People leaving
 

It seems this is the round for people to quit the game because of a blindingly foolish pa team that have no will to try and keep the stalwart players. How is the game to progress with such fools in charge??

pls flame below

Re: People leaving
 

What are you talking about?

[edit]Let me rephrase that. What are you accusing PA Team of (not) doing?

Re: People leaving
 

If you really read leaving messages and suggestion forums you wouldn't ask that question

Re: People leaving
 

im prolly leaving again after this round:P
not cause of pa team though, and tbh thats just some bollocks reason they are using.

if pa still had players left they wouldnt leave even if they got closed for bollocks reasons.

Re: People leaving
 

Ah, so this is a guessing topic then, is it?

Re: People leaving
 

People cheated so now they quit!

Re: People leaving
 

i've heard rumours of PATeam corruption and lack of objectivity, could this be true? :o

Re: People leaving
 

In 20'ish rounds of PA I have never cheated and though I find myself now with a closed planet in c200 only days away from being auto-deleted...
I can still say I've never cheated :)

Re: People leaving
 

Its only cheating if u get caught

Re: People leaving
 

who cares, its not like they get refunds

:up:

Re: People leaving
 

Two out of four posts isn't a majority, two posts alone isn't a lot.
OP: please quantify your post with some evidence to back your claim up.

Re: People leaving
 

what where they closed for?

I want to quit also u see, and could need a good excuse.

Re: People leaving
 

9 out of tag defmissions in 600 ticks :D

Re: People leaving
 

I'm not getting the point of this thread (if there is one...).

It's been my experience that since OMAC took over, they're listening to the players far more than they have since I started in r3.

I certainly don't remember any polls from Spinner regarding likes/dislikes, and asking what I think should be improved/removed/added to the game.

Making the game free after 15 or whatever rounds of PTP seems like a pretty big improvement in and of itself.

Re: People leaving
 

the free play thing was a good gesture... but lets face it - everyone still ****ing paid.

and putting a poll on the forums is a very good way to make you think somebody's listening... doesn't mean they actually are though.

Re: People leaving
 

But that was exactly OMAC's objective. They look like heroes, but their income is negligibly affected. And, if new players do start to arrive, they will find it easier to get into a free game (and then, hopefully become addicted and join the "hardcore" players, and end up paying too).

Anyways this isn't on topic.

Re: People leaving
 

Both OMAC and Appoco made it clear they expected (wrongly, it t urns out, but nevertheless) only a small portion of the player base to pay. While OMAC can't be blamed for not knowing the intricacies of the game, Appoco hopelessly underestimated the impact the bonusses granted when players do upgrade (as did I, though I did predict more people would update than they expected), and players are so used to paying that they see little reason not to grab whatever little advantage they can. Also keep in mind that (for example) scanners need to upgrade, because the scans of unpaid planets only last for 1-2 ticks; that's 10% of the alliance-based playerbase right there.

I cannot access PA from work, could someone post the ratio paid:unpaid planets? And Appoco, could you post some figures from past rounds, if you have them? I'm wondering if this new upgrade scheme has had any effect whatsoever.

[edit]
On a sidenote, this:is retarded.

Re: People leaving
 

Well, seeing how there has been quite a while since I'we mentioned it, I'd tought I just schould say, "ay" for this one. Well, that and it has been far to long since I'we rambeled something useless on these forums.
Altho, I woun't blame it on the pepole in charge. Just the rules, regulations, and the never dwelling death of fun in planetarion.
So here is my (more or) less constructive contribution on how to make planetarion a better game for the future, as allways. fun > *

Re: People leaving
 

Well.. played few rounds and like the game, but the actions of PA Team this round (and in in past few rounds) has been too retarded for my taste.

I might keep playing in the future rounds for the game itself and ppl playing the game but i won't put any more money in this. I think this won't kill PA yet but if we are unlucky we are wondering after next few rounds what went wrong and then these things pop up again.. when it's too late.

Anyways, have fun and gg.

Re: People leaving
 

Could you be a little bit more specific? I honestly don't see how PA Team have been any worse the last 2 rounds than they've been in the 8 rounds before that.

Re: People leaving
 

Willzzz closed without warning for 6-7 deffleets in 500 ticks,
Me closed without warning for 9 deffleets in 600 ticks.

Can't speak about willzzz case caus i don't know the details but in my case:
- MH's failing to have any common sence (9 deffleets created an unfair advantage... ya right)
- MH's making up new rules to justify my closure (the person that can point out the "you can't 'act' as a planet of ally x" or the "you can't recieve def from an alliance if you're not in a tag" rules anywhere in the EULA or announcements gets a free beer!)
- MH's refusing to listen to anyone who could confirm my story
- MH's making up a fake confession by Reese in which she admitted I was a Denial support planet when in fact that convo never happened
- ...

