R32 stats and next round :p
 

ok here goes :p a long wall of text, i have no idea if you agree with this tho :p

not played in like 5 years :p but my first glance at the stats

Cath - 40% salvage - very good ships (dam/emp) vrs cost
CO attack fleet - taratulas as def ship. can take mostly all races. no need to go CR.

to good i think will dominate this round. (yes i have looked at race status atm :p)

Terrans - 20% salvage - DE ships for attack and def (own def) and harpy for ally def, even tho harpy sucks as flack vrs cath :/ now normaly a PA player will have a larger attack fleet then his def ships, cath CO will be to strong ect ect ( terran BS could work, but ur to big of a target for all cath CO and xan´s and will not beable to keep ur roids.

the DE fleet is to strong, and are only beaten by the cath fleets.


ETD - for me this look like a cool race as cath/zik in one would be fun, but a closer look at the steal formula, and its still to weak, but in def it works.
but that ETD would a constant CATh and Terran target would make this hard, but fun if your allowed to be big :p

steal need to get some love (not to much but alittel boost they fire last after all,

zik - well alot of ships that target all over the place, but suffers badly from high init, and a bad steal formula. and that there attack fleet needs to be more then just FR fleets, to target all ships. (terrans target all classes in there attack fleet, and cath (co) targets all ships that can target them. same with ETD there FR fleet alest can target all ships.

steal need to get some love (not to much but alittel boost they fire last after all, with the classes as they are now you need to look at what the zik ships targets and costs vrs steal ect.

xan - well this would race is cool in one way there def is very cool as they can fake alot :p but they suffer from this, they have no way of def vrs Caths, terrans (the few that build BS) and ETD

the 2 rounds i did play where xan where good they had 1 ship that did target all . (bad :p becouse they did build a fk load of it) and one other round they had the best INIT vrs all classes BUT cath, and they had cloaked ship.


.. for next round maybe ?

cath salvage - 10% bonus only. MAKE a big ship(CR/BS) target CO for ingal def. ??

terrans - Make the harpy more emp resistent agian, so that the BS fleet will work agian.

ETD - maybe give them one more steal ship (FI/CO) and a normal(cloak) anti CR/BS salvage 35% ?

Zik - fix the target system of there ships main ships for them to steal is FI/CO and CR/BS (terran bs and cath CO/FI) ;-) 40% salvage

xan - give them a FR fleet back and let them have a choise in attack fleet and give them INIT Best of all the no emp fleets agian. cloakship remains. and maybe give them a ship that does crap dam but HIGH emp resistens, to use as flak.

make the eta 1 lower ? ( BS/CR eta 9 DE/FR eta 8 - FI/CO eta 7 ) the PA system now have alot of ppl that are active and this change is minor . :p

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I'll probably end up doing the stats again next round so here are my thoughts!

cr/bs targetting co no, it's really gay and annoying that you can be covered by some faggot support planet no matter how hard you try to roid someone. the only alternative is fi/co targetting cr/bs which is horrifying and has never worked even once
Reduction in cath salvage sure, but quartering it? Wild over-reaction. I don't think that'll address the issue of cath strength though.
Terran fi yeah sure, give it a bump.
What the hell does etd need improvement for?
Zik I don't really know what you're talking about at all. And a ****ing salvage bonus? Was your last round actually r12?
Xan are a problem really, I'd remove the fi fleet, add a t2 to the rev, bring in an fr targetting say fi/co and add de t3 to the bomber. Might fiddle with the shadow as well, making it anti-cr and anti-bs.

My current thoughts, if we stayed with this stats iteration, would be changes as above to xan, reduce terran de armour by about 5%, switch the targetting of emp to t1 cr t2 bs, improve ter bs damage by about 5%, reduce cath emp efficiency by about 3-4%.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Round 13 Corsairs were ****ing awesome. EOD.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

JBG you wouldn't touch zik or etd? Zik has been very difficult this round, helping them out a bit with a slightly better attack fleet would have helped them a ton I think. No idea what to do with etd, they are just borked.

