The Dole
I have just graduated from University.
I don't have a job. I have no money. AH HA I have a genius idea, why dont I go sign on. So today I phoned up the job centre and enquired about "signing on" I explained my situation and told the lady that I had just graduated etc etc etc. She told me that I couldnt sign on without a letter from my University to say that I had finished University. I asked her "What do I do with this letter?" She merely replied "Read it out over the phone." Puzzled I said my goodbyes and hung up. Moments later I hit the redial button. This time success a male voice at the end of the telephone. I did the same thing, explained my situation and with him there was no problems. You see that's the problem with women, when they are on the period or are experiencing mood swings or some other hormonal shite they are twats to you and will try and make your life as difficult as possible. On a good day they will go far for you, but when you speak to a bloke you won't get bullshit. The man (named Peter) asked me a few generic questions. I answered them and then today (Tuesday) in the afternoon the job centre will phone me up and I will have to give over a few specific details like Bank details, details of my last job, my aspirations in life and I'm sure my hopes and fears as well. Then come Friday I go to the job centre have an interview, tick a few boxes, sign some paper, look for a job but perhaps most importantly get £44 then in two weeks time £88. Now I have several friends who like myself have graduated from University. Like myself dont have a job. However are refusing to sign on because they don't want to sponge off the state and think it harms your employmant chances and appears on something called "Your record" (I thought you could only have a criminal record, but apparently according to a few of my friends theres some magical employment record which keeps track of when your employed/unemployed and claiming benefits, im yet to be won over but you never know...GD please enlighten me on that). Personally I see nothing wrong with it. I have paid my national insurance contributions and taxes. My parents pay taxes. My sisters pay taxes. I am unemployed. I am looking for a job, so I shall claim what is rightfully mine which is "Job Seekers Allowance" which basically is some money to help me live and find a job I guess. As my dad put it, if your friends want to effectively burn £44 a week, let them. He is absolutely right in my opinion. Im entitled to it and i'm claiming it. God bless Britain. My question to you GD, do you regard signing on as a Shameful act? Would you Sign on? Do you share the same feelings as my friends or do you see it from my perspective? |
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LIsten, I've worked shit jobs for 7 years to put myself through school and college respectivly, I've paid teh equivalent of €32k in social insurance here in Ireland over that period of time. Yet now that I've finished college and can't find a career orientated job I'm deemed undesirable and unsocialbe because I'm claiming social welfare.
I'm sorry but I want a decent ****ing job. I've stacked shelves, helped old people, solved IT problems, lifted boxes, picked up litter and helped anyone who needed it in my little jobs. I couldn't give a flying **** about anyone now. Everyone's shit on me, my degree is worthless, my experience is worthless, my life up till this point is one of base labour and will not change in the future...as no-one will give me a job. My "experience" of two + years is inapplicable apparently. My willingness to do anything is not accepted. I'm on the dole as we speak but will get cut off in the next month, even though I've paid seven years worth of national insurance claims into the system. Clearly you're only worth what they deem you you to be. And clearly I'm currently worthless. |
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It wasn't a very pleasant feeling to go to the job centre and sign on that very first time - like i was doing something shameful, funnily enough - but in the end it's necessary, it won't be for ever and that's what it's there for. I'm curious to know how your friends intend to fund their living costs, what with not being in work nor signing on. (Have no idea about the 'Your Record' thing, i just thought that was something they tried to scare you with at school.) |
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Benefit workers are a very mixed lot, but I'm fairly certain they're trained to 'weed out' suspicious claims and make the process generally unappealing. Of course this is ridiculous as the atmosphere only refines the talents of the giro poachers while making it difficult for first time claimants. I once received an on-the-spot analysis of my choice to study philosophy from an art grad who had taken a philosophy of art module while she was wasting everyone's oxygen at an english polytechnic or something, and this treatment isn't out of line with the job centre's general policy of undermining patronism. Don't ever expect to be treated like an adult there.
