London today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm
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However, one of the witness reports on the news shocked me. According to him, the police ran after the man and catched him. Then, two plainclothes cops held him down while the last one shot him! As far as I know, disobeying a police officer is not a crime punishabale by death (UK don't even have the death penalty, if I have my facts straight) I was just wondering if you guys (I presume the UK news has given more info out on this, or at least had a more updated report) Also, what does people think about this? Is the fact that it's not a regular criminal but a potential (with stress on potentia) terrorist make this more ok? What's the public reaction, if any, to this? To me, right now, this sounds more like a execution then anything else, but as I said, I don't know the full situation. |
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Personally i'd have given him a shoeing first.
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I think most people are glad he's dead. If he went through our justice system, he'd have been out in 5 years. And Whilst he was there, he'd have had sky tv in his personal room.
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Should they, if they are as bad or worse then terrorists, also be shot if they refuse to obey the police? And isn't it questionabale to just gun down a person? As I said before, I do not know the whole situation, but there are a thousand reasons to run from the police, even if he came from a "terrorist hangout" (For the lack of a better expression). And is the death penalty, in your opinion, a good thing? |
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Apparently under new anti-terrorism guidelines the police have been instructed to 'shoot to kill'. The difference with current guidelines is that they shoot for the largest body mass (the chest) they 'shoot to incapcitate'. Under the new guidelines they are no longer under any perrogative to try to keep a suicide bomber for example alive, they aim specifically for the head. So in the example the police probably thought he was still a threat even whilst trying to subdue him, so they blew his head off.
**** me sideways and call me a bitch but am i going to come to a screeching halt everytime i hear police. Oh and im really surprised (though i probably shouldn't be) at the number of armed plainsclothes police that seem to be about. |
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Just a few points....
1) Would it not have been better to try and get some information outta the guy? No-one still knows why he ran from the police, but if I seen people running at me with handguns I'd be worried. In that situation I mightn't hear them shouting anyhting at me... 2) one guy said " He half-tripped and was half pushed to the floor by the men". It was after they had him on the ground that they fired five bullets into his head. Maybe it's just me, but is that not excessive force??? Surely once they had him pinned down, they had control of the situation.... |
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2) The guy was trying to kill people. I dont care if its excessive force or not. If they aren't as harsh as they were, they might have died alongside him. He was probably going to die anyways, but he wanted to take people with him. I am glad he's been killed. Might send a message to the rest of the ****s, but I doubt it. The Muslim community needs to take more responsibility for the attacks, and try to stop them. They have done nothing but claim they dont agree with it. They MUST know that some of the muslims in the area are extremists. They should have been notified to the police. Everyone is scared of upsetting the muslims, for fear of a religious war. However, they need to do all they can to stop this happening. |
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in religious terms you might understand that is excomunication. they said any terrorist stops being a muslim. to terrorists motivated by religion what better punishment is there? |
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but the past attempts have all been through bombs in back-packs... this guy didin't have any kind of bag, was carrying nothing. If he had have had something on him, he woulda dentonated in the crowd in the station. If the cops were soo worried about explosives, they would not have " half pushed" him onto the train.
As for the muslims not trying to stop things, here's a question. How can you know what someone is going to do. I went to school, played football with, even went to the pub with a guy who, one day took a bomb into a shop in belfast that killed 10 people. I had no idea he was even involved in anything. They have evaded the police, MI5/6 etc because they don't go spreading what they do around... |
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we do not know the truth yet. you can't pass judgement until the truth is known. |
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point taken...
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i remember the day of the attack on new york. i had 5 sepparate sources
all telling me utterly contradictory things. there's no shame in life in remembering that "it isn't until the dust settles that one can truly see" |
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I think this will have more of an effect on outsiders perception of Britain than any speech Tony Blair will ever give. All day today on US public radio they have been talking about this incident. Just the visual image of this event is so contrary to anything anyone expected.
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Any loss of life is regrettable, as for why this happened or if it was purposeful, or if he was a terrorist, we may never know.
