Higher education in Norway.
 

As follows is the situation in Norway these days concering higher education contra, well, less education.

To illustrate my story better I will introduce a typical Norwegian boy, Odin. Odin is 16 years old and has just finished a sort of primary school we have here in Norway. Now he must make a choice of what to do with his life; what kind of profession does he see himself in ten years from now?

He doesn't want to work at McDonald's, so he guesses he wants a job that requires an education.

There are selveral paths he can persue. The word University naturally comes to his mind, which of course is one of these paths. If he wants to go to University he'll have to go to a higher level school for three more years to be allowed in at all. He'll be 19 when he's finished with this school. This is what most Norwegian kids do.

Also he wants to enter a sort of secluded course at the University that requires that you have had subjects in maths and physics and chemistry. Furder to have a chance of getting in he needs good grades, which means he'll have to spend a lot of time studying for these grades. Eventually he finishes, good work behind him and good grades on a piece of paper.

From 19 to 20 he spends a year in the Norwegian Army, as is demanded of him by Norwegian law.

Finally enrolled at the University Odin studies hard, doing more maths and physics and chemistry for five more years.

Now he's 25 and his education is completed. Getting a job isn't easy, despite his good education (actually for some with high education there are no jobs to be had), but eventually he gets a job with a salary of about 280k Norwegian Kroner (25k £ approximately) a year. But let's not forget that in these five years he's had to take up a student loan, (80k NOK * 5 years = 400k NOK = 35k £ approximately.) and has to put two years of salary into paying it back.


Now let's go back a few years to when Odin was 15. If he had wanted to he could have settled for another kind of education. For instance what in English terms goes for a tech school. There he would spend two years at school following some craft, such as becoming an electrician.

After that he'll have to work two years as an apprentice in a firm. (Getting the apprenticeship won't be a problem, electricians are in great demand in Norway these days). After that, the firm will probably hire him. At a beginners wage of 300k (27k £ a year approximatly). Now he'll probably enter the army.

After a year in the force he'll be 20. With no student loan he has to pay back. Making lots money. His education far less demanding than the other I described.


And that's the end of the story. Don't know why it got so long. But if you scrolled past it, here's a short version:

Longer education, hard work, huge student loan - less money.

Shorter education, not as hard work, no stuent loan - more
money.

This is making some people upset. But that's what happens when electricians are in demand and higher educated peopler are not.


What I'm also aiming for is this: Is working your way through five years of difficult subjects at University for less pay worth it because of the intellectual gains you sit back with?
I guess that depends on what kind of person you are.

I say yes.



Matrim

it depends what kind of person you are really, if you are going to make the most of your degree, then go get it, if not, then don't, cos all you will do is put yourself in a ****load of debt for no good reason.

yeah.

i'd have to say the question is whether after all those years you actually get to use those skills you learned.

if not, it's a complete waste (you could have learned 99% of the same stuff without spending a decade of your life and zillions of kroners).

A) You can work while at uni
B) If you don't work at uni, that's years of your life that you don't have to work.
C) Intellectual gains???

Re: Higher education in Norway.
 

There's also the longer-term earning potential, which you may be overlooking. Salaries for new graduates are often low, since they have to prove they can apply knowledge as well as learn it. Eventually, though, it should lead to a lot higher earnings.

If you simply want to learn for your own personal satisfaction, you can do that on your own for a lot less money than you'd end up paying to a University.

Which part of those two words did you not comprehend?





Matrim

Neither. It's their combination with the context of "university" that I'm confused about.

Re: Re: Higher education in Norway.
 

Actually, (atleast as far as i know) the average life-time earnings of people who start working right after the military is higher than for us who pursue the noble goal of being pretending to get a higher education.

Still; Matrim isn't exactly comparing relevant figures. An electrian typically tops off a little above 300k, and then he's most likely working his ass off. While starting salaries for higher education generally are 280-320 with normal workhours even..

IMO, If you're going to pity somebody, pity the poor fools who study non-engineering subjects and end up with being teachers :)

16? When I was 16 I wanted to be a electronic engineer. That went horrifically bad, and now I'm a graphic artist.

The career you end up being is almost never the one you choose.

Re: Higher education in Norway.
 

If true, that's pretty horrible. In the US, each year of post-High School education adds an average of about $100K to one's expected lifetime earnings. How did Norway manage to turn higher education into a money-losing proposition???

I am going second year in upper secondary school (VK2) this year, thus making me 17 years of age. I go all-round education (allmenn) and after my three years here and one year of army I plan to study computer science in University. Now those who have payed attention to the news lately would know that the demand of computer scientists is rather low compared to how many has this education. Many actually works for free, just to get some job experience. But all this does not frighten me. Simply because it is computers that is my interest, and I could never imagine myself as an electrician. The five years at university will not be wasted, because I would do something that I enjoy and have a great interest of.

Re: Re: Higher education in Norway.
 

I think this has to do with the fundamental believes in these countries. In the USA, you have 'the American dream', everyone for themselves etc. You get rewarded for doing good by yourself. In Norway the mentality is more 'one for all and all for one', and when success is not rewarded, you will get the situation you now have in Norway (and I am sure, many other countries).

Re: Higher education in Norway.
 

All of that seems eerily familiar to anyone whos experienced the irish education system also.

Please elaborate on what you think is wrong.


Studying subjects and learning more about them increases your intellect. Thus 'intellectual gains' means here all the things you've learned while studying. Be it for instance a grand insight in the past thousand year's history and how it is shaping our future.


I can't see what you're getting at, if anything.




Matrim

Lets not forget to mention; some people seem to believe that a higher education leads to more interesting jobs..

i think they're in for a disappoiment when they studies end though:)