Round 61 BB stats
They will be up as soon as M0 is done with his
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Thanks for updating us. But after your propaganda (which was in bad taste) vs this past rounds stats I have no desire to look.
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As always, I am in favour of more people making stats. Personal feelings towards the authors are irrelevant.
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You are right tbh, naturally. I just dont like to see that sort of topic post on the forums
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You dont have to look. This thread was just made so people would hurry up making up their mind on M0s set, as they will not be up on the beta for much longer. And the discussion thread about R60 stats posround was just to warn of everyone ever using the stats again, and warning everyone of listening to Kaiba :salute: |
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Im going to repeat myself by saying that r60 stats were very good regardless of the whine. :P Just post the set you have done so far, you are wasting time by hiding it tbh.
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Its allready done, just gonna tweak some small bits |
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Mainly eff/res/armor/damage stuff
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There were at least 4 viable strategies, but he's just not acknowledging this as he's too short-sighted to do so. This also gives me very little hope for his stats, but we will wait and see |
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3 pod xan ... no no NO!
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Lets just look at last rounds set. Broadsword were too powerfull compared to other "heavy" ships, going a strat without having broadswords as a part of your ships choices meant that you would not be able to compete with other allies in terms of anti FR. Now if more race/attack class strats have these "special" ships, the chance that one strat would stand out from another cus of one single ship in the stats. More faking options for xans means that you will need more amps. To decrease the advantage of faking multiple classes ive made the xan pods silly expensive and made sure that the xan BS pod cant fake much targets looking at its init. |
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4 races with fr pods, not tired of fr after last round BB?
They are also at the moment the most obvious alliance strategy; not often you can get init advantage on everything through a team without having to rely on emp! |
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After looking at this set briefly, they seem quite attack based?
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But with so many small tags next round, perhaps a race strat based around CO would be good for them? And BS is quite powerfull too. ill quote from the last time these stats were being commented on. IsildurX: "I haven't even looked at the effs, but cath co would be popular with these stats." ------------------ Plaguuu: "You couldn't use ac dc more close to what we commonly have? Just looked at them briefly and spotted the terran beast called r4pecruiser which wars frde, team it up with scorpion for unstoppable force. Then I looked one further down and think would I even bother going offclass pods and getting a teamup when I can pwn everything with my dreaded dragonoughts. But there is only 4 races with Fr pods so doubt they will have any other uses than dominating attacks " ------------------ Kaiba: Random sh*t about Xan FI being too good |
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init advantage on everything if all 4 races are included is okey i suppose, it means that teaming up will pay off
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Other strats, im not sure, atleast not the FR choice? |
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I looked at the set before last round, really couldn't catch the idea behind them back then, after looking at them again, there's still no idea.
Few simple issues: - FR is too obvious choice, way too obvious. - CO is the second choice, just because it's easier and requires less leading (and/or own work). - CR outran by BS 2-4 and CR having no killships in attack fleets. - BS stopped by FRDE just because there will be a lot more of those again. (even if it most likely would start good). - FI... only xan and value spread to 3 ships, killed easily by the CO/FR/DE there will be plenty and most of them hitting FI T1. Otherwise, I like how you made ETD so tempting and are trying to promote faking with the pod amounts. And yes, 3 pod xan makes very little sense, especially when it adds 0 to the teamup and doesn't need the BS for def purposes either (waste of research to go hulls 3 with those stats). |
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Just a quick glance.
I do not understand why you'd give Xan (the most attack efficient race) 3 pod classes with their faking abilities. Gives any Xan player such a huge advantage... On top of this, you then choose to give Terran and Zikonian, the two notoriously high init races (and therefore, harder to land solo without losses) two pod classes. Reasons? |
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I think NoXiouS pointed it out why there is not such a big problem having 3 xan pods.
What he says its "pretty useless" is more or less correct |
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Also, after a second look, CO really doesn't make that much sense either, unless you really mass that and forget everything else (which may work for some tags). Edit: The Xan BS pods only promote escorts in this case (easiest to fake with) and simply the easiest to stay low on value too for the biggest XP gains. Therefore there is a problem, especially when there are battlegroups that will abuse it as much as they can (and most likely will be the only ones with those pods). |
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Comparing R60 stats vs my stats in the way its even possibole:
Terran: R60 Terran A/C/DC vs My AC/DC: 487 A/C average vs 489 A/C average 411 D/C average vs 449 D/C average ----- Xan: R60 Xan AC/DC vs My AC/DC 361 A/C average vs 370 A/C average 437 D/C average vs 444 D/C average ----- Cathaar EMP Effs(roiding class): Beetle Eff R60 vs my: T1 158%, T2 119% vs T1 157%, T2 134% ----- Viper Eff R60 vs my: T1 158% vs T1 169%, T2 128% ----- CR FR/DE shooter Eff R60 vs my: T1 156%, T2 117% vs T1 203% T2 154% ----- CR BS shooter Eff R60 vs my: T1 156% vs 181% ... Comments on this is welcome |
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First thought is "what the hell is BB smoking?"