Having played Xan I agree with your general changes. Having both a FI and CO attack fleet was basically useless. Careful on the rev though, with the low init it's a dynamite ships with a T2, whatever it is (especially if it's CR ;)).

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Etd are adequately represented in the top 100 and top 500. I've seen plenty of good etd planets. They're a little like terran de with some defensive security sacrificed for offensive ability. ZIk aren't exactly under-represented this round in the main areas and knowing quite a few ziks this round I haven't heard many complaints from them about it being too difficult to play. I don't think zik should have a straightforward attacking option like a lot of people do, I think they should require some thought to play.

I expect, as always happens, cath will drop off a bit at the end of the round and the other races will move up a bit.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

the only problem ive found with Zik is that you cant really solo with your fr fleet with no anti fr/de in it, but you can always compensate for that with steals etc and teamups :) (or just not attack with it !)

Ive enjoyed zik so far, faking possibilites are endless too :D

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

The complaint I've been hearing about ziks is the one mentioned by Colt, namely it is nearly impossible to solo (accept against total newbies or the bots), you almost always have to team up to have success. This makes it very hard to play zik unless you have consistent team up options in either your galaxy or alliance. While zik have always been considered an advanced player option, forcing them to always team up is not good stats design in my opinion.

My other personal gripe with these stats is they don't force large players to spread their resources to cover all their defensive bases. Allowing races to spend ALL of their resources in one class (terran DE for example) or one class and one other ship makes big players very hard to hit. I would prefer to see the stats force the big players to spread their resources a bit more to make it easier for smaller players to stand a chance roiding bigger players.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

As for Xan!

Banshee Fi - Fr/De/- init 6
Phantom Fi - Co/-/- init 3
Revenant Co - Fi/Co/- init 5
Spectre Fr - De init 8 (after Drakes)
Bomber Fr - Cr/Bs init 10 (to shoot even after Mantis)
Bolt Thrower De - Fi/Co init 7+
Fi/Fr pods

Other changes due to Xan stats:
Locust init 4

These stats would be in addition of JBG's changes ("reduce terran de armour by about 5%, switch the targetting of emp to t1 cr t2 bs, improve ter bs damage by about 5%, reduce cath emp efficiency by about 3-4%").

Few thoughts about these stats;
Cath will have a lil harder time hitting Xans as they'd need to stun 100% of their fi/co to get a clean shot, though Locust shooting before Rev should keep Cath strong vs Xan. Giving Phantom a really low ERes is another option.
Spectre will "wtfpwn" Etd De the same way Drakes did with their Fr, however Etd's could fake their Tycoons as De and cap Spectres this way for free. Tycoons also cap Xan Fr for free on their attacks, but they on their turn can fake their Banshees. :)
Ter Harpies will still be a lil weak vs Xan Fi, but with a boosted ERes I think Harpies will be fine overall. Harpies + Phantoms will still stop a Xan attack.

Posting now, will undoubtably have overlooked several things, feel free to point them out. :)

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Colt solos fairly regularly, generally with fakes. He was just saying that it's hard for Zik to solo with their initial FR fleet.

Also, 'covering' defensive bases is a tradeoff, one that results in significantly less flexibility and attacking power. It also means the teamups that do launch on you tend to be even larger, so it's not all a good thing.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Personally, I've experienced zik as being pretty simple, actually. But then, I went the right fleet, so that helps. In def its pretty simple - get more numbers and the salvage will do the rest, which is why I haven't stolen much at all so far (despite attempts). For attack, you can easily solo cats (add pirates to cr) and xans are a joke to maras. And there's plenty of cat cr around, so you always have a teamup (or fake) partner.

