Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Heh, this should be interesting for you, MM.

http://solidarity.indymedia.org.uk/

Info for those that don't know:
Indymedia is an independant media organisation.
On Thursday 7th the FBI seized the harddrives from one of the Indymedia servers hosted at the UK devision of Rackspace in London. How were they able to do this? It looks like they were acting as an intermediary for the Italian and Swiss governments, under an MLAT (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty). These treaties are designed to allow countries which have signed up to "assist each other in investigations such as international terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering".

There are a couple of very important aspects to MLATs that you should know.
Firstly, they must be authorised by the relevant official in the country(s) originating the request, AND the target country(s). In the case of the UK, that is the Home Office and David Blunkett. Thats right, the man who wants us all under survailance 24/7 and carrying ID cards so he can check up on us is responsible for handing over sensitive data on a very shakey legal basis (see below). Why am I not surprised.
Secondly, MLATs included multiple gagging orders. This means Rackspace has been gagged. Indymedia is unable to find out why it's data was taken because Rackspace are not allowed to tell them, unless they fancy prosecution (and as they're a US company, accusations of treason from G.W. no doubt).

Why has Indymedia targeted then?
A few days ago the Swiss let slip that they wanted the information because it would help in it's investigation of Indymedia's coverage of the G8 summit in Evian, 2003. Um, and that comes under the terms of an MLAT why?
However, the immediate and worrying connection has been made to the Italians. At the G8 summit in Genoa 2001, Indymedia journalist Mark Covell was beaten to a unconcious and left with multiple broken ribs and a collapsed lung by Italian police. Other people at the time, demonstrators or otherwise, were similarly treated, including one who was shot dead. Indymedia covered the police behaviour intensly, and Mark Covell started legal action against the Italian police. This prompted an inquirey by the Italian government, and a deportation order for Mark Covell. The Italians seem less than happy to see their police service charged with murder and GBH.

The seizure of the discs is highly likely to be related to this. Indymedia was hosting images of the Italian riot police involved which it was asked to pull. There are ongoing court cases in Italy by Mark Covell and others against the Italian police.
Here's the clincher:
On one of the drives is Mark Covell's data, including email correspondance between him and his Italian lawyer regarding the Genoa case. Hmmmm!
Makes it easy to see why the Italian government might want it, right?

None of the above comes under the legitimate uses of an MLAT.
MLATs require evidence to be in existance and specified, whereas this appears to be the Italians and the Swiss confiscating these on the hope of finding something.
Blunkett, twat that he is, has handed over legal documents for a current case to the Italian governement to aid with their surpression and coverup of the case and it's coverage.
Indymedia now has its harddrives back and has verified that they are the originals. They are "verifying" the data on them (presumably checking what files have been accessed etc).

There has still been no explanation from the Home Office for this.
David Blunkett will face questions on this issue in parliament today.
Why do I get the feeling we won't get answers?

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

The truth is out there!

No by the way.

It's always great seeing one heavily biased viewpoint of an argument, I'm sure they think they are all superhero's, personally if they want to make a difference, get involved in politics don't be some twat who thinks they are above the law.

Until I actually see evidence of what they are accusing I'm going to call bullshit. (I mean all this conspiracy shit, I know fine well they are getting taken off-line cause they were begging for attention on-line...)

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I support it on the basis that any way to get a David Blunkett is a good thing in my books.
Seriously, the man is a pillock.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

You should blame the people who abuse the gifts of science that neccessitate these laws rather than the man who has to be the messenger.

The only thing we should wish on David Blunkett is 1 million AOL CD's coming through his letterbox.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

It'd be a start.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

90% of Anti-Capitalist’s are terrorists and a site that seeks to support their cause by reporting on their movement it in a biased manner is just as guilty. It makes me sick to see these brain-dead morons smashing up shops every May, because in their sheer arrogance they believe their cause is so divine as to allow them to break the laws of the land, however in reality they are plain and simple Neanderthalic thugs (Just like Animal rights 'activists' have been of late). Jailing/deporting/shooting them all would be the ideal, hell it’s not like they contribute to society in a positive way anyway, but I guess temporarily shutting down one of their avenues for recruitment is a good start.

When it comes to groups that use violence and terror to prompote their cause laws should mean nothing anyway, it's their choice to be such a-holes. They are throwing their rights away by their own choosing – fk ‘em!

However this is David Blunkett we're taking about here, he's worse than any terrorist, he must flout the law at least a dozen times per day, in this case I'm with him, but other times he goes way too far. I'd rather see the back of him first.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

surely if your the one defining the law, you can never break it ?

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

That sounds like a dictatorship...

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

To reflect our changing times, the Hitler Rule should clearly be replaced by the Terrorist Rule.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

What was the Hitler Rule?
90% of Anti-Capitalists are Hitler?

