Weird Question
 

But does anyone else feel that adverts which show white and non-white people interacting as forced and patronising rather than being a sign of social cohesion?

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Can black people not sell their vegetables to white people?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Are you saying that black and white people don't actually want to interact and that this is why it is forced?

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When you've seen South African public television pretty much everything else looks natural by comparison.

But a lot of the time they're going the international angle which is why on Dell style adverts you always get a nice cross reference of Anglos/East Asians/etc.

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no.

but then i do not look at the skin colour of my friends so little seems 'out of place' or 'forced' to me

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Funnily enough some people do. Whether it's people campaigning for more ethnic diversity in Eastenders

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,,1640970,00.html

or specifically looking for people based on factors other than talent

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=338662005

this is the first example I could find but football commentator John Barnes (who is black) probably only has the job because of his skin colour. He most certainly did not get it through his skills as a commentator (he has none) or his footballing credentials (he has none).

I'm not sure that this purposeful effort to get more non-white people on tv is a good thing. Sure it's good in the respect that there is more diversity but it seems to be that skin colour is becoming more important than the quality of the person.

But maybe I'm just a paranoid cynic.

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Wasn't John Barnes quite good as a footballer?

I don't remember (or care) but I seem to remember everyone in my school supporting Liverpool (at the end of 80's) and they all said he was good. But they could have been lying ofc.

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Yes, my bad. I recall making the same mistake when I first made this argument.

I retract that statement about john Barnes.

I would like to replace it with the following statement:

John Barnes is a shit commentator and does not deserve to have the position. Whilst the colour of his skin was not the predominant factor in his appointment it most certainly did not hinder him.

If I ever see Rio Ferdinand commentating on football professionally shall have to kill someone.

I believe (based on little in the way of actual evidence) that there is a desire to show how multicultural we all are. It's an attempt t address the problems by papering over them.

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That's because all your friends are white, probably.

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or a fool

he was a hero when I was a boy. Gary Lineaker was as well.

true freedom from racism means freedom from worrying about skin tone.

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and all of yours are bald and cancerous, probably

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I agree but I don't believe this exists in society and especially not in tv.

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what you mean is that it does not exist in you.

that is why you have an issue, why you feel uncomfortable, why you even mention the topic.

I am not famous for my patience and you test mine

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I never said it did, but I wouldn't let it stop me (or make me, for that matter) from employing someone should I run a business etc...

No, I mention the topic as I feel these attempts to show racial diversity are crumbs thrown to the minorities to move focus from the predominance of white people in these media.

I really hope I don't upset you. I might end up with a week-long ban. :o

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Most interactions on advertisements seem forced* to me. Racial composition aside.

*unrealistic

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yeah I do think the adverts are forced, and cleverly focused. I used to worry about it, but then I noticed that Black Entertainment Television (BET) has commercials, with ONLY black people in them, Car commercials, cigars, candy, toothpaste gum, EVERYTHING. Which as sad as it may sound, is nearly impossible to accomplish (all black cast) unless it was focused to be that way.

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I think the intentions of the marketing companies is less about subverting you into social cohesion and much more about not accidentally excluding a segment of society that could buy the product/service.


Whats south african television like? Blacks on blondes?!

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I think possibly you read too much into it. I'd say the case presented that it is to grab interest from a broad segment of consumers is most likely.

When ever I have seen these ads what little I do notice of the mixed ethnicity I put down to the cultural quirks of the region that advert was made in. It is probably more forced in some areas to have a single race then simply going with the existing culteral blend.

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When I see diverse commercials, it seems that they subtly play on racial strereotypes of the different ethnicities.

For instance: (in US) the Washington Mutual commercials have an 'African American' middle class guy in khakis and a blue shirt talking to a 'Bankers Pen' of upper class 'White' men in full suits with white shirts and ties.

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Black people are allowed in commercials these days?!

I never really noticed what you said tho, i'm past that whole taboo thing that you might have
Sometimes they add a bit of cultural flavour to someone's role, nothing more

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I don't think he's saying they're doing it so we think we're living in a utopia but for other reasons - which might include desire to sell to the entire market, etc.

Overall though this discussion reminds me of what Michael Moore said in one of his books (I can't remember which) about Friends. A lot of people complained that there were no prominent black characters on Friends but Moore said that this was actually fairly realistic. If you have a group of white middle class friends living in New York then they probably wouldn't have a token black friend, so why bother lying in your TV shows and pretending they do? Same with Seinfeld, although there are a couple of black characters none of them are friends of the main characters in any real sense (I read somewhere that despite being the most popular show in America at one point, Seinfeld wasn't even in the top 50 most popular shows among blacks in the US). So the point is that adverts do try and portray some sort of racial mix (for the reasons you mention, and others) and in doing so often come across as fairly unrealistic.
Africanists are not interested in mixing with European degenerates one would imagine. That seems to be much of a white man fantasy given the market for interracial porn in the US. *shrug*

But no, SA TV shows (especially soaps & adverts) from what I saw seemed to be in complete denial of the economic realities of the country. So a lot of their shows (often with all black casts) don't have any poor people in them whatsoever or even mention their could be poor people. Imagine Dynasty with black actors and where people go from speaking Xhosi to English in every second scene. Where there were white people then there was never any racism (it was a bit like with the white guy in Desmonds).

