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Blue's Stats Discussion

It has been a while since I played a ST round but I have to admit I thought the point of them was that teamups would not be nearly so necessary – yet here you seem to say you are building it on the assumption of teamups.

A quick look at the attack fleets. I am not going to go into what defships everyone needs – the need for five or even six ships per race would make this post too long!

Terran: Built on the good old Terran assumption that it will absorb lots of damage. This does however mean it is going to be difficult to attack with.
Fighters: can only realistically target Zik and Cat – it is VERY good against cats. Both Etd anti Fi ships have the init advantage, same with Xan. I am guessing this would mostly be used as a secondary fleet that is really there as defships.
Destroyers: probably has even less option as most things at ally def eta 7 fire before them; Viper, banshee, cutlass and vendor. The only one that does not fire first is Terrans own phoenix but I would imagine a Terran with Fi is also likely to have Wyverns to sort that problem out.
Battleships: This leaves Bs as Terrans main attack fleet which is better although it has to contend with the Ghost in particular but also the clipper and the pedlar.
Terran therefore might if anything need up armoured to deal with its lack of init advantages.

Cathaar: The usual – in an attacking set of stats that is almost ST one would expect them to be pretty good.
Corvettes: of course has the init advantage but the beetle us not especially effective by cat standards ranging from just under 120% against Ter Fi to 180% against xan Fi, I rather hope that this means that cat co is not actually op.
Destroyers: De again suffers against Fi as a result of the Scarab firing first against Cr meaning it has disastrous effectiveness against Fighters. As Blue Esper mentions they desperately need to team with Etd as alone Xan fakes will stop Cat de in their tracks. Otherwise what you would expect from cat.
Cruisers: Cr looks to me the best cat fleet. Its main weakness is that the Retailer fires before the tarantula.
With all cat fleets with a weakness you might just have managed to avoid op Cats! Good Job!

Xandathrii: Low initiatives but paper thin, as xan should be – though they might not actually be paper thin enough to compensate for better initiative against almost everything that kills.
Fighters: Only the Investor as a kill ship has better initiative than xan fi so can potentially attack almost anything – emp should be a weakness but as mentioned the way the scarab fires means this is only a weakness against beetles.
Frigates: Xan fr fires simultaneously with a lot of things that targets it. The Vsharrak at the same time as both the Phantom and the Cutlass and the Apparation fires with the Tycoon. I am not sure you really want to cause so much nervousness in the pa community as hours and minutes get counted down on faked Xan Fr flying in on calcs that are horrible for both sides! Three ships actually fire before Xan Fr; the Predator, the Fireblade and the Wyvern. Still given their low armour I suspect it is enough that fr will mostly be used for def and as a fake.
Cruisers: The Cr looks good fires before all non emp except the Gryphon. The Peacekeeper fires simultaneously. Frankly I think this fleet is overpowered.
With the additional option of faking 3 fleets I think Xan is too good at the moment even with their weak armour.

Zikonian: Well the addition of the norm ships helps, but not a lot Zik will still have trouble attacking.
Corvettes: oddly making the cutlass normal does not help too much. The ship is not very effective against De – only just over 40% cost eff against Ter de; dire! - better against Fr but there are only 2 Fr ships that target Co; the Vsharrak and the thief. The Vsh fires simultaneously and a steal co could have fired before the Thief (and the Dealer for that matter)! What were you thinking with this ship? For the fleet as a whole ally def will probably kill any chance of solo roiding.
Frigates: Fr at least having the Clipper allows you to target Etd and Terran bs fleets – if they don't have predators (simultaneous again!) for the Etd or Harpies for the Terran. Otherwise same problem with ally def...
Cruisers: ...and same again.
I think Blue Esper must have been thinking of the Clipper and Cutlass defensively as they provide little help on attack. This is odd because Zik stealers are usually quite good defensively without the addition of low init ships.

Eitrades: very mixed.
Fighters: Fi looks pretty bad – neither ship has T1 against alliance defence! This is not as bad as it seems due to how comparatively little ally def there is against Fi only the Corsair, Beetle and Executive. Having their own anti co ship fire first seems to me to be odd – I would make the Vendor fire before the Exec particularly as the Exec is already out inited by their Xan targets. Against fr/de they are not much better; thief fires before broker! And investor before Vendor.
Destroyers: De is a much better fleet investor will roid those otherwise op Xan fi fleets. Pedlar allows gets the better over Etd Bs but *sigh * fires at the same time as the Wyvern. The Dealer being steal is not as much of a problem as it could be; as mentioned the Cutlass is pretty bad against De. Though xan and zik cr would be a worry for anyone playing this. The Dealer is surprisingly underpowered compared to other steal ships.
Battleships: And finally Etd Bs is not very effective. It is good against cr. However being dire against Fr/De probably kills its chances. The Tycoon finds itself firing after or the same time as every Fr/De that targets Bs!

I said I would not mention def ships – but not only does Xan have some of the best attack fleets it has some of the best def ships. Traditionally Xan is weak against Cr/Bs but here the Ghost fires before both etd and ter bs while the fireblade fires simultaneously with Xan Cr and of course before Zik.

I don't like ST – or almost ST as this is – so perhaps I am being too negative if so I apologise. I think Zik could still use an improvement – perhaps make those normal ships help at preventing alliance def not just gal def, Terran armour could be boosted if not going to improve their inits, and perhaps there should be less ships firing at each other at the same time.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 25 Jul 2014 at 18:42.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote