Planetarion Forums - Change of buddypack system

Planetarion Forums (https://pirate.planetarion.com/index.php)

- Planetarion Suggestions (https://pirate.planetarion.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95)

- - Change of buddypack system (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201111)

Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandvold (Post 3248937)

I posted something about this during the weekend, but deleted the post since ppl was just discussing things that had happened 2-3 rounds back.

Maybe it's time to try getting the discussion going again.

Ult is at the moment a surperior alliance then the others. However I think the alliances do a big mistake every round, which ulitimatly leads to the scenario you decribed. This round almost every alliance forted, and most of them had fort agreements with everyone. This is something Ult is great at and have proven many times that they benefit from such tactics.

If you think you can def galraids better then ult, and at the same time land more attacks i understand why you would fort and have a fort agreement with them. If you don't think this is possible and you would like to go for the win then fort agreements helps ult get their lead. If nobody except Ult forted it would be much more difficult for them, and i doubt we would see the early round lead as they got this round. So that some people are complaing that Ult is to good and it ruins the game when ppl play to their tactics is a bit stupid if you ask me.

Also like this round it was almost impossible to galraid without pissing an alliance of, and everyone was roiding the same random gals. Which makes the game extremley boring for the guys that end up in these gals.

I think it would be interesting either to remove bp's for one round (doubt that will happen), or decrease bp limit to two or three players and put two bp's together. Would create a new dynamic to the game.

This started as an observation from AD, but as booji mentioned it probably should be in here.

This round pretty much every alliance did fort. This led to a very static univers and same few gals being hit all the time. I also think it's hard for new players (or returning ones) to find a place in a gals, or they get constant inc.

Personally I would like to try one round without BP's alltogether, but I think to many will object to that, so a different suggestion is having BP's of two or three planets. Then you combine two bp's that make out the core of a gal. If we base each gal on only one BP there will be to few players in each gal.

I think it would be interesting to try out, I'm not sure that players will get exiled less in this way, but maybe time to try something new.

Re: Change of buddypack system

I rather dislike the notion of changing the game mechanics solely to harm one alliance. :/

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3248949)

I rather dislike the notion of changing the game mechanics solely to harm one alliance. :/

Personally I don't mind if Ult win or lose. But the problem as I see it is that everyone is forted. So if you hit one gal you are almost at war.

Check through the uni atm, almost every gal that do good is a fort.

If that's an aim that we only want forts we might do private gals. It's almost impossible to do good as a gal if you don't fort.

Re: Change of buddypack system

I would like the bp system removed...if not permanantly at least for 1 round as a test. Reasons:

1. There is little community spirit and this would help bring it back.
2. Stops hcs from fencing gals.
3. Makes political allegiances more open.
4. Should mean that targetting a gal isnt a declaration of war for 1 evening!

Re: Change of buddypack system

Indeed it should be possibole to try out some new BP system.
This fort thing is getting too old, id rather have max BP size of 2 planets, and keep mixing 2 or 3 BPs together to give a spin to the current direction of the game

Re: Change of buddypack system

Knee jerk reaction here and i didnt give it much thought but how about making BP's 2-3 planets and reducing galaxies to 5 planets.

That will eliminate forts for a lot of alliances right off the bat. It will also make it when you target a galaxy in a gal raid its not an automatic start of hostilities.

Now I know some of you will say that its not possible because the BP's govern the size of the universe and the PA team doesnt have the time or resources to change how the exile formula works. I get that hence my initial comment regarding knee jerk reaction.

2 mins of thinking I see some stumbling blocks but I think the benefit outweighs the limitation.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDrax (Post 3248956)

Did you read the suggestion? That's why limiting bp's to 2 or 3, then mix two and two bp's. Gals wouldn't be smaller then. Same size as today.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandvold (Post 3248957)

Did you read the suggestion? That's why limiting bp's to 2 or 3, then mix two and two bp's. Gals wouldn't be smaller then. Same size as today.

Yeah I read it but trust me people will find ways to create their super galaxies. I have seen it time and time again where the same 4-6 friends end up in the same galaxy even though 2/3 of them didnt BP together. It takes time and patience but they land together always if they want to. So mixing BPs will not eliminate the fort situation that was indicated as being the problem in this thread.

Whoops fixed spelling mistake

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3248949)

I rather dislike the notion of changing the game mechanics solely to harm one alliance. :/

I agree. That being said...

I've gone random for more rounds than I can remember, mostly because I'm a habitual player. I've met some great people and actually ended up in some really great galaxies despite being "furniture" ;) Couple rounds ago, we (they) were top 5 and was actually the second time I rolled into their galaxy. Still had the contacts on my WhatsApp. Kudos to Daltons for letting me stay.

This round I exiled into (and out of) a galaxy full of well known players who I never played with, but were great folks. Out of that one, into a galaxy with some other well known players and one very old PA friend.

Onto the "that being said..." part. I PM'd BB one night after a few rum drinks, just to see what all the fuss on the forums was about. We had a nice conversation, threw some good ideas around, and was certainly worth the 45 minutes or so I picked his brain. Exiled into a galaxy with him this round, and couldn't be happier. Great group of folks.

I'd be a big fan of random rounds. This is supposed to be a social game, so be social. Get to know your "enemies" and you'll probably be friends with them at the end. If there is any new players at all, help them. People you thought you "hated on the internet" might be really" good people, when you're on the same team. I've never played with a lot of PA greats, and I'm sure I could learn something. If I could, so could others.

Rant over, paging mz back to this thread for reasons.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDrax (Post 3248958)

Yeah I read it but trust me people will find ways to create their super galaxies. I have seen it time and time again where the same 4-6 friends end up in the same galaxy even though 2/3 of them didnt BP together. It takes time and patients but they land together always if they want to. So mixing BPs will not eliminate the fort situation that was indicated as being the problem in this thread.

Not those few gals I want to stop, there is always ways to go around a system.
However now you pretty much have to fort. At least it seems like most alliances seems to think so. Put 5 guys in a gal, make fort avoidances and bash on the same 30% of the universe. Yea you could make fort avoidances with 3+ players as well, but will make it harder, and I think the game would be more enjoyable for the random galaxies.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochese (Post 3248959)

*blurp*

I am with you. Out of the last 15-20 rounds I played I can count on 1 hand the number of times I BPed (I think). I enjoy going random and seeing where I end up and meeting new people. Its quite fun

Re: Change of buddypack system

Since I do have the data I may as well share it..

Counting galaxies that have at least 5 members and obviously excluding C200.

Fort = 3 planets in same alliance:

Code:

| Total | Forted | Non forted | --------|-------|--------|------------| PT 23 | 67 | 47 | 20 | PT 500 | 67 | 56 | 11 | PT 1082 | 67 | 55 | 12 | --------|-------|--------|------------| PT 23: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alliance | # members | # forts | # members in fort | % members in fort | avg # planet in fort | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Faceless | 47 | 9 | 34 | 72.34% | 3.78 | | p3nguins | 44 | 7 | 28 | 63.64% | 4.00 | | RainbowS | 50 | 8 | 31 | 62.00% | 3.88 | | NewDawn | 41 | 6 | 22 | 53.66% | 3.67 | | Black Widow | 15 | 2 | 8 | 53.33% | 4.00 | | Conspiracy | 50 | 6 | 24 | 48.00% | 4.00 | | Ultores | 39 | 5 | 18 | 46.15% | 3.60 | | HEROES | 13 | 1 | 4 | 30.77% | 4.00 | | Howling Rain | 33 | 2 | 6 | 18.18% | 3.00 | | Norsemen | 36 | 1 | 6 | 16.67% | 6.00 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PT 1082: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alliance | # members | # forts | # members in fort | % members in fort | avg # planet in fort | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Ultores | 59 | 11 | 46 | 77.97% | 4.18 | | p3nguins | 50 | 8 | 36 | 72.00% | 4.50 | | Faceless | 58 | 10 | 41 | 70.69% | 4.10 | | RainbowS | 59 | 9 | 36 | 61.02% | 4.00 | | Conspiracy | 59 | 7 | 31 | 52.54% | 4.43 | | VGN | 10 | 1 | 5 | 50.00% | 5.00 | | NewDawn | 60 | 7 | 29 | 48.33% | 4.14 | | HEROES | 16 | 1 | 4 | 25.00% | 4.00 | | Howling Rain | 44 | 3 | 9 | 20.45% | 3.00 | | Norsemen | 35 | 2 | 6 | 17.14% | 3.00 | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fort = 4 planets in same alliance:

Code:

| Total | Forted | Non forted | --------|-------|--------|------------| PT 23 | 67 | 33 | 34 | PT 500 | 67 | 48 | 19 | PT 1082 | 67 | 45 | 22 | --------|-------|--------|------------| PT 23: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alliance | # members | # forts | # members in fort | % members in fort | avg # planet in fort | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | p3nguins | 44 | 6 | 25 | 56.82% | 4.17 | | Black Widow | 15 | 2 | 8 | 53.33% | 4.00 | | Faceless | 47 | 6 | 25 | 53.19% | 4.17 | | RainbowS | 50 | 6 | 25 | 50.00% | 4.17 | | Conspiracy | 50 | 5 | 21 | 42.00% | 4.20 | | NewDawn | 41 | 3 | 13 | 31.71% | 4.33 | | HEROES | 13 | 1 | 4 | 30.77% | 4.00 | | Ultores | 39 | 2 | 9 | 23.08% | 4.50 | | Norsemen | 36 | 1 | 6 | 16.67% | 6.00 | | Howling Rain | 33 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PT 1082: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alliance | # members | # forts | # members in fort | % members in fort | avg # planet in fort | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | p3nguins | 50 | 8 | 36 | 72.00% | 4.50 | | Ultores | 59 | 8 | 37 | 62.71% | 4.62 | | Faceless | 58 | 7 | 32 | 55.17% | 4.57 | | RainbowS | 59 | 7 | 30 | 50.85% | 4.29 | | VGN | 10 | 1 | 5 | 50.00% | 5.00 | | Conspiracy | 59 | 6 | 28 | 47.46% | 4.67 | | NewDawn | 60 | 6 | 26 | 43.33% | 4.33 | | HEROES | 16 | 1 | 4 | 25.00% | 4.00 | | Howling Rain | 44 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | | Norsemen | 35 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 0 | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I think forts are a problem? Yes they are.. The only non forted galaxies are barely worth hitting..
And some alliances do see hitting one of their forts as a declaration of war...

Re: Change of buddypack system

3 and 4 are barely forts, imo. A full BP gets you that many already.

I'd be interested in seeing 5 and 6.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Well obviously what ever Bram said im agreeing with.

PA has changed a lot since the introductions of BPs.
Its not like everyone has 2-3 people they always BP with, and as ive experinced as being HCs all over the place for the last few years is that its impossibole to help members out with a BP unless you want to fort em.
As bram said, that results in every alliance out there forting, and "random gal raiding" is none existent.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3248963)

3 and 4 are barely forts, imo. A full BP gets you that many already.

I'd be interested in seeing 5 and 6.

Thats usualy what ive been using, and what ive seen, as the numbers for the fort avoidances, so what ever Bram says is what you should be counting as forts.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3248949)

I rather dislike the notion of changing the game mechanics solely to harm one alliance. :/

I agree.

But I dont think this would harm Ult over any other alliance. It would simply be a change in how everyone does things and I see no reason why ult should not adapt to that as well as anyone else.

I think the biggest merit of the proposal is that it is an easy change. BP sizes are not sacrosanct - indeed they regularly get changed so an alteration to smaller bps is probably something pretty easy to do. For all it is a pretty small change it could have a big impact.

I think both suggestions made; merging two small bps, or just having one small bp have benefits, and I would prefer either to having the current setup every round.

Merging two bps seems to me the more conservative choice; galaxies would be a similar size to now. They would be more difficult to make forts out of. However as RexDrax says some galaxies are sure to end up being the same powerhouses as usual. It would still have advantages:
1, mixing up alliances so creating new political dynamics.
2, encouraging people out of their safe bps!
3, stop it being the same few unforted gals that take all the hits at the start of the round.

RexDrax's suggestion of one small bp per gal is a bigger change, and one that would need greater thought and discussion as the the consequences. Presumably with a bp of 2 galaxies would likely only be 4 or 5 strong. This makes them much less effective as a fallback defensive position. Some benefits:
1, many more galaxies.
2, forts would exist but would be very different due to their small size.
3, as with above this would create new political dynamics.
However there are also more obvious disadvantages such as it would clearly be bad news for anyone who is not in an alliance and plays for their galaxy.

Re: Change of buddypack system

I am absolutely in favour of smaller BPs and thereby more galaxies - on more than one occasion I've yelled at PA Team for increasing it to 4/5. For the current state of the game, that's too big. Full random or 2 man BPs would be a much better basis for the round, with more variety in a galaxy's allegiances which would lead to more varied attacks and roidswapping. More action is always good. I often hear people say "if I can't bp with my mates, I won't play", but to me, an alliance is where you play with friends, a galaxy is where you meet new people and try to make new friends.

That said, there is still the issue of a broken exile system. Galaxies need to have a better way of dealing with people unwilling/unable to contribute. This round, after being forced to use our two galaxy exiles, we were 'stuck' with 3 scanners and one wallet planet. I'd suggest giving galaxies more exiles, but making them more costly.

Speaking of wallets (4:3), it's a perfect example of how the system can still be abused, though it would be much less of an issue if we had twice the amount of galaxies.

Perhaps, if we go for 2 man BPs or full random, we should reintroduce disbanding galaxies through a majority vote?

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrikc (Post 3248967)

Perhaps, if we go for 2 man BPs or full random, we should reintroduce disbanding galaxies through a majority vote?

Certainly something to think about I would imagine.

Re: Change of buddypack system

The reason galaxies can no longer disband is because it caused unbounded growth in the number of planets per galaxy.

Re: Change of buddypack system

This is the first round p3nguins did forts.

Politically it has been a breeze in comparison to previous rounds where we spread out. I've mentioned before we end up having to do full naps if we spread as it's the only way to keep alliances off you. These always were done ingame and gave a few of you the impression we napped rhe universe when we didn't. Do I have less agreements as a fort ally? No but they are certainly not going to be in game for all to see.

P3ng will likely continue forts whilst its what the majority do. Purely because it's so easy and makes life much easier for politics.

My favourite 2 rounds of pa were when we had public galaxies. 20 planets I think we had in one gal and it was great running a mini alliance.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Off topic, but probably the best thread in a while.

Great points all around.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3248969)

The reason galaxies can no longer disband is because it caused unbounded growth in the number of planets per galaxy.

Less of a problem if the starting galaxies are tiny. Iirc Galaxy sizes about doubled over a round. This was a problem when that meant gals were getting up to 16/17 members as they became difficult to hit. It would however be less of an issue starting with four and ending up with 8 or 9 as that is about the normal size now.

There could presumably be breaks to reduce the speed at which galaxies disband. Such as having to be in the bottom 10% for 72 ticks. Or a 72 tick cool down on a vote during which voters can change their vote.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munkee (Post 3248970)

I know p3n usually don't fort, and I totally get your point about making it easier. But as I see it, when all alliances except norse and HR got over half their people forted then most the playerbase plays in forts. We're not far from just running alliance wars then, were the unallied players is there as farms.

Is it good for the game? I don't think so. So that's why I suggested changing the BP limit, because I think most alliances will continue to fort as long as it's possible.

Re: Change of buddypack system

DATA

The first time galaxy disbanding was widely available was round 25, when it was 'simplified'. It was removed after round 30. During those rounds, galaxy disbanding worked out as follows:

Code:

|-------+------------------+--------------------|

| Round | Average gal size | BP planets per gal |

|-------+------------------+--------------------|

|    25 |            19.01 | 5 + 1              |

|    26 |                - | 4 + 2              |

|    27 |            16.07 | 4 + 2              |

|    28 |            19.29 | 4 + 2              |

|    29 |            18.78 | 4 + 2              |

|    30 |            23.58 | 4 + 2              |

|-------+------------------+--------------------|

I skipped r26 because the PA history page for that round contains havoc data, so I only have the top 100 for that round.

