Ancient history
 

I can't speak nor judge of anything past round 16, but in the first 15 rounds of PA I haven't known a single top alliance (or alliance with the intention to win the round) that hasn't at one point or another betrayed, deceived or manipulated his/her allies, NAP's etc ...

Yes, including my own alliances.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

eXilition never backstabbed anyone (dropping a NAP within the terms of your agreement is not backstabbing/betraying), neither did 1up, and I can't say I can remember ND ever doing it (they've won back to back rounds so as hilarious as it is they've kinda gotta be classed a "top alliance")

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Dragons was also fairly honorable, perhaps the one thing that could be held against them would have been the r9.5(?) attempt to break the WEET block (When Dragons were still a BG), however that move was sanctioned by WP HC, who later denied any involvement.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

It was r9.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I was more speaking in terms of pre PAX alliances such as Legion, Fury, Virus, ...

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Dragons were a pre-PAX alliance. And if you count ViruS, you have to count Elysium and WolfPack, both of whom were by and large honest. I can't really think of any true betrayals perpetrated by Xanadu, TitanS or the original FAnG either. Or Concordium for that matter. Actually, if you boil it down, most of the questionable actions were taken by Legion and Fury, and these were more so committed during their early existence. Perhaps in response to this and as a realization of the perception of their questionable moral fiber they later started the "Strength & Honor" campaign, in an attempt to salvage their reputations, if not always in action then at least in word.

I reckon most of the late oldschool alliances were quite influenced by the actions of Furgion, and wanted to set themselves apart from the shady nature of these two giants. Perhaps you don't feel this way, but where I spent my years after the fall of FAnG, respectability, honor and loyalty were extremely valued.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Comparing a group that was a middling BG for a few rounds and an alliance for one to alliances that were always right at the top of the game is really pointless. People only "betray" when they need to or when there's nothing else to do. At that point it's just a natural evolution due to boredom.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Ignoring the fact that most of the active playerbase from this game left for PIA and that the following rounds did form a part of the oldschool PA legacy is rather silly tbh. Just because you didn't play it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, as much as you'd like to think the world revolves around you.

After all, you do still acknowledge the existence of Ministry as a group, which is wholly a result of PIA, not the small wing of Xanadu that existed in PA.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

We're talking pre-pax alliances man. You can't start randomly integrating other games just because they played pa beforehand and you think they were still active for god's sake. Look at me, I'll start talking about how my corporation in eve was great or something equally zzzz...

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

The EVE playerbase differed quite a bit from PA/PIA though. Also, it's a completely different game, where as PIA was a straight up clone of oldschool PA.

Many alliances of PA moved to PIA, including Dragons, Elysium, Hirr, Rock, Ministry etc. etc. Some other alliances which have had an impact on PA since were started in PIA, amongst them Omen. The integration of LDK/Dragons in PIA is a direct reason for eXilitions existence. You really can't escape the fact that the two games were largely intertwined, and PIA is a part of the history of the PA playerbase.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Yes he can, it's easier to argue that way.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

It doesn't make sense to talk about ******** in terms of pre-pax/post-pax and what alliances did what when. PAX is a defining split in the history of PA, not internet space-based spreadsheet games. Sure the level of competition continued the decline it had been experiencing since round seven but that's really besides the point. I mean look at the alliances you named. We're not exactly talking PA powerhouses here. Sure ******** is part of the history of many members of the pa playerbase. It is not a part of the history of individual rounds of PA itself though. Which is what we, in this kjeldoran actually, were talking about.

Seriously man, stop posting like this. It's cringe-worthy stuff.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I'd disagree. Dragons is one of the best alliances I've seen (as in, better than Legion, Fury, Xanadu, Apprime and certainly on par with 1up!, eXilition and Ascendancy), and I've played alongside/against pretty much every powerhouse alliance in PA/PIA.

Or do you wish to argue I don't know what I'm talking about in terms of these PA alliances?

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I believe you're horrifyingly biased and arguing this with you would be a worse use of my time than arguing pa strategy with kenny or something like that.