Don't know if they did that in the 8 rounds before that though

Re: People leaving
 

The rules are pretty simple. If you're out of tag, and defending your alliance, you're a support planet. While I think the rule itself is a load of bollocks, I do abide by it, because I believe there should be a common framework within which everyone operates. If everyone broke the rules they didn't agree with, we might as well not have any at all.

By your own words you were sending an illegal defence fleet every second night. I cannot draw any other conclusion than that your closure was harsh, but fair. It's not like you're some clueless newbie who didn't know what he was doing, so the fact that you claim ignorance is pretty laughable.

As for fake logs, the MH team has nothing to gain from making up stories about you. I am almost certain they genuinely believed the log was real, and that you were the victim of some malicious third party. Nevertheless, the log should not have played a role in deciding your guilt, though of course you can't ever be sure.

A lot of the context in which all of this takes place is missing from your post. Someone pointing out "you can't 'act' as part of ally X" could just as easily have been trying to explain to you what you did wrong (and that explanation does seem like a pretty accurate one). Your bias (let's not waste time denying it) makes it impossible to determine exactly what happened.

Satisfy my curiosity though, what was your "story"?

Re: People leaving
 

That is a pretty serious accusation, one that, if it's true, will bring the MH team in serious discredit. Shouldn't this be looked at by somebody else then the MH team?

Re: People leaving
 

Short story:
I started out the round as an applicant in Denial, send some def when I (+50% of the active universe) was still out of tag.
Decided myself I wasn't going to be able to play active enough for Denial, told the hc's & left (around tick 200 or so).
Remained solo untill my closure (around tick 600), after my departure from Denial all I did was send occasional attacks and have some fun.

All i've done wrong this round is deciding for myself I wasn't active enough to play for a top alliance like Denial and let them recruit someone else to take up my place in tag.

I know the support planet rule is there for a reason, but there is a difference between an actual support planet and what I did imo

Re: People leaving
 

In that case it would be Reese's word against Fiery's...
Guess who PA-team would believe ;-)

Personally I believe Reese, as she has always been honest with me :)

Re: People leaving
 

1. For what it is wurth, I'd close you for beeing a multi soly on these fact's Vdm. ;)
2. Stop whineing. We all know pa isn't about haveing fun, but to play by a set of rules?
3. Actual suport planets won't be closed, when they are tought trough and not used randomly. ;)

Re: People leaving
 

So does that make 9 defence missions in 400 ticks? Either way, this seems pretty clear to me. You were not in the tag and defended it more than a few times.

Allow me to repeat myself:

Re: People leaving
 

What log? Fiery telling me after Reese told her I wasn't a support planet for Denial that Reese told her I was a support planet?
:salute:

Re: People leaving
 

How about next round MH's close everyone that sends out of tag defence between t72 & 200-250.
Sure will be a fun round with half of the t5 alliances closed ;)

Re: People leaving
 

And again (three times is the charm): While you may believe the multihunters are incompetent, they are not evil.

I see you didn't answer the question.

Re: People leaving
 

I guess that all depends who your friends are ;)

I'm sorry I missed the question there.

Actually that makes 9 defence missions in 100-150 ticks and none in 400 ticks after that

Re: People leaving
 

How many def missions are allowed, what is 'few' exactly?
And why it is allowed sometimes and sometimes it isn't? What part of the rules define the timeline?

And tbh, i didn't know bout that Fiery telling stories part, but if the only way to try escape from the whining of player after you make stupid decision is trying to lie you shouldn't be in that position doing those tasks nor making those calls tbh.

Same goes with the lot spoken thing with the rollback & fleet recall accident. PA Team should be able to see the full situation and make decision that are equally fair to mainly all players/alliances. And after lots of ppl are telling their point of view about it on irc (#planetarion was at times so grouded that i wasn't able to finish up reading someones line before it dissappeared from my screen) and on forum you still blindly carry on with the idiotic and unfair decision instead of listening the mass and change your mind (even if it means that you need to say that you made bad choise in the first place) to the direction that would be fair and please way more bigger bunch of players (paying customers) is something i can not understand.

I've lost my faith on current PA Team or atleast to part of it and your angst won't change that mz. You just start to look more annoying to me while trying to so much speak for them.

Anyways.. won't bitch about this anymore. Rollin the round till it ends and you can count how many payed planet did drop out and how much less ppl you have still playing the game. Like said before, i might still keep playing but paying is out of question...

Thanks for your time and interest!
<3

Re: People leaving
 

Hmm. That does changes things a bit in my opinion, in that I don't think it's as much a breach as what you said earlier. It's also a bit strange you got closed at tick 600 for something you did before tick 200.

Looking at it from the other side of the fence, the support planet rule is a very well known factor in PA. There is no exception for out of tag defence before tick 200.

Overall, had I been a multihunter, I'd have left it at a warning. So it goes.