There's more bad news on the career advice front, because unless you're depressingly average or comedically alternative you won't get any. Why does the government insist on appointing such people to lure the 'fringes' back into society? Now that's a fairly well-developed (though perhaps not entirely convincing) reason not to sign on. A stupid reason to not sign on would go something like a fool's pride. An appropriate way of displaying your wisdom to your poverty-stricken brethren would be spending your allowance on alcohol at a local public house. If this should not suffice, offer to buy your stubborn friend a drink at Her Majesty's expense. While I suppose benefit is recorded, I'd doubt this information is freely available to employers without a detailed background check. In any case, it seems like a non-issue and I don't know what there is to fear - if anything I'd consider the strength of character displayed by rejecting the image of benefit a positive trait. It'd only look bad if you were claiming for a long period, but as I recall jobseeker's allowance only extends for six months. In any case, if you do earnestly look for employment I doubt it will take you long to find it. |
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It is a pretty stupid idea to imagine that people will just hand you a job coming out of college. An education is just a minimum requirement, if anything at all unless you are an engineer or of the like. You have to go out there and find someway that you can contribute in a way that someone will pay you for it. Willing to do 'anything' is nice but are you really out there, finding out what people need? Go be useful, go learn a useful trait, get some experience, until someone decides they need someone like you. Employers still need people, you cannot run a business without them. An employee is in the business of selling themselves, and what do you have for sale?
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I attempted to sign on once (after I was made redundant) but I found a job the next day and it was all cancelled. So I've never (directly) been on benefits. If I lost my job I would have no fear in going to sign on, but realistically the £44 a week (or whatever the contributory amount is) wouldn't be enough to pay my way in terms of bills I have etc. So I'd be pretty much be forced to look for some utter shit job in a supermarket first (which is kind of the point of the benefis system I suppose). |
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i personally have never signed on, and wouldnt unless i absolutely had too, but that is only personal preference.
the record keeping thing is your friends talking shit pig |
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I would never sign on because I like to believe that the money saved would somehow help out those poorer than myself. Though I am aware that this may well not be the case.
If someone chooses not to work then I believe they should be allowed not to. It does annoy me as awfully miserly for the state to quibble over £44/week for someone. I'm sure that person will find a way in which he or she could contribute (and paying taxes is not the only way to contribute to a society) and they will certainly be more inclined to contribute if the state has been gracious and caring in their time of need rather than penny pinching and unnecessarily vicious. Regarding incubusgod: I can understand someone who chooses not to work. Indeed I respect them. Someone with a degree who claims that there are no jobs that he could get is quite simply pathetic (and a bad liar). |
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i think that that is a bit harsh on inc yahwe, i know quite a few people who are having real difficulty finding jobs now that they have come out of uni, and the amount of my friends who are actually working in a job related to thier degree are few and far between.
I even know people who have been told that they are too qualified for jobs :/ |
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There once was a fellow from Cornwall
At job applications was awful Was lazy as shit And moaned like a tit But one must assume he was normal. |
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Unless you're planning to get a mortgage in the next 5 years I don't think it'll affect you at all. That was what I was led to believe though - it could be an urban myth. Quote:
It's a "Job Seekers Allowance" - you'll be searching for jobs. It's a pittance anyway, and you have to prove you're searching for jobs which is actually a real hassle - printing off letters of application and rejection, showing them your CV, going into the job centre once a week. It's probably worth £44 just on that. That's what - 8 hours work in a supermarket? So no - I think it's fine. I had a job ready for me from university though so haven't been in the same situation. I'd investigate that credit record thing though - it could be true. |
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If you want a job (especially a graduate one) then don't narrow yourself down to living in a particular place.