Unfortunately, I have no way of telling what the average tick 12 galaxy size was during those rounds. However, average gal size at the end of r31 was 13.79. There's 2 additional pieces of data we can use Even now, the number of planets per gal grows by about 20% during the round. The number of new signups was significantly higher back then than it is now: during r25-r30, 49% of the uni was not in an alliance <=40 players, compared to 40% the last 5 rounds. A reasonable estimate would be that starting gal sizes for those rounds was 10.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Well everyone in p3ng at the very least knows I'm 100% against forts. However, last round butcher and others spent a lot of their time moaning about the amount of naps p3nguins had.

In reality, p3ng had to have ingame, visible naps in order to survive. We cant do fort deals where we have no forts and we cant do 3max or 4max planets as it just benefits the fort allies again. So for us being spread out the option is full nap or nothing (just about). As I posted in the last round who wins type thread p3nguins would fort this round to prove a point.

In my opinion point is proven as more of you are starting to see the issues with fort allies. It does not mean I agree forting is right, but I have to say my life has been much easier and lazier by being a fort ally than the work I had to put into the game when we were spread out. With that being said I'm happy with how p3ng performs in both scenarios but the way in which incoming occurs is harder.

In a spread out ally you will receive standard incoming for the first 100-200 ticks, after that your incoming increases (we had nights of 100+ inc from random raiding) up until the point of alliance wars/blocks forming. This is usually somewhere around tick 700. After that your incoming drops to say 40 a night or less. After that the only times you see inc is when there are people dropping out of wars and going back to "gal raiding" or if you are part of the war and being specifically targeted.

My experience of forts this round is standard inc first 100 or so ticks until you get some deals in place. After that unless you are part of a war the most you see is 40 inc a night. This then reduces if you are not part of block war, or increases in short spikes if you are on the receiving end.

Overall though, forted allies who sit out and just randomly take chances at other allies will always out grow those who are spread out. P3nguins previously lost out on this when we were spread as you could never grow value during the first half of the round. When it then came to wars you were having to deal with targetting plus those allies random raiding.

Re: Change of buddypack system

We have discussed this alot in norse.

I would love to see a fully random (maybe free?) round. Send out a couple of mails to old signups and see if we can get 750 planets or so.

If we cant do fully random, the option of adding two bps together would be entertaining. Ingal wars used to be fun! :)

Re: Change of buddypack system

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't bp's always been 4-5 when the galaxy size itself has decreased from 20+ to 10-11?

I wouldn't mind a lower bp or even full random round

Re: Change of buddypack system

So basicakly, no one has said they are against the removal of bps for a round and most want smaller galaxies/bps at least.

Admins take note...

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krypton (Post 3248998)

So basicakly, no one has said they are against the removal of bps for a round and most want smaller galaxies/bps at least.

Admins take note...

As far as i can see that is for the best....I have already had pm's about this and not playing because of this; so probably less players under a no bp system.
Note: I can't comment on galaxy sizes..I wouldn't know what effect that would have,....

Re: Change of buddypack system

If we were doing a random round I would prefer it to be in a Christmas speedgame with cluster alliances.

I'd be happier to mix BPs but I'm struggling to understand - alliances go on their own or maybe with another friendly alliance in a BP, unless things have changed drastically. Forcing two BPs together will generally end up with mixed galaxies where you're going to have to come to some agreement and potentially force NAPs. Surely pure alliance galaxies allow for the potential for more war without forced NAPs? Am I missing something?

Re: Change of buddypack system

I am pretty sure the Christmas speedround does not have the same problems the main game has. The discussion here would be totally irrelevant to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster (Post 3249138)

I'd be happier to mix BPs but I'm struggling to understand - alliances go on their own or maybe with another friendly alliance in a BP, unless things have changed drastically. Forcing two BPs together will generally end up with mixed galaxies where you're going to have to come to some agreement and potentially force NAPs. Surely pure alliance galaxies allow for the potential for more war without forced NAPs? Am I missing something?

Not been in a playing galaxy for a while? ;) No being in mixed galaxies does not lead to naps - I have seen no evidence of this happening regularly. Indeed one much more often sees mixed galaxies with two sides targeting different halves of the galaxy - see 3:1 this round as a good example. Yes in theory pure alliance galaxies make wars cleaner. In practice though people dont like wars as they are almost always damaging to your alliance in the long term if they last more than a day or two. As a result having pure alliance galaxies simply forces all the attacks when there are no wars onto the few galaxies that are mixed. This is because every alliance wants to avoid annoying the other alliances and knows hitting such a pure galaxy is a shortcut to finding yourself in a war which is a distinctly uncertain and therefore unwelcome prospect.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Out of interest, how many players take part in the "Christmas speedgame"?

(I've always considered it to be a total waste of time and have never played it).

Re: Change of buddypack system

i totally agree with the initial author of this thread and with a lot of things others did contribute

a universe full of forted galaxies is good for easy politics, good for maintaining growth for the pros, making waring alliance x (whos also forted) "easier" etc...
The "new" or "less dedicated" occasional player is been driven away from the game, cause he most likely sits in one of those few random gals, getting constantly raided as they are at firstl easier to hit (sandmans will proove those statistics) and secondly you dont annoy any alliance while you hit that gall
So the few galaxies not beeing ult,fl,norse,p3n, ct, bows, hr or nd forts get consistenly bashed to pieces. Night after night (specially after tick200-300).

Yes there are not too many "new" players - but should we not give the few occasionals, stumbeling over www.planetarion.com - the chance to enjoy this game we all love/hate so much ? I think we should!

Even though i would love playing a full random game, i dont think it would solve the "exiling until we meet who we want, be a fort - issue".
It would be only a lil improvement.

Why not hardcode an alliance limit for each galaxy. Say 3 planets of the same tag max.
If a HR-planet exiles he can only be put in gals with 2 or less HR planets etc.
If a new recruit in a gal with 3 HR applies to HR, they cant take him in, unless they'd remove one of his HR galmates from the tag.

my 2 cents and 50 pennies
cheers m0

Sorry for picking on HR here ( <3 Bram )

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US (Post 3249235)

Why not hardcode an alliance limit for each galaxy. Say 3 planets of the same tag max.
If a HR-planet exiles he can only be put in gals with 2 or less HR planets etc.
If a new recruit in a gal with 3 HR applies to HR, they cant take him in, unless they'd remove one of his HR galmates from the tag.

This is an interesting idea. It would solve the issue with politics while still allowing those who want to play with friends to stay together. What it does not solve is the tendency towards a couple of super elite galaxies as this could still happen so long as the players were from different alliances. However as Mz mentioned elsewhere no one has proposed a good solution for this particular problem and we have been trying to reduce the chances of this happening for years.

So I'm pro this suggestion too!

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US (Post 3249235)

The "new" or "less dedicated" occasional player is been driven away from the game, cause he most likely sits in one of those few random gals, getting constantly raided as they are at firstl easier to hit (sandmans will proove those statistics) and secondly you dont annoy any alliance while you hit that gall
So the few galaxies not beeing ult,fl,norse,p3n, ct, bows, hr or nd forts get consistenly bashed to pieces. Night after night (specially after tick200-300).

In round 65, 5 of the 10 most attacked galaxies were in the top 10 on score, with 2 more in the top 20. In round 64, the 4 galaxies with the most incs were the numbers 1 through 4, with 2 more of the 10 most attacked in the top 10, and another 2 in the top 20. In round 63, 4 of the 10 most attacked galaxies were in the top 10, with another 5 in the top 20.

Taking those 30 galaxies together, that's 50% top 10, 30% top 11-20, and just 20% the 40ish galaxies ranked lower.

What you see on sandmans is not constant incomings. What you see on sandmans is lack of defense. They get relatively few incs, and still get roided.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3249257)

The numbers you refer to are fleets sent from my understanding. And obviously you Need to send more fleets at any top gal, then compared to a lower gal. So those total fleets sent numbers proove nothin.

I wont deny that the lower gals suffer from getting defence though. If you ever tried bcing in an alliance forced to avoid hostilities, you know youd pick gals without Alliance concentrations in them.