Realistically maybe you were but there's just not much of a basis for comparison. The rounds dragons played in pa they were contenders sometimes but far from dominant or considered as one of the major influencing factors in a round. I don't think there really is a way to resolve it. I really don't think there's any point in including what they did in ******** in a discussion of the history of the political outcomes of the various rounds of planetarion.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

That's your opinion, and I'll respectfully continue to disagree, as I suspect will most who actually played PIA. A quick reminder, during the rounds when PIA was going on, competition in PA was pretty much a joke, as no good leaders put their effort into PA until Syn_Sid returned and started 1up!, which btw happened during a round of low activity in PIA as many of my friends actually played in the original 1up! and then promptly returned to PIA and Dragons afterwards. eXi only became a reality or possibility as Dragons wound down in PIA, freeing up MacTanzu, Kaifux, BaSSe, ricka and LordN (3 Dragons and 2 LDK) to HC the first incarnation of eXilition. Even the god damn PAWiki admits the rold of ex-PIA players in the founding of eXi: Round 13 Summary

Oh, and PAWiki also claims it wasn't actually originally intended for PA at all, but unnamed "clone" game. eXilition

But yeah, totally, nothing to do with each other.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Uh, how many rounds are you actually talking about here? Like 1? 2 max? Round 10 and 10.5 are the only ones in between sid starting 1up and the end of pax. And round 10 saw both dragons play pa and a large number of ldk players in fang. So you're actually claiming greatness for ******** based on the fact that the level of competition was higher in r10.5, a round widely acknowledged as one of the shittest in the history of the game?

And for god's sake do I have to repeat myself again? I'm not claiming the playerbases aren't intertwined. I'm saying that talking about what alliances did what politically during ******** rounds is irrelevant in a discussion of the history of the politics during planetarion rounds. I really don't know how many more different ways I can say this. Perhaps google has a universal thesaurus function I can use for it.


I can see how you read and interpreted it as that. Totally.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

It becomes a bit blurry, as PIA was played at twice the tickspeed and rounds were ended when stagnation had set in, and were not of a set length. I'd say for about r10, 10.5 and 12 of PA the focus was largely on PIA, perhaps r11 could also be counted as such, I don't quite remember if skaut/carnis etc. also played PIA with us while they were playing in 1up!, thus can't gauge how intense the corresponding time in PIA was.

Anyway, your point is that you wish to limit the discussion to only the politics of PA, Kj's point was to limit them to oldschool PA. Both of these are artificial limitations, and as you've just admitted the playerbases and alliances are indeed intertwined, there seems to be no real justification for making the distinction between what alliances did in PA and what they did in PIA. As such, I'll continue to dispute the premise of your argument, because to be quite honest, you have none.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

The argument is not mine. The original statement was thus

I've stressed the part most relevant to this argument. If you still fail to understand I'd recommend getting someone to translate it into finnish for you and seeing if that helps.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Just because the original argument wasn't yours doesn't make it any less arbitrary, unless we hold the person who said it to have some kind of legitimacy in setting what the boundaries of any comparison should be. Further more, that wasn't his original statement, but a second-hand qualification of his statement, more of an admission of ignorance of anything which happened beyond the limits of his active playing career rather than trying to proclaim nothing else was valid fodder for discussion.

I'm at a loss as to what to advice you to do, as clearly I'm already communicating with you in your own language. Perhaps get someone to translate it into drunken Irish mumblings?

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

This page

This page

This page

All together say you are full of shit.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I think it's fairly safe to say that most of the sane members of this forum who aren't on bile-spewing rants against me right now because I almost managed to get them some incoming worthy of the name this round would recognise that the first sixteen rounds of planetarion are a pretty contiguous group. Of course it's arbitrary in the sense that any dividing line is arbitrary. It's quite clear he's saying that in his experience of planetarion rounds every winning alliance indulged in some betrayal. No, whether or not that is true is obviously up for debate, but alliances did in games which weren't planetarion is not relevant*.

No, it wasn't. The only other vaguely related post he has in the thread talks about blocking and divide and conquer (actually lok says this bit) in pre-pax rounds. Which isn't anything to do with "betrayal".

Of course it's not the be all and end all. I'm sure there are plenty of irrelevant and totally uninteresting things you could tell me about ********. Maybe even someone would enjoy reading them. But randomly interjecting about ******** into a line of discussion that's explicitly not about ********. Not exactly on the ball.