I'll reiterate something I said earlier though. The support planet is a load of bollocks, as are alliance limits. They prevent me from playing inactively if I so choose, they prevent me from playing with the people I want to and they prevent my alliance from recruiting players that may not contribute to my alliance's score. The 15 spots in each tag that do not contribute do absolutely nothing to solve the problem, because those 15 spots can be (and are being) used for scanners and defenders. The fact that is not only still exists, but was reinstated after Fiery's initiative to kill it back in r25 is a testament to Cin's inability to look further than the end of his own nose.

I don't think you know what the word 'angst' means. I hope this post is more to your liking, my sole purpose here is to entertain the masses.

Re: People leaving
 

This is what pissed me off the most, I could have understood their decision to consider me a support planet if they had done it at tick 200-250 or so and together with me they would have closed all other alliance players that were still out of tag but had send def (rules count for everybody right?).
To close me 350-400 ticks later (when defence towards Denial stopped completly) however is something I just don't understand no matter how they try to justify it

If this was actually the case, then shitloads of planets should have been closed before t200, that is, if they actually believed their own rules.

If you had been a multihunter, I'd have been a happy puppy

Don't get me wrong on my previous posts about the support planet rule since I actually agree with the reason it exists.
It was a midround change in r14 (if i remember correct) to do something about the shitloads of out of tag cath viper support planets eXi had.
They created an unfair advantage for eXi and made them almost unhittable with certain shiptypes.

There is however a huge difference between that and what I did...

Re: People leaving
 

Wowzers. Would be nice if people from multihunters involved could confirm vdm's story, and then resign.

In addition - I don't read the EULA before each round, didn't have a clue support planets are naughty again. Guess I'm pretty fortunate all my mates are in the same alliance now....... and God knows how I haven't been closed in previous rounds.

Re: People leaving
 

I sent out of tag defence at least 5 or 6 times this round. I can't remember when I tagged up exactly but my Fi/Co had been to quite a few incs prior to that. Guess I'm just lucky to still be open.

Re: People leaving
 

No good reading the EULA as it only states the following about support-planets:
IMO according to that I shouldn't be considered a support planet as I certainly wasn't dedicated to undertaking a specific and repeated action which resulted in an unfair benefit.


The only place you can find the definition of a support planet is here:
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=195254

Keep in mind that the thread itself is about a year and a half old, has as topic name: "Round 23 Multihunter Announcement." and in the time between r23 & r29 the support planet rule has been gone and brought back.

Bolded out the most important parts.

And remember kids:
- In an option between 2 choices, where 1 means you're innocent and the other means you're guilty, the guilty option will be chosen.
- % is a ****ed up way of calculating stuff in certain cases.
- 9 Deffleets made a major impact on this round, without them Denial would never be in the position it is right now.
- Whatever you do, never try to appeal your case. It is far more time consuming and annoying than PA should ever be.



And yes Achilles, you're lucky you're not closed cause you just admitted being a support planet before you tagged up!
(atleast in some people's mind:salute:)

Re: People leaving
 

Who writes the EULA? Someone should point out to him that 'planet/galaxy/alliance' would have sufficed, instead of trying to make it sound sophisticated.

I'm with you on this VdM! Let me know if you plan to go on strike and march to appoco's house in Kent demanding your £5 back. I've always wanted to be a vigilante for a good cause.

Re: People leaving
 

Not gonna go to Kent, I am however recruiting people for suicide bombings in The Netherlands, having seen a video of one of your previous visits I think you're the right man for the job!

Re: People leaving
 

For the first time ever i think i am actually finding myself agree with VDM.

Now point is i do know why they closed Willzzz. He was closed for sending a grand total of 4 defence fleets to the alliance while out of tag (baring in mind our tag wasnt full at this point and we were trying to hide our numbers which ALL alliances were doing at the beggining does this mean that they will close asc/denial/audentes planets which wasnt in tag during the hiding planets period? Like to see that) Anyway.. I also saw the logs. The MHs didnt even listen to his apeal or explain to him properly the reasons as to why he was closed other then ofc 'you were closed for been a support planet'

Now in my day you had a procedure for the MH department. Ie its either a warning first then a closure if the member doesnt respond or of course a direcnt closure if the case is deemed serious. For sending only around 4 fleets out to defend an alliance i wouldnt see that as a direct closure. Mistake number one, a warning yes a direct closure no. Now if ANYONE knows about the Support planet rule more then me please feel free to step forward as not only did i INVENT IT i of course had the privlage of policing it for many rounds before any of the current MH team members. So i know exactly what procedures should be followed. When a member comes to appeal regarding his/her closure you as a MH are therefore in charge of explaining to them ur evidence, and then of course the person closed gives you a responce as to why. This never took place. Other then to be told 'you wont be re-oppend' Where have the procedures gone? I never thought i would attack the PA Team/MH team but to be honest that was a disgrace what took place with Willzzz. You may call me biased as i thought highly of him but the fact still remains he wasnt given a fair trial here at all.