So as a result anyone above 400 or 500 roids in those gals will recieve incs until those roids are gone. Usually this takes a lot less fleets then roiding a top50 planet. So yeah in the end those gals will see was less fleets sent at them.

Re: Change of buddypack system

The bigger problem for these small galaxies is that the incs they get are all front loaded at the beginning of the round. They are the main targets while alliances are trying to avoid irritating each other. Things then calm down once the alliance wars begin, but by then it is too late, many of the players have gone inactive making the galaxy dead... even if the alliance wars end they are unlikely to become targets again so wont be the most hit galaxies.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US (Post 3249269)

Actually, no. You're the one making declarative statements without backing them up with a shred of evidence. The only person here with anything to prove is you.

But, since I'm in a good mood, here's some more numbers.

An average of 366 fleets incoming for the middle 27 galaxies (21-47) makes 1 galraid a week (assuming 3 waves per planet, 1 fleet per wave), plus a few random incs thrown into the mix on the other nights.

Hell, unlike what I said earlier, their defense is far from shit: 358 fleets, both ingal and from the alliance. Assuming it takes 2 def fleets to cover an attack fleet, those 358 fleets cover 48% of all attackers. That's obviously not great, but losing ~1.46 waves a week is extremely manageable. Even Ultores only cover 65%.

These galaxies also send out an average of 384 attack fleets each, which is actually more than they have incoming.

So, I stand by my point. These 258 middle-class planets are not "constantly raided" nor are they "bashed to pieces". The numbers just don't bear that out.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Your just throwing numbers around mz. This may look like you know your shit. Your good at that.
For me its just numbers

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3249277)

Here are some more numbers: (also pasted on pastebin: http://pastebin.com/raw/UhVgZdhM )

Number of hostile fleets to each galaxy.
Order of galaxies is based on galaxy ranking
The galaxy is taken at time of launch (i.e. if the target is in galaxy 1:1 when the hostile fleet is launched and then later in the round exiled then the fleet is still counted as galaxy 1:1)

Code:

Day 0 - 49: 1 - 1177: 1177 ticks



| Galaxy | # days no incs | # days 1-5 incs | # days 6+ incs || 0 | 1 | 2  | 3  | 4  | 5  | 6  | 7  | 8  | 9  | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49  |

|--------|----------------|-----------------|----------------||---|---|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-----|

| 4:8    | 13            | 16              | 21            ||  |  | 9  | 2  | 2  |    | 26 |    |    | 17 | 4  |    | 3  | 11 | 45 | 1  | 2  | 3  | 9  | 1  |    | 2  |    | 1  | 1  | 11 | 1  |    |    | 1  | 10 |    |    | 1  | 30 | 4  | 31 | 43 | 26 | 7  | 96 | 11 | 8  | 16 | 4  | 53 | 29 | 6  |    | 6  |

| 3:1    | 4              | 15              | 31            ||  |  | 16 | 47 | 2  | 12 | 2  | 1  | 8  | 5  | 2  | 31 | 19 | 29 | 1  | 32 | 2  |    | 2  | 5  | 1  | 15 | 3  | 12 | 45 |    | 40 | 2  | 29 | 2  | 15 | 1  | 18 | 32 | 20 | 25 | 22 | 49 | 88 | 4  | 43 | 28 | 15 | 64 | 42 | 45 | 35 | 9  | 7  | 42  |

| 1:7    | 7              | 24              | 19            ||  |  | 10 | 1  | 3  | 16 | 3  | 7  | 1  | 5  | 2  | 1  | 5  | 34 | 22 | 23 |    |    | 10 | 4  | 5  | 5  | 1  |    | 1  | 18 | 1  | 9  | 2  | 7  |    | 1  | 38 | 2  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 2  | 1  | 14 | 2  | 46 | 23 |    | 50 | 35 | 12 | 31 | 5  | 27  |

| 4:3    | 6              | 14              | 30            ||  |  | 3  | 9  | 3  | 1  | 2  | 3  |    | 4  | 1  | 2  | 1  | 2  |    | 1  | 8  | 5  |    | 10 | 2  | 2  | 8  | 71 | 86 |    | 11 | 34 | 34 | 39 | 20 | 24 | 29 | 47 | 28 | 44 | 25 | 22 | 19 | 21 | 37 | 32 | 24 | 33 | 24 | 48 | 12 | 22 | 48 | 73  |

| 6:2    | 5              | 12              | 33            ||  |  | 1  | 6  | 12 | 13 | 5  |    |    | 31 | 1  | 7  | 20 | 11 | 1  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 5  | 46 | 22 | 9  | 3  | 1  | 5  |    | 21 | 25 | 1  | 10 | 22 | 15 | 15 | 21 | 31 | 24 | 16 | 23 | 19 | 10 | 22 | 29 | 21 | 28 | 25 | 23 | 15 | 27 | 26 | 45  |

| 5:8    | 16            | 18              | 16            ||  |  | 2  | 19 |    | 27 | 18 | 1  | 1  | 52 | 2  | 2  | 8  | 13 | 1  | 4  |    |    |    | 35 | 3  | 6  | 1  | 2  |    | 1  |    |    | 7  | 6  |    | 2  | 28 |    |    |    | 3  | 3  |    |    | 2  | 24 | 20 |    | 7  | 21 | 1  | 2  | 5  | 20  |

| 6:7    | 7              | 13              | 30            ||  |  | 1  | 6  | 23 |    | 2  | 22 | 3  |    | 3  |    | 12 | 24 | 2  | 26 | 1  | 29 | 1  |    |    | 15 | 10 | 23 | 20 | 1  | 15 | 22 | 3  | 3  | 21 | 15 | 3  | 28 | 25 | 4  | 3  | 7  | 26 | 8  | 24 | 28 | 47 | 10 | 12 | 7  | 24 | 24 | 7  | 32  |

| 4:9    | 10            | 22              | 18            ||  |  | 2  | 1  | 41 | 4  | 19 | 1  | 22 | 2  | 37 | 3  | 30 |    | 6  | 6  | 47 | 19 | 4  | 21 | 25 | 2  | 6  | 2  | 5  | 2  | 5  | 5  |    |    |    | 1  |    | 1  | 2  | 4  | 21 | 11 |    | 25 | 1  | 1  | 1  | 3  |    |    | 15 | 17 | 3  | 8  |

| 7:6    | 4              | 7              | 39            ||  |  | 14 | 2  | 22 | 2  | 12 | 2  | 28 | 9  | 36 | 1  | 19 | 24 | 2  | 34 | 9  | 1  |    | 15 | 41 | 5  | 96 | 25 | 34 | 13 |    | 28 | 35 | 49 | 26 | 10 | 26 | 52 | 28 | 18 | 7  | 29 | 31 | 33 | 11 | 25 | 24 | 13 | 12 | 19 | 48 | 31 | 33 | 58  |

| 3:5    | 12            | 25              | 13            ||  |  |    |    | 1  | 1  | 18 | 4  | 2  | 1  |    | 2  | 21 | 3  | 2  | 65 | 31 |    | 5  | 36 | 2  | 63 | 1  | 3  | 16 | 4  | 21 | 9  | 21 |    | 45 |    | 1  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 3  | 1  | 1  | 2  | 1  |    | 2  | 1  |    | 2  |    |    | 35 | 106 |

| 6:4    | 19            | 19              | 12            ||  |  | 8  | 5  | 19 | 2  | 28 |    |    | 2  | 54 | 13 | 2  | 1  |    | 4  | 2  | 1  |    | 1  | 31 |    | 2  | 37 |    | 2  |    |    |    |    | 1  |    |    | 10 |    | 2  | 3  |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 32 | 34 |    |    |    | 3  | 5  | 12 | 10  |

| 6:8    | 18            | 20              | 12            ||  |  | 1  |    | 3  | 31 | 1  | 18 | 3  |    | 2  | 41 | 1  |    | 1  | 7  | 5  | 4  | 10 | 2  |    | 8  |    | 2  |    | 47 | 7  | 3  | 1  | 2  |    | 1  |    |    | 42 | 15 |    |    | 55 | 1  |    | 1  |    |    | 2  | 3  |    | 1  | 8  |    |

