America lurches to the Left
 

In perhaps the biggest moment of the Democratic Presidential Primaries, Al Gore is to endorse Howard Dean for the Democratic Nomation in what has been months of severe liberal backlash. As the nation lurches to the left in retaliation of Bush's failing war and hostile domestic policies (among them making gays 2nd class citizens). Howard Dean is one of the most liberal candidates since McGovern, but has gained massive support in the polarizing environment created by President Bush's ultra-conservative policies.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ean/index.html

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

depends on whether you look at it from canada or mexico i suppose...

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

The left feels more comfortable.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Not really. The split in the US was always 50/50 (see how close the last election was with gore winning the popular vote and all). However because of 9/11 and other various issues which inspired national solidarity there was a temporary unison on many political fronts and Bush's approval ratings went throught the roof. The split is now something like 50/50 again, basically a return to normality. Hardly anything symptomatic of a general drift.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

"President Bush, Left hand Right hand"

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I'd hardly call some nebulous hangups about Iraq a 'lurch to the left'. As for the gay's thing - that will only generally be felt by those already on the left, so it's pretty irrelevant.

I think Dean can be a viable candidate. He is not going to be a Walter Mondale. He has lots to recommend him; his Vermont Governership (If anything, this should give him plenty of understanding of the need to reach out beyond the left ffs.), his economic/financial background in Vermont (This will be especially useful.), and his general affability. If he takes on Wesley Clark as his running mate, then they should be in with a good line-up.

Let us not forget that much of the blame for Gore's defeat was that he was 'too bland.' Whether Dean might still be 'too left-wing' for the electorate remains to be seen, but I seriously doubt Bush is going to be set for any sort of landslide.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

i always thought there is no such thing as 'left' in the US.
anyway, as long as that 'left'-wing candidate doesnt win, i wouldnt say that the us is turning to the left.
for the democrats it doesnt make much sence to nominate someone too far left of the center. they need to votes of the people in the center of the political spectrum, those left of it will vote for them anyway.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

When you say "50/50" is that 50/50 of Americans in general, or 50/50 of those ones who vote?

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Does it even matter? It's pretty much wrong in any case.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Well, considering the people who vote tend to disproportionately present in some groups, so yeah it does. Saying 50% of Americans support X policy is a very different statement to 50% of Americans who vote support X policy.

But yes, it's wrong either way and "50/50 left-right" is probably meaningless anyway.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I've stood in deans governor office in Vermont

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Terrorist.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

out of a vague interest i checked where he was on the "US primaries" on political compass, he still seems about as right as blair

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Something like 80%+ US citzens favor an amendment to further define marriage in the constition to between man and wife. I doubt Bush's gay views are damageing.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

By the way, the former Democratic candidate who was not elected endorsing another Democratic candidate who represents similar views is hardly 'America Lurching to the Left'. In fact, it was an absolute guarentee that Gore would endorse somebody, and Leiberman is probably more to the left than Dean.

So in fact America did not lurch, or move, or even twitch at all really. If Dean is elected, which would be really nice by the way, THEN one could make a comment about the political climate of the US. But: "US Slightly-left-of-centre party stays slightly left of centre!!! No Change to Report at all!!!" is not really news.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Last I read Bush had 54% approval rateing. Wouldn't that make the US center slightly right?:

PS I just checked, its up to 56% now. I am betting its the goodness about the economy. Which was what the demcrates where hopeing to use as ammo but looks like they may be shit out of luck with jobless rate dropping and everything.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

A vote of approval != An election vote

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I would also say with this poll result

The democrates have a long battle ahead of them and the primary battles isn't going to help their image with so many of them running.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=732

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Really? I would say they are very releated. I don't think I haven't seen a poll yet that didn't use likely voters.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Slightly right of what? The other 46%?

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I think our current Dutch administration is doing a shoddy job, but I would still vote for one of the parties currently in it next elections.

People saying that Bush is doing a good job could still decide to vote for the Democratic Party coming elections. The fact that the poll was conducted among people who are likely to go out and vote in 2004, doesn't change that fact.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Don't they ask if they would vote for Bush in the next election and based on their answer that is how they measure the rating. Granted, the only the vote is really written in stone but a landslide poll almost gaurentess victory.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

50% of those surveyed in those gallup polls the americans are so fond of.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I believe the approval rating simply revolves around the question whether the president is doing a good job or not.
Even then, a 54% or 56% approval rating is hardly 'landslide'.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I didn't say that was a landslide, I just said a lanside victory in a poll would almost gaurentee a win. I never said I was talking about the results of a specific poll. Just the results of what a landslide poll would possiably show.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Yes, a 99% approval rating would likely lead to a re-election; someone that popular would be gaining a lot of votes. Of course, since we're talking a hypothetical situation, I'm going to assume that I'll be the first USA president to achieve that rating :cool:

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Why would you base a conclusion on the entire political culture of a country around a single opinion poll reading?

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Wow 1013 voters? 0.0003896% of the population! How useful.

I'd say its a dead certain result now!

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

(I'm assuming they had the sense to use a representative sample.)

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Firstly, the Republicans are not Centre Right, they are very Right (Nod, dont even bother, we all read the other thread about 'what is right and left')

Secondly, Bush's approval rating is irrelevant in this topic. The original discussion was not that Dean had become head of the country, nor even that he had become head of the party, just that a previous slightly-left-of-centre leader of the US's slightly-left-of-centre party endorsed the slightly-left-of-centre Howard Dean to be the next head of the slightly-left-of-centre party in the US.

America thus did not move at all, so it hardly lurched anywhere.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

It's interesting that Gore passed over Joe Lieberman, his running mate in 2000, to instead endorse Howard Dean. If you give Al enough chances, he's bound to get the right answer. :)

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

According to some, America is shifting to the liberal 'left' in a sense, (though not in the way you have outlined and 'left' is not how they would phrase it), as in 2000 much of the Gore vote was concentrated in areas with high concentrations of high-tech economic activity which are growing relatively fast in terms of size and signficance. Together with those sections of the white working class that have remained loyal to the Democrats and minorities, which are disproportionately Democratic, they may well constitute the basis for future electoral dominance, although this will not necessarily be evident in the short-term.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

I would imagine the fact that Lieberman didn't stand a chance in hell of being elected as The Democratic Nominee probably had something to do with it.

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

Yeah yeah

Its the GWB video of the night.

Hhehehehe
"licks theet"

Funny eh paul?


=(

Re: America lurches to the Left
 

saying that Dean is a lefty is a lot like saying "I don't know anything about Dean"

anyway, in 2000 Gore ran as a lefty and Bush ran as a centrist (uniter, not a divider etc) and Gore still took the plurality. This time Bush won't be able to claim that he is a centrist, and the Democrat will.
http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/image001.gif

I think it's pretty clear that anything saying 56% is an outlier.

This level of stupid should be a deletable offense.

Lieberman certainly wasn't happy.

But apparently Dean has been buddying up to Gore for the past year or so. And Dean has proven surprisingly adept at getting endorsements (surprisingly adept at absolutely everything really).