I wouldn't choose for the fr fleet, though.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I disagree. When every race has to make these trade offs (as Xan does this round) it opens up the attack options and creates great attack opportunities, it simultaneously makes defending generally more difficult. This decreases the size of the team ups, not increases them, as players will not need as many fleets to attack a single target. Great example of what I mean is Xan this round. They have to spread their resources between three classes to cover their bases, Phantom, Pulsar, Bomber. Phantom and Pulsar are used to attack, bombers on defense.

Xans can still attack reasonably well this round, often without requiring a teamup, yet because their resources are spread between three classes it makes them easier to hit. The major disadvantage for Xans this round is that other races do not have to do this anywhere as near as much, making it easy for smaller players to hit them. I myself am hit regularly by cath players who have 20 to 30% less value then myself, yet I can often have significant trouble hitting a cath or terran player who is greater then 75% of my own value because their fleets are often highly concentrated. Some of this may have to do with targeting as JBG has suggested, but some if it certainly has to do with the fleet concentration advantages of cath and terran.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

You've misunderstood me - the tradeoff I'm talking about is the massive sacrifice in attack and flexibility that having all my (Terran DE) ships in one class gives against the bonus of not being as vulnerable to small teamups.

If you want every race to be exactly the same then say so - I like stats that allow the kind of broader strategic decisions of how I intend to play my round. There are advantages and disadvatages to each fleet around at the moment - I think you've got it wrong in saying that there are no disadvatages in some races.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I never said there are races with no disadvantages, my comment was to point out that Xan has a major disadvantage the other races don't have that contributes to the lack of balance in the stats.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

There's not even a single mention of Xan in the post I responded to. You certainly seemed to suggest that you didn't think Terran DE had many drawbacks - I was pointing out that this definitely isn't the case.

I agree though, Xan need some help. The other races are fine, just slight tweaks needed.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

From my point of view as an etd its not defensive security thats an issue; it may look like there is a gaping hole for terr de to sail through, I was worried about it to start with its not proven to exist. On the other hand ive been hoping that Terr de does come because even at an awesome high cost I would sacrifice score for drakes. This is because while I have been on holiday and having trouble being on and thus teaming up it is simply not possible to land without a big loss because any etd can block another etd with a few k tycs, the tycoon is also not good enough to take on the drake while on the offensive. Yes etd are good at shooting down, and ok at shooting up but really it only needs one hole to leave an offensive in ruins, I have not landed on a person with even an avarage alliance in weeks. If I noob bash I can land but i thought this was the round we r supposed to aim high.
For the record ppl attacking me have almost all hit me at my strongest point xan fi/co pulsar heavy.

I would probably remove the spider giving them more trouble shooting down and give them something firing across at other fr/de.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I normally play Xan, but after getting frustrated with it (and crashing!) I reset and went cath. I think not having a roiding fleet outside fi/co hurt them in these stats.

Terran seem fine, maybe a small nerf to the DE. Cath emp efficiency could stand a small nerf. Give Xan either/or fi/co and add a fr fleet. I almost went Zik this round (never played 'em really) so I think they look good...and *should* be a little harder to play (read: require more thought). Played with Etd in the beta and they looked good, thought about going them aswell.

I was thinking about using Zaejii's set for next round actually, then perhaps using a modified version of this set for the round after depending on how it goes next round.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Stop resetting the stats every round. Seriously. For once in the history of PA I would like to see a set of stats last longer than two rounds. Stick with JBG's stats for next round, let him fix what's broken and I guarantee you'll see a better set of stats than what others could come up with.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

!

(yes I forgot Shadow first time ^^)

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

im playing zik fr with corsair mainly

got a few caps so im doing fi/co attack and fr (mainly all zik) attacks with cath and etd teamups for both those fleets.

Id have to say theres nothing drastically wrong with zik the way im playing it the fr flacks itself fine to stop fi/co and cr/bs only issue is the strength of the anti fr/de in corsair. Even with my steal of fi/co my corsair get dicked vs against any emp. Would it be possible to increase the emp res of the corsair slightly? not asking it to move over to a co as i think it would just become too powerful but atm i can spam like 500k+ corsair and still get ****ed shitless by a etd and it can be a pain to def even shitty solo's

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Making Xan the way I suggested would provide u a lot more Fi flak, munkee! Everybody will be happy \o.