| 7:2    | 10            | 12              | 28            ||  |  | 3  | 1  | 26 | 3  |    | 6  | 37 | 2  | 2  | 37 |    | 13 |    | 3  | 10 | 5  | 1  | 5  |    |    | 4  | 19 | 1  | 43 | 30 | 36 |    | 11 | 33 | 46 | 92 |    | 30 |    | 25 | 79 | 13 | 48 | 2  | 30 | 32 | 29 | 32 | 33 | 19 | 68 | 29 | 41  |

| 5:6    | 6              | 20              | 24            ||  |  |    | 5  | 12 | 30 | 6  | 3  | 33 | 19 | 4  | 2  | 6  | 40 | 1  | 4  | 1  | 2  | 5  | 2  | 1  | 5  | 3  | 12 | 5  | 8  | 49 | 8  |    | 2  | 6  | 15 | 12 | 5  | 11 | 10 | 12 | 2  | 9  | 5  | 19 |    |    | 2  | 8  | 5  | 7  | 7  | 6  | 15  |

| 2:9    | 11            | 27              | 12            ||  |  |    | 3  | 19 | 2  | 22 | 2  | 6  | 6  | 3  | 1  | 39 | 9  | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  |    |    | 2  |    |    | 3  |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 35 |    | 64 | 11 | 30 | 1  | 1  | 31 |    | 2  | 2  | 3  | 1  |    | 1  | 1  | 11  |

| 2:8    | 7              | 20              | 23            ||  |  | 16 | 1  | 44 | 2  |    | 2  | 77 | 1  |    | 35 | 6  | 13 | 7  | 13 | 4  |    | 39 | 18 | 9  | 1  | 1  | 21 |    | 7  | 4  | 36 | 15 | 16 | 15 | 9  | 14 | 22 | 2  | 1  | 3  | 2  | 3  | 2  | 15 | 3  | 2  | 3  | 5  | 1  |    | 14 | 25 | 4  |

| 2:6    | 4              | 17              | 29            ||  |  | 2  | 1  | 5  | 18 | 4  | 11 | 7  | 33 | 9  | 1  | 19 | 5  | 3  | 26 | 36 | 2  | 24 |    | 23 | 44 | 19 | 29 | 25 | 5  | 8  | 3  | 32 | 16 | 4  |    | 12 | 12 | 3  | 10 | 6  | 5  | 11 | 10 | 12 | 10 | 34 | 3  | 2  | 2  | 41 | 4  | 6  | 17  |

| 3:2    | 7              | 18              | 25            ||  |  |    | 8  | 1  | 1  | 15 |    | 10 |    | 7  | 1  | 16 | 33 | 25 | 18 | 1  |    | 21 | 2  | 1  | 28 | 6  | 5  | 6  | 13 | 4  | 6  | 6  | 8  | 18 | 18 | 3  | 3  | 8  | 1  | 20 | 9  | 1  | 1  | 4  | 7  | 10 | 5  | 19 | 2  | 3  | 4  | 10 |    |

| 3:10  | 5              | 17              | 28            ||  |  | 6  | 1  | 1  | 28 | 2  | 1  | 6  | 7  | 17 |    | 7  |    | 1  | 1  | 8  | 3  | 18 | 3  | 29 | 14 | 8  | 2  | 24 | 1  | 21 | 23 | 4  | 28 | 4  | 17 | 23 | 16 |    | 14 | 3  | 3  | 17 | 8  | 8  | 1  | 40 | 4  | 13 | 8  | 2  | 25 | 13 | 10  |

| 6:1    | 9              | 25              | 16            ||  |  | 1  | 4  | 20 | 1  | 3  | 2  | 30 | 4  | 27 |    | 2  | 52 | 28 | 1  |    |    | 5  |    | 1  | 5  | 1  |    | 4  | 2  | 2  | 1  | 8  | 7  | 3  | 3  | 2  | 6  | 22 | 30 | 1  | 22 | 21 |    | 5  | 1  | 1  | 3  |    | 1  | 14 | 9  | 29 | 6  |

| 4:10  | 13            | 21              | 16            ||  |  | 1  | 2  |    |    | 5  | 18 | 5  | 3  |    | 1  |    |    | 37 | 6  | 5  | 45 | 2  | 1  | 13 | 13 | 2  | 19 | 15 | 1  | 5  | 2  | 2  | 1  |    |    |    | 17 | 34 | 11 | 28 | 1  | 4  | 33 | 10 |    | 2  |    | 3  |    | 1  | 1  | 9  | 8  |

| 5:7    | 12            | 19              | 19            ||  |  | 2  | 23 | 3  | 1  | 38 | 1  | 2  | 22 | 25 | 4  | 24 |    | 19 |    | 7  | 32 | 27 | 6  | 1  | 7  | 2  | 2  | 1  | 9  | 3  | 9  | 1  |    |    | 1  |    |    |    |    | 15 | 3  |    | 15 | 3  | 1  |    | 35 | 3  | 32 | 10 | 2  | 12 | 5  |

| 1:10  | 12            | 26              | 12            ||  |  |    | 2  |    | 5  | 4  | 3  | 3  | 34 | 10 | 2  |    | 2  | 70 |    | 32 | 2  | 1  | 25 | 47 | 3  | 52 | 4  | 1  | 2  | 9  | 9  | 22 | 3  |    | 3  |    | 1  |    | 1  | 3  | 3  |    | 5  | 2  | 3  | 3  |    |    | 1  | 2  | 12 | 13 | 1  |

| 7:7    | 16            | 23              | 11            ||  |  |    | 5  | 2  | 3  |    | 26 | 9  |    | 2  | 1  |    |    | 3  | 2  | 4  | 19 | 5  |    |    | 25 | 5  | 4  |    |    | 11 |    | 1  | 5  |    |    | 18 | 3  |    | 1  | 1  | 4  | 1  | 5  | 1  | 2  | 4  | 8  | 2  | 15 | 9  | 18 |    | 14  |

| 7:1    | 7              | 28              | 15            ||  |  | 2  | 44 | 4  |    | 30 | 1  | 3  | 4  | 31 |    | 1  | 8  |    | 2  | 52 | 36 | 2  | 1  | 1  | 14 | 1  |    | 2  | 12 | 5  | 4  | 39 | 4  | 2  | 2  | 7  | 3  | 5  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 22 | 1  | 5  |    | 10 | 1  | 1  | 3  | 10 | 15 | 47 | 3  |

| 3:6    | 5              | 18              | 27            ||  |  | 2  | 4  | 2  | 18 | 8  | 3  | 3  | 4  | 20 | 1  | 20 | 7  |    |    | 34 |    | 5  | 10 | 29 | 26 | 5  | 3  | 4  | 20 | 6  | 30 | 1  | 20 | 3  | 23 | 3  | 16 | 1  | 16 | 1  | 13 | 10 | 10 | 5  | 11 | 4  | 38 | 6  | 6  | 66 | 8  | 24 | 11  |

| 2:5    | 15            | 27              | 8              ||  |  | 2  | 1  | 3  | 3  | 2  | 64 |    | 2  | 1  | 3  |    | 37 | 1  |    |    |    |    | 1  |    | 37 | 2  |    | 1  | 2  | 7  | 1  |    |    | 2  | 2  | 2  |    | 1  | 35 | 1  |    | 3  | 1  | 1  | 4  | 1  |    | 1  | 3  | 3  | 13 | 6  | 21  |

| 4:6    | 12            | 19              | 19            ||  |  |    | 1  | 2  | 2  | 12 | 2  | 1  | 4  | 1  | 27 | 2  | 5  |    | 51 | 1  | 30 | 12 | 15 | 32 |    | 3  | 1  |    | 1  | 2  | 3  | 12 | 44 | 18 | 12 |    | 22 |    | 1  | 14 | 2  | 10 | 9  |    | 38 | 4  | 46 |    | 8  |    | 23 |    | 1  |

| 4:7    | 25            | 12              | 13            ||  |  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    | 1  |    | 1  | 1  |    | 8  | 2  |    | 92 |    | 1  | 3  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    | 12 | 18 | 15 | 12 |    | 1  | 11 | 4  |    | 1  | 17 | 10 | 23 | 4  | 12 | 16 |    | 6  | 5  | 3  |