Saying "I only want a job in Central London" or "I only want a job outside London" or "I only want a job which I can get to on the bus from my parents house" narrows down your choices incredibly. There are shit loads of jobs out there that anyone can do that pay pretty well. It's all about being flexible, not being lazy and viewing any position as a stepping stone. |
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Like your dad says, your friends are burning those money, stupid as they are. I see no reason for them to feel shameful in recieving support. There's no dishonor in recieving support when you're in a tight situation. However, I'd feel rather shameful if I were one of those guys/girls that can't be arsed to find themselves a job and just continues to live on social support while they live at home with their parents playing PC-games all day long. |
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As much as university allows you to be free and independent, it's also very limiting and you do live in a bit of a student-bubble. It's easy for you to say relocate because you're completely fine with it - a lot of people aren't, it seems. |
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I wonder if I'll have to move when I graduate from clown college :(
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I think that while pig has no job, he should claim it but he should get any job he can (even if its part time) asap just because it's something that will show up on his CV that he was doing something. |
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I'm trying to say that if you're finding it difficult to find a job that you want to do, that pays what you want and in the location you want then maybe you should broaden your options. If I was living on £44 a week I don't think I would have a very good quality of life though... Anyway, aren't you from Portsmouth? Quote:
I agree with you really - look to get a job, preferably relevant to what you want to do, as soon as possible. If this proves difficult then widen the search to (I'm assuming) outside Birmingham. |
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Unless you want to do something fairly specialised I don't think wanting to only stay in your home town is particularly unreasonable (unless you come from a hamlet or something)
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It all boils down to what your priorities are I guess. I'm sure if my friends were all living in the same place still I might fancy going back... As it is I think I only know one person (who I give a shit about) who's permanently based in Nottingham at the moment. Not including family of course. |
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Signing on is the smart thing to do when out of work. Even if you don’t think you need the £44 a week what alot of people forget is that by signing on they also pay your NI contributions thus ensuring you make enough payments to fulfil to min amount you need to make the year a qualifying year. It may not bother them now but if you don’t make enough it can effect your pension later on if you don’t have enough qualifying years and by going to uni your potentially down 3 years worth already without risking adding to it.
The only problem with signing on though is that the Job Centre seems focused solely on breaking your spirit so your take any old job they offer. When I left uni I ended up being forced to sign on to get the info for a vacancy the job centre were advertising and the £44 was just a bonus. Now they start of nice and not being pushy but after a couple of times signing on they start trying to push anything on you just to get you to stop signing on and the minute you agree to have them print a job out just to get them off your back they stop your payments. The main problem I had was I was signed up to a number of recruitment agencies as the job centre require. They were getting me a number of temp assignments but it was never enough for me to fully sign off (I just lost that weeks payment but still had the NI paid as my income wasn’t enough for that to be paid from my wages). As such after about 4 month of which id had temp assignments for at least half of it they declared I had now been signing on for long enough to be put on the new deal. After about a week of being on the new deal they announced "you’re being sent on a skill building course" on which they told me I would almost certainly be sent on a work placement in an IT related role to build up some experience. The good thing was they paid you £15 a week more; bad news was it was 6 months long. On the first day they went around the room asking what their career goals were, there were a couple of us whom had computing degrees there and alot of people with degrees in general and as we were looking for IT role they announced that we were to do their IT Course. Their IT course turned out to be CLAIT and ECDL which lets be honest are barely worth the paper they certificate is written on. We were then sent to the Placement officer whom after a chat declared "No problem we will have you in an IT company or IT department in no time" Due to lack of computers most of the days were spent sitting there doing nothing. Occasionally people without qualifications would get called to the Placement officer and come out smiling as they had got a work placement in some large superstore but rarely did a qualified person get a call in. During the course I had the recruitment agencies regularly calling me with a temp work of a few days but due to the fact that I was on this course and was only allowed to miss 10 days over the 6 month course which I would need for the interviews for the jobs I was applying for. Over the course a few people got jobs in the area they were after, more took any old job to get off the course and a few like myself hung on to the faint hope that we would get the work placement and the experience we needed. Two weeks before the end of the course I got called into the placement officer’s office. He turned around and went "I might have you a placement, they turned down one person for not being knowledgeable enough but you should be fine and we can extend your course time upto 6 months to allow you to do it". So I asked where and he replies "Game, the computer games shop in town". I politely declined and while I had to put up with both the centre manage and my Job Centre Advisor lecturing me I left the course two weeks later having gained some shitty qualifications and wasting 6 months of my life and having turned down a lot of temp work which could have potentially led to something more permanent all to simply make Blairs employment figures look better Those 10 months from leaving uni were the worst in my life, thankfully while I’m still temping or working on short term contracts they have been long enough where I have largely been able to stay away from the Job Centre although I do dread having to go back every time my current assignment comes to an end |
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After I left the army (my year was up), I signed up for the dole. I didnt bother trying to get a summer job, feeling I needed some real vacation time (bloody right I did) in the civilized world. Funny thing is, on the dole I got 30quid a day, while in the army I got 8 quid a day.