Boosting Corsair's ERes seems like a good idea though, to ~135-140% avg eff or something.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

My opinion:

Generally I think these stats worked out pretty much alright. Cathaar are a bit too strong as expected and Xan a bit weak. I don't think we need major changes to balance things.

The Harpy doesn't need higher ERes. It already is amazingly high. Many Terrans get their Harpies emped because they build only a few, since they focuss on De. Make Bs a better option and people with fi/co fleets will start complaining about all those amazing Harpy defence fleets. Due to their high ERes, Harpies are especially hard to emp when flakked. I stole a few and flak them with my corsairs.

About Terran De: I'm not a fan of people digging in and building just one shipclass. I also prefer somewhat offensive stats. This game is about attacking and defending; it's not Sim Planet. Some variety makes the game a lot more interesting. Reducing Terran De armor a bit could make this happen, but I'd just make the Pegasus a Frigate.
Improving Bs damage a bit to compensate sounds fair, but I'm not sure it's necessary if you simultaneously reduce Emp. Terrans are pretty strong already. Alternatively reduce Terran Bs armor 1 or 2 points and compensate that by making them slightly cheaper, thus effectively improving their damage and ERes a few percent. No further emp reductions necessary.

I don't see the point in switching the emp targetting for Cr/Bs. The race most effected would be Ziks since they have both Cr and Bs. I see no need for this change.

Xan could use some improvement. Don't overdo it however. Plugging one hole makes them a lot stronger overall. Adding T3 De to the bomber would affect specifically Etd. De attacks already are easy to stop with Drake/Tycoon. Don't add a cloaked ship to that list.
If you change the Shadow to Bs/Cr, then it needs to be nerfed a bit. Such a change mostly affects Ziks (but they can steal ships to solve this). Maybe change its initiative, so Terrans can land on it.

I am Zik and I really like them this round. Plenty of Cathaar to land on. Improving the Corsair is not necessary imo. Every race should have its weakness.
Attacking with just Thieves and Buccaneers is indeed pretty hard, but when you land it on someones fleet, it gives you very usefull ships. This is what Zik is about: attacking should be possible, but not too easy without steals. Stealing should help to make your fleet stronger.

Edit: plz also change Chimaera to Cr/Bs and Dragon to Bs/Cr (improved offensive capabilities).

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I don't normally get involved in talking about stats as I'm sick of making stats in other games I played but since I'm a zik player this round ill state my point of view.

Firstly maybe slight salvage bonus increase be nice but not 100% needed.

Secondly I am top 100 been top 100 pretty much all round in a smaller alliance aswell but not kept out of the firing line at all had my share of incoming.

Thirdly I went cr/bs attack and fi/co defence using pirates to defend some nights this worked well all round you steal cath or xan smaller ships and pods and you got a strong 2nd attack fleet so zik has been good.

Reason zik has been good is not generally playing ability its got more to do with fact its summer round and I never seen so many suicidiers or people leaving fleet home in my pa life so ziks got lucky this round.

Yes many times I defended with cath but due to the large cath salvage bonus zik suffers with that that's why I mentioned increasing zik salvage bonus.

I have attacked all round solo apart from ally target assigning and never had a problem.

Not looked at other races but I enjoyed the stats this round they looked ewwwww but turned out to be fun so welldone to jbg.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I'm pretty sure (but yeah, not entirely) that the Cathaar salvage bonus is applied after salvage is split between defending fleets, so your share of the salvage shouldn't be decreased by the presence of a Cathaar defender.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

That's definitely what the ingame calc suggests as well.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Then I stand corrected just seems weird that's all I must not send enough value or something

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

The Cathaar salvage bonus applies only to their own lost ships, and salvage for one's own ships is only given to the person himself, not any other defenders.