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

All capitalists are 90% Hitler.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

The first person to mention Hitler loses the argument automatically.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Thats not a market friendly way to look at it.
If you want to sell capitalism, you'll have to try a more positive approach.
How about this:

Try All New Capitalism(tm) Today!
(now with 10% less Hitler)

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

The Swiss and Italian Goverments want to clean your harddisks today!

Our US vendors will be placing orders with you soon!

Free and Obligatory, We cleaned Mr Blunkett's harddisk and this is what he had to say!

"I still see things, I just choose not to acknowledge them, its like a diet of the mind. I choose not to induldge in certain appetites"

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Someone who does something that terrorises a party is a terrorist.

Just because it's a hot word with today's media doesn't mean the word doesn't have accurate relative substance in day to day debating.

Keep your Hitler rule as is please.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

OK that'll do as a definition. I'd still like to see some evidence to support the original claim that 90% of the anti-capitalists are "terrorists". Although I'd imagine Emperor whatsit is trolling since he wrote a similarly vitriolic support of the Tory Party in another thread and then didn't reply to any responses.

(p.s. the "Hitler law" is called Godwin's Law)

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I was so sure your post was a joke after reading this line I nearly skipped the rest of it and missed out on a fantastic excursion into the realm of insanity.

This gets my nomination for post of the week :up:

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I'm not signing that. Things like that destroy legitimate governments.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Why should this particularly interest me?

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I wondered that. Maybe he's implying you love David Blunkett.

(no, not in that way)

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

David Blunkett is an unruly **** with emotional difficulties, and I am happy to let the record show this.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Would you vote for him, if he was the Labour candidate in your constituency?

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

If they even suggested fielding him up here then I would personally set fire to TB's pubes.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Ok, seeing as people seem to have got the idea that indymedia is some a bunch of maoist commy scumb, let me explain i few things, please. Indymedia, in the UK atleast has nothing to do with terrorists, scuicide bombers or the people that write socialist worker. Have a look at your local indymedia site (yes, you do have one, its usually something like bristol.indymedia.org or simliar, but look www.indymeadia.org) you should see the site is about local issues for that area. The main story will probably be something about the councils efforts to close lower the opening the hours of the local OAP's club or maybe a campaign against buiding a mobile phone next to a local park. You will find the odd bit about international issues and proabably some blatent anti-labour/blunket reporting but i guarrantee the emphasis will be local issues.

So now you know indymedia isn't out to resurect the USSR why should you sign the petition. Well because Indymedia is possibly unique in being a non-corporate local source of journalism. It reports things that are missed or to small for any other media source. As it has no grand editor controlling it, there is no censorship. This case shows the last two point very well. First off a someting like this wouldnt be investigated by the BBC, when they looked at Genoa they showed pictures or GW and pictures of riot police. Indeymedia system means you get truly independent journalism that takes a proper look at something. Secondly, whether you indulge in conspiricy theories or not, it is clear from recent events such sa Hutton and all that crap that major institutions often can't risk sensitve stories like the the one involved here, for accusations of editorial bias.

So there you go, sign the petition, and if you still wont then tell me why. Indymedia is one of your few oppertunities for reporting free from any bias, censorship, spin or slant other than the reporters opinion, and any government that does oppose that does deserve to be broght down.

flow

i know i cant spell, do grammar or probably even paragraph right, but i dont really care, as long as you understand my argument then its ok really.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Indymedia may be free of censorship but free from bias ? My arse it is. If it was a straight reportage news site wouldn't be happy about the FBI raiding their drives but with the content being mainly a big recruitment advertisent for various anarchist groups I think the world is better off without them.

~Vaio~

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

i did say bias other than the reporters opinion, perhaps i didnt make that clear enough. Please tell me how it is recruiting group for anarchists, or atleast have a proper look at an indymedia site and present some evidence before you make vauge accusations about it. If you think the world is better of without them then you either have no understanding of how it works, or no interest in community reporting and groundroutes journalism

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

As if they'd only keep that kind of information on servers in the same room.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

British government abuses law, spies on citizens on behalf of political allies. It seems hardly newsworthy :(.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Is community reporting and groundroutes journalism articles about various anarchist groups boastnig of their activities in such diverse results as harrasing staff and customers at 10 Starbuck's shops ? or is that just a bunch of unwashed arseholes boasting about making wankers of themselves ? See, I don't understamd this direct action lot. If they don't like a shop why not just go somewhere else ? It's much easier or do they just like to act like twats ? Please explain

~Vaio~

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

iirc the servers in question had been used in publishing details of a swiss undercover operations......

I could be wrong.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Well, it depends on why you don't like the shop, surely?

