Tactical Retreating
 

It's always struck me as strange that a fleet will go into a battle that is so hopelessly one-sided that it will inevitably be destroyed. I propose adding the ability to retreat from such battles. For each fleet slot, the player would be able to enter a number from 0 to 999, which determines how big an enemy fleet has to be before that fleet automatically runs away.

For example, entering 200 will cause your fleet to abandon an attack (or automatically run defence) when enemy forces outnumber non-enemy forces by 200% (outnumbering is determined by ship cost, not actual 'number of ships', to stop fighter-based fleets outweighing battleship fleets).

'Running away' could be programmed quite simply: At the start of any combat calculation, calculate the purchase cost of all hostile ships and of all defence, calculate the relative % sizes of each and then remove any fleets that have retreat values lower than the calculated numbers.

The co-ordinates of any retreating ships would be listed in battle reports, which would make very interesting tactical information for alliances!

This feature would replace the old 'fake attack' fleet option, since running from a fleet 1% of your size woud achieve the same result.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Ugh, no.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

So this would only be an option when attacking (not defending or fleets at home)?

Such an option might be OK when attacking or defending, although I doubt it will fly with the 'activity über alles' crowd. Having this option for home fleets would make fleet kills nearly impossible, which would also annoy some people.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Basing the retreat threshold on fleet value is a very bad thing. That completely devalues fake defence - by allowing the attacker to set a threshold such that the fleet recalls unless the value of the defending ships is sufficiently low that it can't be real. Whether based on numbers or value it would also need to take into account the target's own fleet to be of any use: are you proposing that prelaunched ships (which don't fight) are or are not included in the calc? And what about ordered ships that come out the tick you land?

Ultimately your proposal would either take into account a lot of factors that the attacker isn't entitled to know or would be useless. Just knowing that there IS defence at all isn't something an attacker's entitled to know unless he has access to someone able to scan the target.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

else you could just send mass fi to def any target and it would be retreated always:D kinda weird...:P

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

If you look at it from a real life point of view (yes i know PA != reality), then why should a fleet NOT enter such a battle, if it has no information about the enemies size in advance? You could, however, reasonably argue a fleet will probably disobey it's orders and run when ambushed by a supreme force, but that would almost inevitably lead to quite high losses. So in that case there should be some default loss rate for the running fleet.

Opens up the door to spirit/morale values for fleets and such, quite a complex matter.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Thanks for that eloquent and well reasoned post.


I think it should apply to defending and fleets at home too, I only mentioned it replacing 'fake attack' because that's somthing that's been in PA. It would also replace 'fake defend' and 'fake stay at home', if we had such things.

Fleet kills on people who are not active enough to run their fleets are, I believe, a very bad thing for PA, and it's to get rid of this very issue that I'm proposing this idea.


But is fake defence a good thing? Doesn't this idea add the concept of sending 'real' fake defence... actual high value ships, but sent at no risk because of a 1% flee value?

I propose this implemented by including all ships that would normally fight in the battle.

I'd envisaged the attacking fleet simply getting on with their main business: capturing roids (and structure-killing in the case of anti-structure ships). I see why a default loss would be appealing, but it rather defeats the anti-bashing purpose it'd intended the suggestion to have.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

tbh it's hard enough to kill fleets as it is now.... let's not make it even harder ?:D

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

but this way you don't HAVE to kill the fleets to get to the roids!

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

You want to kill your enemies fleets though.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Not always

Indeed you want the "last" wave to kill his fleet

Whilst the first few waves dont kill as much so you suck the most xp out of the target before the final wave crushes him :)

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

This is such a bad idea that "Ugh, No" is enough to convey what most of us already know. However

Are you going to have a full battle calc run, so that its changed up by targetting types and so forth? Ie if you sent 1000 Destroyers, and your opponent defends as if its 10000 Frigates, (ie way overkill for the wrong class), will your fleet still run?

How about if you have 999 Fighters and 1 sacrificial Frigate and they defend vs frigates. Will you have that 1 Frigate say "Um no, I'm calling this party off" because he's 1000% outnumbered?

This idea would add a huge amount of complexity to the game for an idea that has little popular support, and would not benefit players who played by skill.

As to Envious's talking about a "Reality Factor" . Perhaps Fleets in transit can not be communicated with. You can only recall them by shutting down the Jumpgate they just went through, and you can't even fire it back up until they've returned. Once they arrive on the other side, the mythical, uncounted "Command Ship" that Spinner speaks of, has to open up the jumpgate that the other ships will return through. This is hardly an instant process and so the fleet has no option to retreat, they have to fight for their tick and take their licking. Should account for most details...

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Yeah, there's several critical problems with this suggestion unfortunately.

Knowing Andy_r though, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a refined idea :)

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

hmmm weird
Me dont like

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Other things that seem funny:
1) There's a whole planet full of little minions, but if one guy's asleep nobody can do anything. Nobody calls for help from the alliance, nobody moves ships out of the way or makes new ones, or mount any kind of defence.
2) The ministers running your various departments are so incompetent that you can't trust them with simple instructions. You simply have to micromanager every little thing with these people. What part of "Just keep initiating as many asteroids as you can afford... I'll be awake in 8 hours" is so hard to comprehend.
3) Or the following imagined scenario.
Junior Officer: "Sir we have to launch now!"
Admiral : " Why? We're not ready, our fleet may not be back for another tick"
Junior Officer: " The guys over in procurement ordered some extra Fighters a few ticks back, and if we wait, they'll be finished and we won't be able to launch an attack! He'll be 40% of our value "
Admiral: "Eh? What? isn't being bigger than our hated enemy a good thing?"

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

This option will mkae a bug which is contained by this way in defending, people will send high value ships without considering waht can they target, so the will build just battleshipss for defence and attack or even detroyers, then it won't make a difference if that BS doesn't target any kind of ships from thea ttacking fleet, right or wrong??

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Ugh, no.

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Stop attacking my friends :(

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Umm, prob with this (and even if it weren't for coming point I still don't like it) You no longer need ships that shoot the right target class, say he's attacking with 1k xan fr, his targetget like say 20k cutlass def which wouldn't shoot at him but would add value to def fleet, thus removing ANY tacktics from defending OR attacking fleet composition, in other words, it kills combat fun. Fleettraps are impossible. Imho it would take all fun out of combat :down:

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

Even without that prob it would make combat boring, no tension. It's a wargame, get over that you have some losses sometimes or miscalc! The other person did a good job at getting deffence them, good for him, your loss is his gain, same for you if you cap roids while you're way under his fleet value!

Re: Tactical Retreating
 

This is a bad idea becuase it removes skill from the game people should have to make theese decisions for themselves.