I felt it was quite apropriate that the state should pay me some money after getting so little while in the army :) |
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While i don't think anyone should settle for £44 when you can earn more and actually do something, there are places in the country where i could live on compartively little and enjoy living there. The fact I would be earning a lot more money is helpful because I'd be getting paid for the years of education and the ability I (allegedly) possess. However there are places that are not and I wouldn't want to go there because I'd be earning X amount of wedge. As much as its unfashionable to agree with Yahwe, I put a lot more emphasis on 'value' rather than 'money'. Quote:
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P.S. bold helps you make points on the internet am i rite |
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I am perfectly happy with people being on the dole.
What troubles me is all the anger against 'the system' because people are not automatically given the job they want, where they want it, for £100k a year ... Ste is perfectly correct when he talks about limitting yourself in your job search. An argument such as "I have to be on the dole because all I can find is jobs I don't like" is quite frankly pathetic. To clarify: I object to the word 'have' which should be replaced by the word 'choose'. There are plenty of jobs. The system looks after those who choose not to work (those that can not work are better looked after by a different system). If your ego is too big, or your pride too arrogantly enflamed to take a job then you are choosing not to work. That is your choice and one that I think is your right to make. However then complaining about it as though the situation was somehow 'forced upon you' is a lie that I find very annoying indeed. |
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Also Job Centre phoned me today. As promised they had to ask me some questions. 37 minutes later "I dont know how you managed to get this far, but your local job centre should be doing this, phone them up." I asked her what she meant, and apparently my local job centre is so big that I have to go there and fill out the forms instead of her being able to sort it out for me. What ashame. |
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I'd rather give myself bowel surgery with a stick in the woods than ever sign on again. It's not so much the fact of actually being on the dole, it's just that the whole system is mindlessly, insanely burecratic, and the people who the Job Centre actually employs are invariably barely literate semi-chavs who are about as useful to you as taking a swit blow to the groin from Mike Tyson, and yet believe that they are somehow superior to you in every respect.
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Most likely, although at the moment im filling out an application for my dream job. Its to work at Coral (the bookmakers) it combines two passions of mine Gambling and Sport!
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You do realise it'll probably take about two to three months (Probably three considering you're going to have to do forms) before you get your first payment, don't you?
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I was told friday ;/
Do they lie? |
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hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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People should "sign on" if they are eligible; not just for the £44 per week, but also for housing benefit purposes, free prescriptions, free dental care, deferment in paying back your student loan, and of course (very importantly) National Insurance credits towards your state pension.