Quick calc to support this: http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=fjfgfa1a7bxvuo8

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

This just isn't true. It also affects terran bs fleets in teamups quite a lot. Targeting was too heavily anti-bs over cr focused for me. Obviously taking what I said above as my final thoughts, or even relevant thoughts as I haven't spoken to anyone on pateam yet, doesn't make much sense. Yes, I'll obviously compensate for any changes made. I'm considering trying something with etd so we'll see what I can come up with there. Trust me, I know how stats work and that making big changes just leads to unforeseen consequences. I'll try and avoid that as much as possible.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Hmm, I don't think any t1/t2 changes are needed. It makes cath cr alot weaker on attack imo, and also weaker on def, while terrans have massive benifit from it and I feel they roid well enough already with their bs fleet.
It would also lead to dragons/pirates being better on defense.
For zik I like the current t1/t2 too because pirates flak very well for mara's, I like that ziks have a viable solo fleet.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I ve found ETD to be quite solid this round.
with my horrible activity, I managed to get roids when I was still attacking, and also been rather alright to cover the incs I got. Ter de isnt that hard to stop at all. The tycoon is cool, and the DE fleet is nice to team with ter DE.

That being said, its been fking boring to play etd though. No fake possibilities at all really... I wont be playing ETD next round with these stats...

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

You thought there would be when you picked it this round?

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

No I didnt. Did I ever say so?

I picked etd because gal would be going pure DE. And since I came home an hr or so before ticks started, I ended up being the etd ingal ...

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

It's just that complaining about etd not having faking possibilities is a bit like complaining about xan not having a cr/bs roiding fleet. Obviously it's true but it's really saying anything meaningful about the stats as they are.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I m not really complaining. I knew this preround, I just didnt think I would find it THIS boring.
Also, I am kinda contributing -> make fun stats.

the current set is boring.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I tried to give as many options as possible. Some things are more solid than others. I never really know what interesting things to do with etd as they're such a ****ing half-assed tag-on to the game unfortunately. We tried cloak+emp but pateam just sort of killed that and we went back to the current pointless gimp-like faggotry. Any and all cool ideas for etd will be listened to!

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

agreed. Get etd removed then...
However, since that wont happen, dont give 1 race 2 roidingclasses in 1 "megaclass" ( or whatever u wanna call it - fi/co fr/de cr/bs )
with xan this is doable cause they can still fake some, but also removes parts of their advantage. This also gives you fortress planets, atleast when done fr/de ( ter this round is horribly shit, who can solo roid ter de? ).
Change etd fr or de into fi or co or cr or bs.
Or--- just give them 1 pod class, and a chance to steal one more.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Etd is supposedly a bunch of scavengers, right? What about they're the only race with pods in all 3 metaclasses (since it would stand to reason they'd have all kinds of crap), but so that none of the attack classes can really attack solo, so they'd have to team up always. Variety of normal/emp.

Maybe cloaked as compensation for lack of solo capabilities. Kinda like a zik cr fleet teaming up with cat cr (arguably one of the more land-likely teamups this round), leaving pirates home.

More options, more holes. Kinda ends up to what zik is this round imo, except not stealing? Dunno... Just something that came to mind :P

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Xans...??

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

only if the xans go for a seriously gimped fleet ;) That said, some xans did... if xan overall gets better, ter de will be a little worse.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

imo no need to weaken terran DE, but instead up terran BS (more firepower) and dont force every terran to go DE

maybe a fr roiding fleet for xans and in exchange a bs roiding fleet for etd (instead of the fr one)

corsair less firepower but therefor co class

my 5 cents

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

steal + cloak

Wishmaster CO target FI and CO Steal
Junglemuffin DE target CO Cloak
Assassin DE target FR DE Cloak
JBG DE target BS CR Steal
Benneh CR target FR Cloak <<< every race needs a useless ship :p
IsildurX BS target CR DE Steal
Appocomaster BS target BS Cloak

for exampel :banana:

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

You need to call any stealer a lith nick at least!