| 1:2    | 15            | 27              | 8              ||  |  | 3  | 15 | 1  | 22 | 2  | 4  | 3  |    | 39 | 5  | 1  | 1  | 28 |    | 21 | 1  | 1  |    | 3  |    |    | 1  |    |    |    |    | 1  | 1  | 3  | 1  | 3  | 2  | 2  |    | 2  |    |    | 2  | 2  |    | 22 | 37 | 2  | 3  | 2  | 1  | 3  | 10  |

| 3:4    | 11            | 22              | 17            ||  |  | 3  | 1  | 10 | 2  |    | 1  | 9  | 4  |    | 21 | 1  |    | 2  |    | 1  | 25 | 27 | 3  | 3  | 28 | 6  | 6  |    | 21 | 19 | 1  | 1  | 2  | 2  | 15 | 3  |    | 9  | 17 | 25 | 4  | 1  | 26 | 3  | 4  |    | 1  | 3  |    | 10 |    | 5  | 15  |

| 5:2    | 16            | 20              | 14            ||  |  |    | 7  | 20 | 1  | 3  | 1  | 3  | 19 | 3  | 25 | 3  | 6  | 17 | 2  | 1  | 1  | 34 | 47 |    | 4  |    |    | 2  | 3  | 12 | 4  | 13 | 10 | 28 | 21 | 5  |    |    |    |    |    | 1  | 1  |    |    | 3  | 1  |    | 3  | 3  |    | 33 |    |

| 3:9    | 12            | 29              | 9              ||  |  |    |    | 2  | 10 |    | 4  | 2  | 3  | 2  | 3  | 2  | 2  | 2  | 1  |    | 4  | 6  |    | 29 | 4  | 1  | 1  | 20 | 5  |    | 1  | 5  | 4  |    |    | 3  | 3  | 11 | 3  | 1  | 1  | 8  | 3  | 11 | 3  | 2  | 5  | 11 |    | 5  | 7  |    | 1  |

| 7:9    | 13            | 24              | 13            ||  |  | 1  |    | 3  | 4  | 7  | 2  | 15 | 2  | 2  | 1  | 62 | 8  | 3  | 28 | 1  |    | 2  | 1  |    | 1  |    | 3  | 1  | 41 | 15 | 2  |    | 9  | 2  | 2  | 31 |    |    | 1  |    |    |    | 2  |    | 1  | 1  | 2  | 31 | 23 | 1  | 7  | 10 | 3  |

| 1:6    | 8              | 14              | 28            ||  |  |    | 40 | 1  | 3  | 3  | 37 | 1  | 35 | 2  | 7  | 6  |    |    | 34 | 2  | 3  | 7  | 37 | 2  | 10 | 61 | 21 | 5  | 51 | 42 | 31 | 48 | 9  | 24 | 25 | 36 | 31 | 28 | 40 | 1  | 7  |    | 13 | 45 | 15 | 2  |    | 3  | 15 | 2  | 3  |    | 6  |

| 2:10  | 4              | 15              | 31            ||  |  | 6  | 7  | 6  | 8  | 3  | 6  | 12 | 5  | 1  | 33 | 12 |    | 1  | 1  | 10 | 4  | 68 | 18 | 3  | 25 | 21 | 33 | 3  |    | 28 | 9  | 35 | 3  | 5  | 16 | 9  | 6  | 19 | 4  | 16 | 13 | 5  | 8  | 15 | 7  | 6  | 1  | 20 | 5  | 19 | 22 | 3  | 9  |

| 1:8    | 9              | 24              | 17            ||  |  | 30 | 6  | 5  | 3  | 19 | 2  | 12 | 4  | 1  |    | 2  | 2  | 4  | 21 | 1  | 34 | 5  |    | 2  | 2  | 13 | 11 | 41 | 3  | 8  | 2  | 3  | 9  |    | 35 |    | 6  | 1  | 3  |    | 3  | 8  | 33 | 1  | 47 | 1  |    | 12 | 1  | 3  |    | 1  | 1  |

| 6:9    | 16            | 21              | 13            ||  |  | 10 | 1  | 1  | 14 | 4  |    | 1  | 26 | 2  | 17 | 19 |    | 1  |    | 23 |    |    | 1  | 4  |    | 2  | 1  | 3  |    | 32 | 1  | 1  |    | 2  | 1  | 6  |    | 1  |    | 2  |    | 4  | 18 | 20 |    |    | 2  | 2  | 11 | 20 | 15 |    | 1  |

| 1:5    | 9              | 26              | 15            ||  |  | 37 | 1  | 2  | 2  | 12 | 9  | 18 | 4  | 4  | 10 | 37 | 5  | 30 | 1  |    | 15 | 17 | 3  | 3  | 3  | 31 |    | 4  |    | 3  | 2  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 4  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 3  |    | 3  |    |    | 2  |    | 15 | 1  | 26 | 1  | 13 | 13 | 1  | 25  |

| 1:4    | 7              | 15              | 28            ||  |  | 40 | 5  | 2  | 2  |    | 7  | 9  | 1  | 37 | 1  | 12 |    | 4  | 2  | 2  | 31 | 1  | 1  | 1  |    | 29 | 41 | 9  | 28 | 32 | 8  | 41 | 10 | 18 | 32 | 28 | 3  | 17 | 8  |    | 15 |    | 7  | 2  | 13 | 19 | 4  | 19 | 1  | 20 | 10 | 24 | 13  |

| 3:7    | 10            | 24              | 16            ||  |  | 2  | 3  | 13 |    | 3  | 23 | 1  | 2  | 4  | 20 | 14 | 1  | 3  | 8  | 27 | 29 | 2  | 3  | 31 | 2  | 1  |    | 2  |    |    | 2  | 3  | 2  |    | 1  |    |    | 3  | 1  | 12 | 11 | 75 | 31 | 1  | 9  | 4  | 1  | 5  | 1  | 14 | 22 | 6  |    |

| 2:2    | 12            | 25              | 13            ||  |  |    | 1  | 1  |    | 25 | 1  | 2  | 7  | 5  | 23 | 4  | 2  | 5  |    |    | 43 | 4  | 1  | 4  | 5  |    | 11 | 2  | 26 | 2  | 4  | 27 | 3  | 20 | 1  | 4  | 1  |    | 5  |    |    | 1  | 1  |    |    | 5  | 23 | 2  | 7  | 6  | 8  | 2  | 12  |

| 7:3    | 17            | 28              | 5              ||  |  |    | 2  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 5  | 17 | 1  |    | 2  |    | 1  | 62 |    | 1  | 3  |    |    | 1  | 1  | 2  |    | 1  |    | 1  |    | 1  | 1  | 2  |    | 1  | 1  | 31 | 1  | 33 | 1  | 1  | 4  | 7  |    |    | 3  |    | 2  | 1  |    | 1  |    |

| 3:3    | 10            | 26              | 14            ||  |  | 4  | 5  | 8  | 1  | 4  | 39 | 4  | 14 | 3  | 4  | 1  | 13 | 4  | 3  | 4  | 3  | 22 |    | 14 | 1  | 6  | 20 | 17 |    |    | 5  | 3  | 32 | 1  | 2  | 1  | 4  |    |    | 3  |    | 1  | 2  | 7  | 8  |    | 1  | 1  | 5  | 22 |    | 3  | 9  |

| 5:9    | 15            | 28              | 7              ||  |  | 22 | 1  | 28 |    | 1  | 1  |    |    | 2  |    | 4  | 4  | 4  | 2  | 15 | 1  |    | 2  | 3  |    |    |    | 1  | 24 | 2  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 3  | 7  | 4  | 1  | 8  | 4  | 9  |    | 1  | 2  | 2  |    | 1  |    | 4  |    |    | 3  | 1  |

| 3:8    | 9              | 26              | 15            ||  |  | 5  | 26 | 1  |    | 4  | 30 | 1  | 3  | 8  | 2  | 19 | 21 | 3  | 16 | 10 | 1  |    | 27 | 18 | 3  | 11 | 7  | 19 | 1  | 2  | 2  | 4  | 4  |    | 2  | 4  |    |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 2  |    | 4  | 3  | 1  | 14 | 7  | 1  |    | 3  | 3  | 13  |

