[Paisley]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Why isn't your money actually in reality on it then if you're so certain?
Honestly - if you had made this prediction in the early 2000s, it'd carry some value. Post financial crisis, it's not all that impressive.

Because I was still asleep in the early 2000's going out to piss my wages up against the wall (drinking at bars etc) and I have only waken up in the last several years.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

The problem really isn't the monetary system. I've tried to argue this, but obviously we're just running circles, because we're unable to discuss anything else but the monetary system - and even it, we're discussing in an extremely limited scope.

Acknowledging the concept of The Issue of money at interest (loaned out) and the only means to pay it off is more money with the same debt issued money at interest ofcourse from the only means to pay the debt off (also known as a monopoly) and its snowballing effect.

Until you do then you can't move on.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

I'll answer you: the rich and the powerful.
The rich and the powerful have benefited from the poor and the weak throughout the history of humanity, and a brief 40 year spell of 'modern monetary system' post Bretton Woods doesn't make an exception. In fact, the era of the modern monetary system is one of the first incidents of when things have actually been, for a brief while, less dramatic - during the mid 20th century or so. Correlation, causality? Probably first, unlikely second - in either of the cases. After having a cigarette, I'll take that back. In fact, during that era, it was the rich and powerful benefiting from poor and weak as it's always been.

Refering to the above answer... Until folk can see that they are being taxed (partially or directly depending on the taxation means) as a result of the above that trend will continue.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Let me rephrase: was the 'prison' slaves were in during the mid 1000s made by the monetary system? Or the prison non-native Athens were in the 'golden era of Greece'?

Usuary (lending money out at interest in ancient times) was banned in most places... Some folk of that time might have seen it as evil?
Now ask yourself what happens when you can't see the forest for the trees.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

"Has that happened also? Is Blackwater effectively the US military now?"

They do have alot work from the US government in Iraq, afghanistan and in america aswell.
Now what was blackwater doing in the USA?

http://www.ustraining.com/new/index.asp
have a look on their website and then do some research in their role of hurricane katrina

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

"Government has no legitimacy, so arguing the legitimacy of the Federal Reserve is pointless in comparison."

"Just because the Supreme Court or a Federal appeals court says something is acceptable, doesn't automatically mean it's true. Just like Congress and the President were subverted, the court system was also subverted."
[/i]

I am Glad you are now starting to ask questions... now to get you started on finding the answers for yourself.

Constitution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsLjN...eature=related
http://www.infowars.com/new-orleans-...-confiscation/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

Government

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Congress
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_914538.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91QEIenOeY0

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

How can you fight this with reasonable arguments?
If we simply decide to back our arguments with the "fact" that the entire nation is essentially "subverted" then any serious person will simply have to lift their hands up in the air and yield. There's no point. To his credit, he does state it himself - but this kind of arguing is the mother of all strawmen.

I would like everyone to look into the above URLs

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

"The Federal Reserve's open market operations have never been audited. The full details are carefully kept secret."

This has to do with the theory of central banking (I'm not going to go into details - say, L.E.O Svensson has written a lot on the subject of inflation targeting, and it has to do with this). Government audits also do not necessarily have to be public. All of this is moot, however, since after the article was written, Fed has had quite a bit of a change in their policy on open market operations.

"This is entirely the whole point of the Compound Interest Paradox. Every dollar in circulation only exists due to a loan. The principal is created but not the interest.

In January 2008, the Federal Reserve announced a surprise 0.75% decrease in the Fed Funds Rate. People who knew in advance profited immensely."

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

We've heard this a few times now. Still, it persists on ignoring the temporal component of the a) loan and the b) economy.

Good old boom and bust and how it is used to consolidate wealth from the rich/in the club from the others.
Question keiz... Did you take the time to look into USA from the 1920's to the early 1930's ?

The second paragraph is simply quoted to again emphasize difference on different central banking systems. There were reasons why central banks used to apply 'shocks' to economies. There's debate on which is the correct way to function - either way, European Central Bank is extremely predictable (and it's a part of their strategy).

"Whenever Congress wants to, it could pass a law allowing it to directly print and spend money to pay down the national debt."

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

However, if they really wanted, they could also just devalue the dollar. There's really nothing that'd prevent them from doing it - they wouldn't even have to go as far as to print money. All in all, it's obviously a tax to those people who hold dollar currency. Namely, households (internally). None of this is 'shocking' or 'new' - say, Finland used to devalue frequently, even though it wasn't 'really allowed'. It was done to kick gear into exports, and it was more or less a direct transaction from households to export companies.

I'll take the time to look into the history of finland's money.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

"Money directly printed and spent by the government prevents the Compound Interest Paradox from enslaving everyone."

Really. Robert Mugabe tried this in Zimbabwe. He was somewhat limited in his success.

Good question, I had to take the time to look into this to why the colonial scrip of a young USA seen unpresidented growth in its time and how zimbabwean fiat dollar failed...

So what happens when there is rampant corruption in a country
(What I would call corruption ...
Corruption is a general concept describing any organised, interdependent system in which part of the system is either not performing duties it was originally intended to, or performing them in an improper way, to the detriment of the system's original purpose. Political corruption, meanwhile, refers to dysfunctions of a political system or institution in which politically elected officials seek illegitimate personal gain through actions such as bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, patronage, graft, and embezzlement.)

Also is dependent on international aid and when that aid stops through sanctions as a result through Mugabe's policies like land reform.
Then there is a lost of Confidence in the government issued currency when the people had no confidence in the Government itself?