For instance, there's a newsagents relatively close to where I used to live who were quite rude to me. As a result, I never go in there even if I'm passing and need something. OK, it's a small thing, but it's me exercising my consumer choice.

For larger things, it might be necessary to go further. So some people like to tell other people of their negative experiences in order to prevent that business from gaining further customers. Most people would consider this reasonable. On these forums I believe Mong has a link in his signature for people who have been poorly treated by O2 Online. This is a form of direct action of course.

Now, what if your problem against a company wasn't their service but a wider review of their business practices. So maybe it's animal rights, or something similar. An example might be BP - who are alleged to have (in the past) co-operated with right-wing militia's in Colombia in the murder / assaults of trade union organisers and such. Since I don't even have a car it's facile to say "Well buy your petrol from someone else if you don't like it". Further measures might be necessary.

Now, more generally I'm not going to say that all direct action (or people who do direct action) is excellent. Of course some of it is either stupid or morally reprehensible. But to tar everyone with the same brush, and resorting to stereotypes (e.g. "unwashed" - do you know they don't wash? Does it even matter?) seems rather poor form. If I hear that some political parties use violence to gain votes can I condemn every political party?

Finally, on Indymedia : Even if you hate their politics and think their articles are poorly written drivel there's still a free speech issue. Government using their powers to silence any group is a worrying precedent (and you'll see that in any thread advocating censoring the BNP or similar I always argue in favour of their free speech), so their politics is largely irrelevent.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

That direct action lot gained you the vote, the right to strike, freedom of the press and any number of the priveliges you enjoy in a modern democratic country (i'm assuming you do). I'm not asking you to agree with them, but dont call people involved in direct action "twats" when you owe people like them so much. Now will you please find your local indymedia site www.indymedia.org site so you can atleast argue with an informed judgement rather than a vauge assumptive one. Please dont tell me you have already as your spelt groundroots as i did, so i really do doubt you have been there.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

flow-, please, you mean "grassroots".

I went to a small shop and grabbed a packet of crisps. I handed a two pound coin to the lady behind the counter and asked "can I have the change in 10p's and 20p's for table football?". She said "I'm sorry, I can't afford it."

Ok you probably had to be there. :(

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Hey ****face, are you serious? Show some evidence that these people are brain-dead morons, please.
Oh, and I break the laws beacause the law is holding me and others down. I don't follow orders. Is that wrong? A hypotetical situation, and a extreme one. It's illegal for a soldier to disobey his commanders orders, and his commander order him to shoot into a group of women and children. No futher explanation. So, acording to your logic (In the extreme), he should follow his orders, his law, his duty?

Please, I want you to elaborate. Do my dislike of the system, of the oppressors and their helpers, and my action against them, make me a terrorist? If that is enough (Smashing a starbucks or throwing a stone at a police officer) to get capital punishment, as you suggested, then aren't you the terrorists, trying to terrorize people into being silent or giving up their way of life/goals/utopia?

What rights are I throwing away? The right to vote for a party that's following a system I see as evil? The right to choose if my coffe is made by poor african's or poor asians? The right to follow the rules?

The people you are talking about are risking their lives (Carlo Gulliani I think his name was, a guy who was murdered by Italian police in Genoa), their "futures", and their health, and lots of other things, to try to fight back against the people that are responsible for the deaths of thousands, the supressing of even more and the destruction of earth itself. Please, try to understand a little more about such a diverse movement before condemming them all.

To all those dissing indymedia. Indymedia is a place where everybody can upload their own views and coverages of things. This is great, beacause I can get to know what fellows like myself, fellows on the more conservative left, social-democrats or whatever, think of a demo, a subject, or a happening. All I see on the news are "brain-dead" people rightfully taking the right of self-defence. It's a very nice tool of (Or could be a nice tool) free speeach, and thus, attacking it is attacking the concept of free speech. Isn't that kinda, uhh, like bad people do?

Direct action, mass movement, anarchist/communist/left-wing ideals have given some good things to the world. Of course, not enough, but it is a start.

Oh, by the way, I wear black, I do direct-action, and I don't ****ing wash. Soap is oppressing people every day!!!!!!!11111

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

The rest of your post proved the 1st line

NEVER POST DRUNK !

~Vaio~

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

My penis oppresses the proletariat.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I signed it. I'll sign any petition. :up:

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

That was a pretty poor response dude.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I do the exact same thing only it's the "corner" shop at the Underground stop i get off at.

I also dont buy Coke Cola.

SMASH THE STATE!

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

It's to be expected, in fact pretty poor is above normal for him.

That said how many people have indeed signed this petition, I'm guessing all of none so clearly posted succeeded...

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I was tired :)

~Vaio~

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

I did, and I forwarded it to someone who will sign later day I suspect.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Change your name to Flip-Flop at once.

Re: Sign the Indymedia petition, y'all
 

Huh?