| 5:4    | 8              | 26              | 16            ||  |  | 5  | 1  | 2  | 20 | 4  | 1  | 4  |    |    | 21 | 1  | 6  | 6  | 7  | 3  | 3  | 9  |    | 20 | 1  | 2  | 1  | 5  | 3  | 4  | 1  | 2  | 9  | 3  | 5  | 2  | 3  |    | 10 | 17 | 1  |    | 14 |    | 2  | 5  | 44 | 8  | 12 | 3  | 17 | 4  | 8  |

| 2:3    | 10            | 23              | 17            ||  |  |    | 1  | 5  | 1  | 3  | 8  | 14 |    | 2  | 15 | 1  | 13 | 9  | 4  | 9  |    | 7  | 41 | 8  | 6  | 3  | 10 | 6  | 14 | 3  | 3  | 5  | 7  | 3  | 24 |    |    | 3  | 5  | 2  | 2  | 8  | 3  | 5  |    |    | 1  |    | 3  | 1  | 3  | 10 | 2  |

| 2:1    | 12            | 31              | 7              ||  |  | 2  | 2  | 2  | 11 | 3  | 5  | 12 | 2  | 3  | 43 | 2  |    |    |    | 4  | 16 | 3  | 2  |    | 3  | 1  |    | 1  | 1  | 2  | 1  | 3  | 3  | 1  | 4  | 1  | 1  | 5  | 2  | 3  | 1  |    | 25 | 1  |    | 1  | 2  | 10 | 3  | 25 |    |    |    |

| 4:2    | 10            | 30              | 10            ||  |  |    | 1  | 3  |    | 51 |    | 24 | 3  | 21 | 12 | 15 | 1  | 3  | 2  | 3  | 18 | 6  | 2  | 19 | 3  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 4  | 1  | 5  | 1  |    | 1  |    | 1  |    | 2  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 1  | 12 | 1  | 2  |    | 1  |    | 2  | 1  | 27 | 1  | 5  |

| 6:5    | 10            | 28              | 12            ||  |  | 28 | 4  | 16 | 1  | 3  |    | 1  |    | 1  | 4  | 1  | 24 | 2  | 1  | 34 |    | 4  | 1  | 9  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 7  | 29 |    | 2  | 2  | 8  | 5  |    | 1  | 6  | 1  | 6  | 3  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 1  |    | 1  |    | 6  | 1  |    | 3  | 13 | 2  |

| 6:3    | 8              | 20              | 22            ||  |  | 1  | 1  | 4  | 5  | 3  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 7  | 3  | 6  | 2  |    | 3  |    | 23 | 28 | 40 | 16 | 2  | 35 |    | 19 | 3  | 9  | 28 |    | 5  |    | 5  | 9  | 5  | 5  | 12 | 9  | 6  | 11 | 6  | 2  | 20 | 2  | 30 | 8  | 14 |    | 22 | 7  | 2  |

| 5:1    | 7              | 35              | 8              ||  |  | 1  | 5  | 2  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 1  | 4  | 1  | 3  | 1  | 7  | 6  | 2  | 6  | 8  |    | 4  | 1  | 5  | 5  | 2  | 7  | 3  | 3  | 1  | 1  | 10 | 1  |    | 4  | 4  | 1  | 2  | 5  | 5  | 2  | 8  | 3  | 1  | 5  |    |    |    | 4  | 26 | 1  | 1  |

| 4:4    | 16            | 23              | 11            ||  |  | 6  |    |    |    | 14 | 1  | 3  | 31 | 1  | 22 | 1  | 3  | 6  |    | 1  |    | 5  | 11 | 4  | 7  | 10 | 1  | 1  | 4  | 4  | 2  | 6  | 1  | 3  | 3  | 1  | 3  | 2  |    | 1  | 3  |    |    |    | 2  |    |    |    | 15 |    |    | 6  | 1  |

| 5:3    | 17            | 26              | 7              ||  |  | 1  | 1  |    | 1  |    | 2  |    | 1  | 22 | 1  |    | 4  |    | 45 |    | 4  | 1  | 2  | 18 | 13 | 1  |    | 13 | 4  | 3  | 2  | 6  | 3  | 2  | 6  | 1  | 3  | 5  | 2  | 1  |    |    |    | 2  |    |    |    | 1  | 2  | 4  | 1  |    |    |

| 4:5    | 13            | 24              | 13            ||  |  | 15 | 1  | 1  | 1  | 2  | 58 | 2  | 5  | 3  | 13 | 3  | 8  |    |    | 2  | 6  | 1  | 1  | 9  | 4  | 9  | 2  | 6  | 4  | 9  | 2  | 3  |    | 2  |    |    | 5  |    | 10 | 6  | 1  | 3  | 15 | 4  |    |    |    |    | 4  | 14 | 5  |    | 3  |

| 1:9    | 10            | 29              | 11            ||  |  | 18 | 1  | 1  | 21 | 4  | 24 |    | 23 | 21 | 2  |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 33 | 3  | 2  |    | 2  | 4  | 1  | 4  | 7  |    | 4  |    | 1  | 31 | 4  |    | 2  | 1  | 4  | 2  |    | 10 | 2  | 2  | 13 |    | 5  | 3  | 1  | 4  | 14 | 1  | 3  | 2  |

| 2:4    | 5              | 26              | 19            ||  |  | 1  | 4  | 2  | 14 | 4  |    | 1  |    | 7  | 1  | 58 | 1  | 4  | 4  | 41 | 1  | 4  | 45 | 9  | 39 | 8  | 7  | 6  | 1  | 4  | 2  | 6  | 11 | 1  | 7  | 8  | 1  | 4  | 6  | 5  | 5  | 7  | 8  | 12 | 5  |    | 4  | 3  | 4  | 3  | 3  | 2  | 9  |

| 2:7    | 12            | 32              | 6              ||  |  | 3  | 54 | 1  |    | 4  | 1  | 5  | 4  | 5  | 4  | 9  | 1  |    | 1  | 4  | 23 |    | 12 |    | 4  | 1  | 7  |    | 16 | 2  | 4  | 2  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 3  | 2  | 3  | 3  | 1  | 1  |    |    |    | 2  |    | 4  | 1  |    | 4  | 1  | 4  | 1  |

| 6:6    | 10            | 28              | 12            ||  |  | 4  | 5  | 4  | 33 | 6  | 17 | 5  | 4  | 14 | 1  | 15 |    | 1  | 5  | 1  | 8  | 16 | 3  | 6  | 2  | 2  | 1  | 12 | 2  | 2  |    |    | 3  | 3  |    | 5  | 7  | 1  | 4  |    | 4  | 6  | 1  | 1  |    |    | 1  | 4  |    | 3  | 2  | 2  | 6  |

| 7:4    | 17            | 27              | 6              ||  |  | 1  | 4  | 22 |    |    | 1  |    | 4  | 1  | 1  |    | 3  | 2  | 3  |    | 1  |    |    |    |    | 1  | 3  | 1  | 7  | 6  | 12 | 17 | 4  | 3  | 1  | 2  | 3  | 3  | 3  |    | 1  | 1  | 4  | 1  | 6  |    |    | 2  | 3  |    |    | 1  |    |

| 7:8    | 7              | 37              | 6              ||  |  | 49 | 1  | 9  | 43 | 2  | 3  | 8  | 27 | 1  | 2  | 2  | 2  | 2  | 5  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 3  | 1  | 2  | 4  | 5  |    | 5  | 3  | 1  | 4  | 4  | 4  | 1  | 3  | 5  |    | 3  |    |    |    | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 1  | 5  | 3  | 2  | 3  | 5  | 7  |

| 1:1    | 17            | 32              | 1              ||  |  | 3  | 4  |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 1  |    | 3  |    |    | 1  | 1  |    | 1  | 2  | 1  | 4  | 6  | 1  | 3  | 3  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 1  |    | 3  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 2  |    |    |    | 1  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 2  |    |    |    | 1  | 1  |    |    |    |