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I found cath CO especially hard to stop and especially easy to roid with. If I would fake my Co as Cr on any ter(BS)/zik(other then fr)/xan/cath(Cr) I can just land it on CO power alone, even if their fleet is home.

Then there is no really valid defence option to kill cath CO unless you throw like double the value in defence. Only beetle can cover with less value then the attacking fleet. Tbh why not get some of those Cr/Bs targetting CO back for ingal def. I used to like that kind of stuff.

There are more flaws as mentioned before; Ter De, Etd Fr/De.
I dont think Xan has big issues other then a terrible weakness for cath CO like every other race, depending on setup.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

The keyword this round is Locust!

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Aye, any alliance able to get a significant number of caths to build a def fleet of locusts can cover far easier than any half-assed alliance just throwing ships at incs until they go away.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Of course, but the point remains. Cath CO has an easy time roiding whoever they choose while fending them off can be quite difficult. Let alone killing part of their fleet on an expensive land.

That was just my observation. Of course there is a way to kill them, but choice is quite limited as already shown in tobbe his post since he can only come up with one keyword.

When comparing cath CO with the other CO fleet (Xan), cath CO is by far more hard to defend against. Xan can be covered by locust + beetle so easily, or Revenant even, if they sent fi. Anyway, this was my most important observation. Overall I liked this rounds stats, Im just giving some points which could be tweaked.

As for possible solutions, making revenant target fi+co would be one. Another one would be switching Beetles targetting to Co/Fi rather then Fi/Co.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I only wrote down that one as thats the race we both play, and a decent share of the universe...

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

so we have harpy/locust/cutlass/phantom. That compares well versus:

tycoon/drake/pulsar/corsair for De
chim/dragon/bomber/buc/pirate/devastator for Cr/Bs

Thats just killships and only the ones which target the class adequatly well to kill something. Also I left out anything which cannot make alliance eta.

One thing I would note is how many of these killships are actually present in ones attack fleet, and thus abundant. For Fi/Co the only ships which are good for attack as well as stopping cath CO would be Beetle/Locust. This while Drake/Tycoon/Pulsar are all excellent and thus already present in a targets fleet. The same goes for Tarantula/Dragon/Chimaera/Devastator and to a lesser extent Pirate.

Hence the suggestion, as already given by Aif and JBG before in this thread, to give revenant CO as a 2nd target. More stuff needs to kill cath CO imo. I hope we can agree on that?

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

how about something like this for edt

tycoon co fr/de steal
defender de fi/co emp(or maybe normal?)
guard de bs/cr cloacked
lancer bs de cloacked
dev bs cr/bs emp

and give them co de and bs pods? atlest de bs

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

I've played Cath this round and the obvious choice for me was to rush for CR. I can't complain about the stats. I have 3 roiding possibilities: Xan tremendously weak vs CR, Cath... advantage goes to attacker in emp vs emp same init, and Ziks.

ETD and pure Ter DE are not hittable unless picking a lowbie or going for team ups (which I don't like).
I would go again for the same choice if the stats remained, coz it gives real chances to solo.

I found Cath CO and any Fico team up the easiest to stop despite the low eta, probably because no matter what a Cath is going for he will build loads of Beetles.
The most annoying has been mixed team ups with for example the support BS fleets being used to suck all the emp, allowing a free ride to the CR.

Overall I found the stats good and was able to enjoy some fine 1 on 1 attacks, old style.
What I dislike the most is more and more and bigger team ups, more and more escorting (worse when it's for the profit of a top player).
I don't know how or if a set of stats could affect that. It's just the set of minds that seems wrong.

I see no tweak necessary for the current stats (I like the currents strentghs and weaknesses), I would be ok to see them again next round.

Re: R32 stats and next round :p
 

Please give me a link to the game youre playing o_O