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I can kind of see ASG's point.

I've seen lots of adverts where whites are the only race portrayed (fair enough, seeing as most people in the UK are white).
I've also seen lots of adverts with interaction with whites and other races.
I can't think of any adverts I've seen that portray ONE race (black/asian etc) and no others.

I mean I don't pay much attention to it so I doubt I'd remember it anyway.

A better example of this ludicrous racial equality would be all the exam papers featuring questions now with "Rajdul and Zaaaiiiiiberoo" and noone called any "normal" names, even though most of the UK DO have "normal" names.

Although I do rememeber a Maths question ages ago from when I was doing my GCSEs that featured Mario and Luigi :cool:

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Peter Schmeichel was employed as a pundit by the BBC and was truly terrible. David Pleat still commentates and I've never heard him do a decent job, ever. John Barnes is hardly the worst around, so making a race issue out of this seems to be a tad simplistic of you.

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On the other hand, Brad Friedel :up:

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I would like to apologise to any John Barnes fans out there. I was wrong. 100% wrong. I have no idea about the quality of his football punditry and his footballing record is very good. Some of my points regardeing him may be valid but that is pure coincidence.

this was all a simple mix-up.

I was thinking of Robbie Earle. His football career can hardly be said to be dazzling and his punditry is so appaling that it makes me want cut off my ears and douse myself in petrol al-la Resiviour Dogs.

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I didn't really pay attention to it until this thread. And after thinking about it, I don't think they're forced.

Maybe you never liked people of color that's why it makes you uncomfortable to watch these commercials.

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"super caley go ballistic celtic are atrocious"?

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What's your point?

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In the past the BBC has preferred presenters, announcers and the like with the received pronunciation. Now they're either trying to sell to, serve, or exploit the image of those crazy celts. It's all a load of horseshit really, talent or no talent.

Again I suppose a mediocre programme like EastEnders probably should reflect the mediocrity of life in London's east end, but again the people that are concerned by any lack of correlation here are quite spectacularly missing the point.

What is that the first example of that you could find; a black person with little talent in their chosen field who had denied somebody else the opportunity of filling their position? Speculation that he was 'probably only given the job because of his skin colour' is truly appalling.

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ASG is clearly a man who's not heard the Anfield Rap

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I find it very difficult to believe that out of all the retired footballers he (Robbie Earle) was the best one available.

Also, when you have a three man panel (excluding the host) 99.9% of time you have two white guys and a token minority. You don't see all-white panels and you most certainly do not see all-non-white panels.

this is my point. I think that is highly likely that Robbie Earle has his job as to not alienate a large chunk of the population. I would argue that it's more important to appear to be seen as non-racist than have the best man for the job. this can be for reason to do with both the economic and image consequences of having an all-white panel.

Now, this is not some tirade against non-whites coming over here and taknig our jobs or any of that bulshit. I'm not saying I care what colour the panel are, as long as they are competant. I don't think this country will see a entire non-white panel for a very long time and that is a bad thing and demonstrates the unfortunate level that skin colour still permeates British culture today.

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Robbie Earle played in an iconic Wimbledon side and the first Jamaican side to qualify for the World Cup, and has since remained in the public eye through a number of media positions. He has the the right CV. It's also worth considering that the talent you're critiqueing is subject to personal taste. Most people don't seem to have a problem with miserable Mark Lawrenson or Ian 'Ingerland' Wright, but they're not my chosen flavour.

Having said that, I can appreciate that it's not inconceivable that Robbie Earle was employed partly because the ITV directors wanted to attract a section of the population that they thought would identify with him. This, however, is the culture we live in and I've no doubt when Robbie is replaced it will be by a man is expected to boost ITV's ratings the most*, whatever that means, rather than the 'best' pundit. It's all part of a greater problem; that we allow our values be defined by, well, everybody. It is unfortunate that everybody has a tendency to be overly concerned by appearance and often finds itself prey to some fairly suspicious beliefs.

Having just re-worded an awful lot of what you have already said, I suppose it's only fair that I should try and pull it all together and explain myself a little. A coherent point is required! Though I think you've hit upon a fairly important topic, I don't think it's fair to corner the race issue independently. If we want to tackle the issue, it'd be best starting afresh rather than trying to fix it within the present system. As is typical of me, I'm not sure I'm able to suggest a suitable approach. :confused:



*I've been lead to believe that this is how ITV remains profitable. Beats me.

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and the crims in The Bill are hardly ever black! whatsthatabout?