| 5:5    | 8              | 32              | 10            ||  |  | 5  | 1  | 3  | 9  | 3  | 7  | 6  | 3  | 1  | 4  | 2  | 4  | 4  | 5  | 3  | 3  | 1  | 6  | 1  | 6  | 5  | 10 | 3  | 2  |    | 3  | 1  |    | 7  | 3  | 9  | 8  |    |    | 2  | 2  |    |    | 1  | 1  | 4  | 2  | 1  | 2  | 1  | 3  | 2  | 6  |

| 1:3    | 24            | 26              | 0              ||  |  |    | 4  |    | 2  | 5  |    | 1  | 5  | 4  | 2  |    | 2  | 2  | 2  |    |    | 2  | 1  | 4  |    |    | 2  |    | 1  |    |    |    | 1  |    |    |    |    |    | 4  | 2  |    | 2  |    | 1  |    |    | 4  | 1  |    | 3  | 2  | 1  | 1  |

| 7:5    | 10            | 34              | 6              ||  |  | 5  | 15 | 7  | 9  | 36 | 1  | 17 |    |    | 1  | 3  | 2  | 4  | 6  | 1  | 3  | 4  | 4  | 3  | 1  | 1  | 2  | 3  | 3  | 1  |    | 2  |    |    |    | 1  | 3  | 1  | 2  | 1  |    | 2  | 1  | 1  |    | 4  | 2  | 1  | 1  | 1  | 5  | 1  | 2  |

| 4:1    | 9              | 27              | 14            ||  |  | 1  | 13 | 19 |    | 8  | 41 | 6  | 8  | 27 | 19 | 3  | 2  | 9  | 4  | 1  | 2  |    | 4  |    | 1  | 10 | 6  |    | 1  | 4  | 5  | 10 | 3  | 3  | 3  | 3  | 5  | 2  |    | 5  | 5  | 1  | 4  | 2  | 6  | 8  | 3  |    | 4  | 2  | 1  | 5  |    |

|--------|----------------|-----------------|----------------||---|---|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-----|

Several low/middle ranked galaxies did have have incs for most of the round.. not always a massive amount of fleets but still..
Some of the galaxies will obviously be Ultores forts which did get incs most of the round so that could be a partial explanation..

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US (Post 3249285)

Your just throwing numbers around mz. This may look like you know your shit. Your good at that.
For me its just numbers

Grow up.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram (Post 3249289)

I think a cut off point of 6 fleets a day is a bit on the low side. Even so, for the middle 27 galaxies, that comes down to 2.2 nights like that a week. I am not too shocked by that.

(Oh, and to clarify, I keep looking at those middle galaxies because the top 20 should be able to look after themselves, and the bottom 20 is pretty much a lost cause.)

Re: Change of buddypack system

So basically alliances (their not wanting to hit each other) causes a higher amount of incs tick 24-400 aimed at lesser alliances and newer players causing them to quit.

So are alliances themselves and not the tag limit or bp size or the fact they are random or not actually to blame for new players quitting the game?

As it's is literally impossible to remove alliances from the game ( most tools can now operate without in-game alliance page) how do you propose stopping this problem? Is it even stoppable? Can we think of an incentive to make alliances war each from tick start?

Re: Change of buddypack system

Well, the "problem" with war in PA is that it's multilateral. In games like Starcraft, you usually only have 1 opponent. If you kill that opponent's entire army while losing only half yourself, you're winning. In PA, you have a whole bunch of opponents. If you lose half your fleet finishing off one of them, there's almost always some other opponent who's lost nothing. In a war between alliances A and B, it's alliance C (And D, E, F...) on the sidelines that gains most from it. Never alliances A or B, no matter how badly one is beating the other.

In addition, you don't gain anything from war until you've exhausted your target's defense. If your target can cover 100 incoming fleets, then if you send exactly 100 fleets, you land nothing. It's the fleets after the 100th (all of them!) that land.

And finally, the better your land rate, the lower the chances of crashing. You can't crash your attack when there's no defense to crash into, after all.

(Possibly interesting sidenote: the math is kind of funky. The number of crashes depends on your crash rate and the number of fleets your target can cover, not on the number of fleets you send: Number of crashes = Crash rate * Number of fleets covered by defense)

This is why alliances generally attempt to fight asymmetric wars. Spending a week fighting it out 1 : 1 sounds noble and honourable, but that kind of slugfest is not what wins rounds. Your landing rate suffers, and both sides will slowly erode each other's value away through crashing, fleet catches and reduced roid gain rates.

All of these things combine to discourage alliances from from fighting wars, especially long protracted ones. It has nothing to do with cowardice, it's simply the best strategy for winning a round. Ensure that each of your opponents is killed as quickly as possible, while losing as little as possible yourself. Send 200 fleets in 1 night, land 75%, inflict 25% roid loss. Overkill, that's the name of the game.

If you want to counter this somehow, then you need to do something about the "Two dogs strive for a bone and the third runs off with it" effect. One way might be to give 100% salvage to both sides. That way, crashing is something that ruins the next couple of days (no ships = you get roided), rather than the reset of the round. To ensure crashing is still at least somewhat punished, you could slow down production times by a factor 2-3, and/or reduce the rate at which additional factories speed up an order. This would ensure that a crash still hurts, because you can't gain roids without ships, and you'll be an easy target for retalliation during this time. Something would have to be done about the bashing formula too, I guess. Use peak value + score from the last X days, rather than from now? Something like that.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3249302)

I think a cut off point of 6 fleets a day is a bit on the low side. Even so, for the middle 27 galaxies, that comes down to 2.2 nights like that a week. I am not too shocked by that.

Stop trying to make averages from the numbers.. It's not the averages that count..
Seeing hostile fleets almost every day is what makes it tiring.. Wheter that is 1 fleet or 10 fleets is a bit less relevant..
Also: the bottom/middle galaxies tend to have less roids and in some cases also less planets (since everyone exiles out) so that would attract less fleets..
But never the less they need to spent time covering their incs constantly and trying/hoping people in the less active galaxy will be able to defend..

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram (Post 3249319)

Stop trying to make averages from the numbers.. It's not the averages that count..

Your data is valuable, and I'm happy to use it as a starting point, but it's impossible to say anything intelligible about it without further analysis. Granted, simply taking an average is far from the best method for doing that, but I object to the notion that it represents a serious distortion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram (Post 3249319)

Seeing hostile fleets almost every day is what makes it tiring.. Wheter that is 1 fleet or 10 fleets is a bit less relevant..

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. With one single exception (4:7, ranked 29th), every galaxy has one or more incomings on most days, whether ranked high or low. A single glance at the raw data makes that clear, and I'm surprised the author apparently hasn't bothered to do even that.

Additionally, there's a qualitative difference between 1-2 fleets of incs, which you can cover by haphazardly sending some barely coordinated fleets, and 9-10 incs, which requires real cooperation and communication to cover well. Anyone who's played any amount of PA knows that.

And on top of those 2 objections, your own data disagrees with you. Here are the facts, plain and simple. Lower ranked galaxies get fewer incs than higher ranked galaxies, both in total and on a night-by-night basis. The trend is that rank has little impact on the number of days with 0 incs, that higher ranked galaxies tend to have more days with 6+ incs, and that lower ranked galaxies tend to have more days with 1-5 incs. This is what your own data shows us. Ignore the trend lines if it makes you feel better, the facts don't lie. There's more red on the left and more yellow on the right. There's more incs on the left, less on the right.

Honestly, I don't know what more to tell you.

Re: Change of buddypack system

This current set of arguing about statistics looking at higher and lower ranked galaxies seems to me to be rather pointless. If statistics are to be used for one or other side then surely someone needs to work out a list of fort gals and then compare their incs with those that are not fort gals. We already know that there are a lot of forts - even if it is beneficial to be a fort a great many forts are still going to be in the lower ranks. After all we also know that fencing can work as well so long as the galaxy in question has good players with enough pull to ensure their alliances dont hit their own galaxy.

Re: Change of buddypack system

Quote:

Originally Posted by booji (Post 3249332)

Next round everyone will fort with the stats suggested so i guess the problem will be even bigger