Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
I am failing to understand this. Under what circumstances at the moment do harpies continue taking damage even after they are dead?
(...)
Or do you mean something along the lines of what we had with terran and etd a few rounds back where there is a big gap in the armour between the two? It was possible for the low armour fleet in a teamup to be wiped out and a good chunk of the high armour one survive. If this is the case then the harpy has to be just about the worst possible example as it is regularly one of the highest armored ships in the game in comparison to its cost.
|
This. Ships continue to be shot at, even if there are none left.
if 2000 guns with 1 damage each fire at 200 harpies with 4 armor each and 600 phantom with 2 armor each, then 200 * 2000 / ( 200 + 600) = 500 guns fire at the harpies 600 * 2000 / (200 + 600) = 1500 guns fire at the phantoms. This causes 125 harpies and 600 phantoms to die. If you add up the gunpower need to kill that number of ships, you get 125 * 4 + 600 * 2 = 1700 gundamage. The 300 gundamage is lost forever. This is flak, and it's the reason you don't create huge discrepancies in the
size of ships in the same class. See Ter/Xan De in r50 for a counter-example.
It's actually worse than that. If the ships behind the 2000 guns have a T2, and there's a bunch of Beetle present as well, then those 300 guns that went up in smoke before will now fire at the Beetles.
And I can make it even worse: say those guns are contributed by 2 types of ship: 1000 from a ship with a T2, and 1000 from a ship without. Both ships have the same init, and they fire at 250 Harpies (1000 armor total) and a bunch of Beetles. The order in which those ships are given a chance to fire is undefined. If the ship with a T2 goes first, it kills all of the Harpies, with no guns left over, and then the ship without a T2 does nothing, because there's nothing left to fire at. If the ship without a T2 goes first, it kills all of the Harpies, but then the ship with a T2 does get a chance to fire at the Beetles. This can be a difference of up to about 30% extra value killed (50% of ships, 60% T2 eff), and the only way you can know which it is, is by running a bcalc. And no, the order of the ships on the stats page is not the order used by the combat engine, and neither is the reverse order.
All in all, the combat engine code is not fun. I spent some time figuring out how to write a bcalc, for use during the stats creation process (manually creating 10x10 bcalcs is boring as hell), and this is the reason I didn't go through with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
Do you mean a ship with high damage can only kill 1 ship as it only has one gun, even if the damage it deals could in theory kill large numbers of ships? I can see this would make a big difference if there were ever to be a battleship kill ship targeting fi or co. Been a long time since there have been any. While this seems logical I am pretty sure it is not what happens today... 4k clippers this round can kill a lot more than 4k harpies (9037 according to calc) despite their only having a gun each.
|
This is overshooting. The stats page has been pretty unclear about this, with kill/steal/cloak ships all having 1 gun with X damage, rather than X guns with 1 damage. The latter is how the combat engine functions. The former is how the stats page implies it functions, especially because EMP
is listed correctly: EMP ships have guns and each EMP gun can only EMP 1 ship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
Perhaps you should remind people how these work... I for sure played these rounds but cant say I remember!
|
0.25 + attacker WpSp / 100- defender Agil / 100 = fraction of guns firing that hit.
Quite frankly, I've never been really sure what it added.