Usally if your not happy with the MH who closed/warned you you can therefore speak to the head of the MH department. (this would be Fiery as the MH manager) Willzzz was im afraid that offended of been branded a cheat and of course ashamed he didnt see the point. But i did.. and again was not quoted any facts of his closure. When i asked for the email/contact detail of the head of Omac (as u also have/used to be able to contact the head of the game if you still wasnt happy) I was told PA Team didnt have any. I mean seriously...


Anyway, PA Team and the admins want players to return to this game.. but at the same time are forcing people away that still currently play this game over some of the most stupid things i have ever witnessed. And amusingly coming from VDMs speech above, the MHs used a log off irc as evidence regarding a reese speech? MHs should know rule 1 is NEVER use a log as evidence as of course we all know how blatent they are for been faked. Just madness. I am not some bitter idiot coming on here to post i know EXACTLY how hard it is to be a MH and a member of the PA Team. But this is the worst communication/procedures i have ever witnessed and until this is fixed expect to see many players leave this game.

So to quote some of the rules which VDM posted in a post above:

- Defence support planets are those defending roughly more than the minimum of either 3 times per week or 25% of their defence fleets out of galaxy and alliance. ***

As he only sent out maybe a total of 4-5 fleets to the alliance all around this part of the rule amused me. And of course this part was never followed either:

If someone is breaking these rules then they will be closed unless the infraction is minor, in which case a warning will be issued.
If we find that the spirit of this rule is being violated, then we will warn the person or people involved and add the offense to this list.

The above is what i reffered to earlier regarding warnings.

Re: People leaving
 

What exactly happened was Fiery first telling me that support planets were a trend in Denial (something MH's shouldn't do imo, saying bad things about an alliance based on no substantial facts to a player that isn't part of any alliance / tag).

I pasted it to Reese, simply because I personally felt Fiery had insulted Denial and Denial HC should atleast know about it.

Reese ofcourse got a lil pissed off, and asked Fiery about this.
Appearantly that was all the proof needed to further incriminate me as a support planet:

Clearly a support planet ofc! There is no such thing as friendship on the internet with people you've known along time :rolleyes:


And then a bit later:
I believe Reese's word alot more than I believe Fiery's
20:29… 10 Rachael: i did no such thing
(It was real name day, guess you now all know her real name, let the stalking begin!)


And that's the real reason I won't play pa again as it has people in charge that make stuff up, are biased as can be, insult alliances without any substantial proof to back up those, ...


PS:
If for any reason you don't believe my logs, then don't.
You can always ask for the complete log
But if you really think I'd go through the effort of altering my logs just so I could prove my point then:
a) you don't know me
b) you are underestimating my lazyness ALOT

Re: People leaving
 

Looks like VdM's and Willzzz's closures are pretty retarded hunting.

I'm curious why the Support Planet rule reintroduced, I remember all the fuss and effort that went into getting it removed in the first place.

Re: People leaving
 

Bias is a flaw inherent in the human condition and not something that can simply be wished away in our policing systems, regardless of context. However in Planetarion it is taken to an extreme because the standard checks and balances demanded by any reasonable such system are not present. A long time ago quite a few of us tried to speak up about it* but in the end nothing changed.


* http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194908

Re: People leaving
 

the eleventh commandment
thou shalt not get caught

you both got caught you both got closed , next time you want to be a support planet come see me ill give you lessons on how to send 20 OOGOOT def fleets a week and not get caught

Re: People leaving
 

If more than 25% of your defence missions are oog then you're a support planet. Well know rule, people obey it. I'm guessing vdm did not and got caught.

Re: People leaving
 

I dont even want to think about all the oogooa def I ve gotten over the years.
Dont think any of them were closed, ever.

I honestly didnt even know this was now again not allowed.

WHY REINFORCE A RETARDED RULE?!

Was there like no reason why it was removed in the first place?

Let people play their OWN planet the way they fking want aslong as they dont farm/multi/share/bugabuse.

Theres a saying that is a law / rule makes most of the population ( read: community ) criminals( cheats), there is something wrong with the law / rule.

Also, for GODS sake MHS, use common sense!!!!!!!!!!

Re: People leaving
 

This is actually nothing new. its been going on for years and its just sad that they dont fix it. (kick you-know-who out of pa-team)

Re: People leaving
 

If you want to get rid of oogoot def you could hardcode the def-missions to only work in gal/tag. Dunno is it wise or does it pay of the effort.

Assassin wrote the things in good way and i think the same way he does even tho my output is not at his level. Oh, and MZ.. word 'angst' was best i could think fast and it wasn't right (read the previous line ;) ). Still no bad feelings nor anything personal against you <3 :)