Swallowing your pride and accepting the fact you're wrong and probably hadn't even remembered kjeldoran's initial post until I pointed it out again would be a start. But don't worry. I'm not holding my breath here.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

This is going nowhere. I don't agree with you, not because of any personal feud, but because I honestly do not agree with you. If you can't believe this, then that's not my problem. End of the line, I don't agree that it makes any sense to limit the discussion to just the rounds Kj is knowledgeable of, especially when he did not aim to start a discussion about anything particular, but it was born spontaneously from his one-liner comment.

And fyi I was perfectly aware of kj's first/second post on the subject. It's only one page back, and I don't have the memory of a goldfish, after all.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Lol, so taking in entire FAnG to screw over your allies (Eclipse) just to secure a round win you find an "honourable" action? It's all legit etc, but sure isn't honourable.

And I know as FAnG we didn't always uphold our promises. In round 7 we played it fair and honourable, perhaps abit to much tbh.

You know aswell that attack "by accident" were a common used tactic to make sure your allies do not outgrow you, as an example.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Depends what you define as betraying. They can be very subtle or they can be outrageously obvious. Also most rounds back then, some alliances had some backdoor deals with neutral or even hostile alliances really.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

From the rounds I've played, 2 alliances excelled which were first Fury and later 1up. Which existed of the similar core.

I don't think any of the other alliances (can't judge about anything after r16) can be classed in the same range really. Yes, not even my own alliance hehe ;)

Legion came close, Dragons and Exi were good aswell but weren't better imo (hell, even FAnG won against Dragons one round). Though both Dragons as Fury were a privilege to play along with, as FAnG.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Yes

:D

:banana:

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I assume you mean r10 or something? See this is kind of the problem, I figure most of us were ignoring or idling at best in PA that round, and were focusing our real efforts on PIA. Regardless, the most impressive feats in attack and defense that I've witnessed were done by Dragons in PIA.

Besides, Fury had BlueArmy, how the heck can you rate that as a good alliance?

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I have (the memory of a goldfish that is) :-)

I didn't know my little post had so much impact. I merely described how I perceived politics in PA. Ofcourse that's limited to the first 15 rounds, as I didn't play the rounds after that.

Now, on topic of what I posted: Deceiving and manipulating your allies, NAP's or even enemies are common practices in politics. They can be very subtle (attack on wrong coords and player offline to recall, talk things over and smooth things up and no retribution as a result) or rather obvious (full frontal attack which you were supposedly napped etc) ... Even little things like telling your allies you'll attack alliance X and want their help but then rather limit the actual hits on alliance X, so they'd focus on your allies and not on you ...

That and many more are examples of common practices amongst allies throughout the rounds that I played. You could ask any alliance HC back then and they'll be able to give you examples.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Lol, tehe same endless discussion again. I couldn't give a rats arse how pathetic the competition is or how pathetic you want it people to perceive really. We won that round fair and square, by a massive advantage on score.

Also, what happened in PIA cannot be used as measurement with alliances in PA really. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed playing with Dragons and I have the utmost respect for Lizardking and his crew really. But that round, we were better.

Ohh and ... I always gotten along fine with BA, as with most Fury/1up BC's/officers (Morden, Germania, Focht, even Sid).

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I think I was idling in Dragons pa ally effort r10 also, aswell as Dragons in PIA. But like 90% there we played PIA and not planetarion. As planetarion back then was shit compared to PIA. This was the case r10, r10.5 r11 and r12.
PIA was just alot more active and competitive. PIA was for the hardcore gamers who hated the changes done in PAX. PAX was for the lazy fkers. :D

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Thanks dear.

By the way, do my memory serve me wrong coz I seem to remember Fang disbanded r10, which would pretty much invalidate the whole comparement?

What Tzu was saying all along, isn't 100% PA related coz Ðragons didn't play rounds after PaX in Planetarion as an alliance. The outcome of shifting to another game is a whole another story. Compared to pre-pia times (PA r6-10) we were only a small fraction of what came to be somewhat a memorable dynasty elsewhere. Moving pia-formed powerhouse back to PA was never a considerable option as what wish said before was pretty much thoughts for all of us.