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Most people are nervous generally of the police shooting people, but I think it's generally accepted that people who attempt to blow up trains full of people might be considered rather dangerous and therefore might need extra force to stop them. I doubt many people would give a shit one way or another about the man himself. Even statements from various Muslim groups have centred around whether this reflects a change in policy generally / could happen again. |
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what kind of police shot this man? special unit?
from what i know uk policemen are not allowed to wear weapons. |
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If the words "armed police halt" were shouted and he didn't (halt that is) no matter what else is or was the case, whether he had a bomb or anything, the guy deserves to be dead for being so ****ing retarded as to continue running what with the current climet being what it is (Darwin Award nominee etc).
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Yes indeed but speculation is all we have atm so just enjoy it etc. |
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Atleast its not becouse of Iraq.
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A panel of spanish immams (finally!) issued the first fatwa against bin Laden and al Qaeda in March of this year but I can't say I've noticed any results. :/ |
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On BBC News Hour this morning a witness to the scene was on the air and he said something like "He [the suspect] was terrified and running. He looked absolutely terrified and they shot him. He was terrified and now he's dead." The witness was completely revolted by the sight of seeing a subdued man, on the ground, with people on him (is that what happened?) shot anyways.
Personally I think that if he was down, what's the point of shooting him? I want to know why he was shot. Exactly why. And if it turns out to be some vague answer as "we thought he was dangerous and wasn't listening to us" then I think an investigation needs to take place. |
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Edit: if they thought that he had some kind of remote device that might start an explosion that would make some sense, but can't they use tasers or something? |
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**** the new york times
all their story means is that some arsehole reporter managed to cobble together a few hundred words this is england ffs do you want to know everything about a shooting on stockwell underground station? well bully for you because the fact is WE DON'T KKNOW YET |
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hmmmm?? who verifies them? who checks them out? you're american and it is a very sad fact that america's impatience has lead to it's citizens being happier with the first convincing lie you have no patience to wait for the truth well let the rest of us wait for the truth. it takes longer than your 'big mac' takes to cook i'm afraid. |
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EDIT: we have laws in this country. if the officer murdered an innocent he will be held to account. but in the absense of truth to damn that officer is absurd. when the dust settles we will know the truth. everyone: even a police officer, is innocent until proven guilty. i despise this mob justice. this judging via the media. |
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I know what Jack Bauer would have done and asking him to stop nicely wasn't it.
If I was a police officer lying on top of a suspected terrorist who I had reason to believe had a bomb strapped to his belt (As many of the eye witness accounts point to) which could be detonated at the touch of a button blowing up an entire underground carriage then I know what I'd do and what I'd expect the police to do, if it does turn out he didn't have a bomb on him but was one of those involved in the earlier bombings then those officers made the right call. |
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It sucks but i'd rather it happened than it didn't and another bomb went off. |
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Judgement is often passed before the truth is known. Judgement is often adhered to even after the facts prove the original judgement false. If this had happened in the United States, the GD population would have been all over it passing judgement like madmen at the Broadmoor. |
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"Terrorists" get scared too. Wow, that's news. They bleed the same colour as everyone else, and when they die they don't laugh in an evil Hollywood movie style. It'll probably emerged he pissed or shit himself too. And that won't be news either, and certainly won't affect how just this was (or wasn't for that matter). |
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Also, if you need to shoot someone then you either need to stop them doing something very bad (from your point of view) or you don't need to shoot them. If you need to stop them that badly then you don't want them wounded and even more desperate so you kill them. Soldiers have understood this for a long time, it works the same way for police. If you need to shoot someone then you need to kill them, there is no shoot to wound in the real world. |
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But why would you ever need to shoot to wound? There are times when it would certainly be useful but then it's not a need and if you don't need to use a gun then you don't.
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Afaik it hasn't been confirmed that he actually were a terrorist. Maybe he just were in a hurry to reach the train? Last one seems unlikely though, but come on, I wouldn't run to catch the train in London nowadays, that's for sure.
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