PS: Also some local councils give grants to people on benefit for home improvements and energy efficiency. |
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I had a pretty similiar experience. I graduated in June and on the day of my graduation i was driven to the dole office by my parents and told to sign on. Having just been given the bit of paper which told me i'd ****ed up the last 4 years of my life AND signing on PROVING i'd ****ed up the last 4 years of my life made that day one of the worst i've ever experienced. Anyway i graduated and had not a ****ing clue what i was supposed to do now. Futher education (ie Masters etc) was now closed to me. I didn't want to work in a bar again. I just didn't have a ****ing clue. EVery temp job seemed to want 6 months experience. It was just a nightmare. 3 months after signing on i still didn't have a job. I hadn't really been looking to be honest (i was still kinda in shock with my degree). So anyway i had my "3 month meeting" with my job adviser. He asked me what kind of jobs i was after. I was fairly non-commital. he told me a bunch of jobs had come up at the passport office and, after i said "sure, why not", requested application forms for me. I applied for PO1 and PO2 jobs. I got interviews for both. I didn't get a PO2 job (which basically invovles making sure that the details on an application form match the details on the previous passport). I didn't get a full time PO1 job (which basically involves making sure you know your alphabet so you can file things. You also need to be able to press a button to print off an address label which you then put on an envelope). I did however get a part time part year evening shift PO1 job. That job paid £9.8k pro rata. I was told i had the job at the start of September but didnt actually do my first shift until the end of February (goooooo security clearance). As such i was unemploed for 8 months (although i got a job after 5). All this with a degree and some experience in various kinds of job (supermarket, lab, pub). Come the end of September i was temporarally unemployed again. I refused to sign on for the next 3 months that this was the case. I was still finding it somewhat difficult to come to terms with my new circumstances. On a similar note ... my friend has a 2:1 degree in mechanical engineering from Strathclyde. He also has a masters in some kind of IT thing from Imperial. It took him 9 months to get a job and he was applying for EVERYTHING (even slightly related)! |
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Is the SAGE course 3 days? Like seriously? All these jobs i see advertised ALL wanting SAGE. I'd pay for the course myself. /me goes off to look for SAGE courses in my area |
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Sorry for posting multiple times but;
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I just took this test to see how fast i was. Test Name Strategice alliances with competitors (test taken over 2 minutes) Gross Speed 62 words Errors 0 words Net Speed 62 words Accuracy 100% Does anybody think i should put 60 WPM on my CV (or are those online tests useless)? |
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It seems little more than a place to get people made ineligable for the unemployment figures so that Blair and Co can harp on about their low unemployment figures |
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Put it down you either can or cant type 60 words a minute, most people i'm sure could do so. Incidentally I did the test and got Test Name Strategice alliances with competitors (test taken over 2 minutes) Gross Speed 70 wpm Errors 2 words Net Speed 68 wpm Accuracy 97% |
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Yes Zar but GD isn't average.
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I seem to spend half my time going back and fixing my mistakes. I can feel myself making them, so I'm very quick at doing so - but the typing tests just don't care :( And yes, I'd put it on. |
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Same here :( BTW i just re-took the test using CPM and got 323. That works out at about 19.3k CPH. One of my friends (from work) went for some temp jobs and score a rate of 8k CPH and got the job. I am now so very unimpressed with his typing rate :) |
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Grr can only do 48 WPM. My problems my spelling, im so self aware of it that I spend too much time reading out the letters as im typing to make sure its right and then double checking the whole word. I really need to get out of that habit
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I am about to finish my masters (hopefully December bar any disasters, sudden onslaught of burnout or lazyness). I will have 2 degrees and no relevant experience. I expect my job search to be quite difficult, and am not too hopeful of landing a job that pays what I want to make (I will still search however). I will be open for work quite unrelated to any of my education. I have to get experience. That requires getting a foot in the door.
I have no skills at this moment that set me a part from any other person with a comparable level of education. Sure I can do web programming (PHP, JavaScript, XML, Mysql, and CSS - at professional levels), but a) those jobs suck and b) those jobs pay nothing and c) I have never worked with anyone in a collaberative environment and have always associated those skills as 'fun'. It's gonna be rough, and I have a ton of debt, and in the US there really is no 'Dole.' There's unemployment, but you only get it if you've been working and the return is not even enough to pay for rent (it's like $400 max a month in some states, others, less). My WPM is 77 :/ |
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60 WPM, 2 errors, net of 58 WPM.
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I don't think I'd ever go on the dole because it's shit. £44 a week is nothing. |
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