Original PaX Alliance (as well as game) standards was all time low. Howling out or comparing alliances of r10 sounds more like a bad joke than anything else. I gave up planet playing after a few weeks and unfortunately many followed. Would've disappeared alltogether if not having some sorta responsibilities regarding my alliance. Afterwards having an option to move back "to the roots" aka ******** felt such a relief.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Your memory did serve you wrong indeed. I think FAnG disbanded (final one) in round 12. We did "disband" in round 8 and in round 9 aswell though, but not final ;-)

I meant round 10.5, so your memory appears to work perfectly :)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

With all due respect, whether you played that round in full strength or half arsed, it wouldn't have made much difference m8. Though I did enjoy our cooperation :-)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

With all due respect sir, afaik you disbanded having a big part of your comrads moving to Elysium and handing them a round win.

But hey, atleast in the very end your and FanG's efforts accomplished on "breaking" the opposite triad. If not on the field but in the forum, which I'm sure turns you on especially.

;)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Round 10 too actually.

As regards the whole ******** thing this is really boring. I'm sure you guys were fantastic and spent every waking moment possible playing pia and the fact most people would struggle to name another half decent alliance who played the game is a fantastic coincidence. But it's just really not relevant :(

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

I meant round 10.5 ... the round we won, while being allied with you guys. Round 10 was a fun round and we gave EET a good fight. Mind you, we didnt disband deliberatly. More like Webangel deliberatly giving out his login details (to get closed) and someone used it and disbanded the alliance ingame (as he was HC that round). After that, due to our round long war against Eclipse, most did join Elysium after them putting in the effort to gather them :-)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Correct, I meant round 10.5, not round 10. My bad.

I think the only rounds we didn't disband (or similar actions) were round 7 and round 10.5 :)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Que?

JBG: Geez, it's Friday man. Time to check (or step) outside of the window(s) ? :D

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Corrected your spelling a bit.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Memory = goldfish :-)
I'm mixing it all up now. We were indeed allied r10, but fought eachother r10.5 ...

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Errm.....

Did they legalise shroomz in Belgium? ;)
No offense kj, but as I stated already we DEPARTED after r10 so obviously I've no idea what your on about.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

This is from the PA Wiki. I was correct after all. Some of you guys played on as Phraktos and were allied to us together with Mistu.

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

R0fl!

That's as much being correct as if one claimed Fury hugged the trophy r11 when in fact it was 1up. Maybe with this logic we've won every round since "some of us" have played throughout the entire course of the game and even possibly being in a winning alliance each time.

Whoknows, or better yet who cares. :)

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Err...yeah, Prahktos had nothing to do with Dragons afaik. I have a vague recollection such an alliance existed, but I doubt it had any HC's or major portions of the membership in common with Dragons, as we were fully focused on PIA at the time.

Re: Ancient history
 

Phraktos had quite a few dragons players iirc, also kaifux was phraktos, unsure if he was hc, but anyway dragons can clearly then be the direct reason for the existence of exi, but not phraktos. Wait a minute...

Also Dragons as 'good' as they were will always be cheaters(section) as opposed to a powerhouse(lol).

Re: Ancient history
 

An eXcellent flamebate alki. Bravo and well done! ;)

The thread (whoever made it) doesn't belong to PA forums so suppose I go watch some footie.....

Re: Ancient history
 

Kaifux was LDK.

Dragons HC's were primarily Jurgen, lizardking, Gorgoroth, Biusa, LordN, MacTanzu, Titus, Tuhoaja and BaSSe. A few others also did short stints including me/Rhythm/WuMing/safe(?)/Berten(?).

Re: Ancient history
 

It's on AD, which is a forum to discuss alliances in PA. If you don't think a thread about Dragons belongs here, then you're proving JBG & co's point right.

Re: Ancient history
 

I see, my dragons/ldk history isnt good at all, afterall i was always on the opposing side :D

Re: Congratulations NFI
 

Yeah man. There were hundreds of them. So many that the game is still running strong played by fifteen thousand people at a level of intensity the world has never seen. Seriously, is there anyone who wasn't involved with dragons who'd like to put them forward as better than Legion, Fury and Xanadu? Because otherwise I'm going to request mz just deletes every post until someone does.