I'll have a "proper" look at them in the morning and comment further. Also, x2 what mz said as usual. Thanks for at least putting something together BB. |
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Fi:5
Co:6 Fr:11 De:8 Cr:5 Bs:7 That is a HUGE disparity of ship in the universe. This is not counting Pods or sk's. If you don't think everyone is going to use Fr you are out of your mind, and as it was pointed out the Fr teamup is just about unstoppable so why wouldnt everyone just use Fr? Unless you actually take some of the fr out, or put in other ships from other classes that provide other options for dealing with Fr its going to be a Fr round. |
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I find it quite amusing that in their current setup, these stats are incredibly similar to last round's (with its flaws even exacerbated, imo), stats which were proclaimed as 'Worst Stats Ever' by BB.
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Better race spread, more avaible targets. Adding that up with the changes in ship cost, i think its balanced |
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The more i look at it Zik CR cant exist. It's out init by every Bs flee, and its even out Stolen by Cutters. Even if they have stupid high A/C D/C if they cant attack whats the point.
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http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=51
as reference. App/TGV was FR ODDR/Spore/MegaRock was CO FAnG CR/BS CT had DE + some other mixes |
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The worst stats ever
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Ok, I've looked in more depth.
With ETD, Ter and Xan sharing at least two pod classes (Zik also having fr) and Cat/Zik not really having many options but Co (which Zik dont even start with pods for), these stats are really not what I expect. Surely, you want to be able to have different attack options for each of the six roiding pod classes, not just have everyone mass one or two? Not where, the majority of races match thus leaving two races completely pointless. As I see it, there is zero point playing as cat or zik with these stats. EMP on it's own is useless. I literally cant see where you went with these. Must have been a good time though. |
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And read the entire post on how i "remeber" the alliances strats being? How can it be there is like almost 20/50 top50 planets being cath then? |
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Ofc these stats has been modified from the ones in R51.
No same-class targetting, and removing the CR pod from Ter, but i dont think that will play out much diffrent. |
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Haven't looked at these in-depth yet, but basing your stats on those of r51 is probably a bad idea. They were far too defensive.
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The problem is the it is too easy to just spam Fr for all defense and cover 5 of the 6 meta classes. Which is fine because ultimately one class wont be played because the stats maker makes it trash. This round it will Cr, the lack of any strong addition from Zik cr means that you can only really play Cat Cr at which point you can already solo vs just about anyone by the nature of being CATH. Find me a round where Cat cant Solo into 4 or 5 races with all of its attack options.
With all the concentration into Fr all attack options will revolve around Fr and since there is no real way to "stop" Fr it will ultimately be the most picked attack fleet. At least last round Broadswords could be used to stop fr waves later in the round where as in these stats you wont be able to do much at all. |
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Ter/Zik FR team up stopped by xan FI Ter/Zik/ETD FR team up stopped by xan FI Xan/Etd FR team up stopped by Zik CO Xan/Etd/Zik Team up stopped by Zik CO Xan/Ter team up stopped by Ter BS Xan/Ter/Etd team up stopped by NULL(EMP) ---- So if say i modified Clipper to be init 8 FR killer, moved Cutter T2 to Bucc T2, Edited drake to init 9, Xan/Ter/Etd team up will be stopped by Clipper And Xan/Ter/Etd/Zik team up stopped by NULL(EMP)? Would this balance this out in your mind? |
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And i dont want broadswords type of ships, they were too good last round.
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The Terr would no longer be serving a useful function since its only the first of the FR to fire against CO, which is worthless since all the relevant CO is either EMP or sleals. |
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The FR killer just has to belong to a race that hasnt got an FR pod and the effect would be rather different to last rounds' broadsword imo (plus dont cloak it!). |
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Zero loss ships, even if not cloacked, its realy screwing things over if they are allready in a "popular" race |
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Yes, the problem with broads was that they were too good, a ship that can solocover a teamup while being significantly lower value is just too good. No matter if it's in some other race or even not cloaked (you can easily fake 10k visible ships too). Same for any other uberkiller, such as rogue (rather an equal problem to BS as broads were for FR).
Atm you need a 3 man teamup for FR teams to land "free", make it require the fourth race and it's no longer an attack option at all, especially as it already is coverable with reasonable amounts of ships. Cath CO/CR (thanks to stupidly high effs again) can in some extent roid solo, and then there are several teamup options for the CO later (zik with stolen pods, ETD), that are decently strong, especially if the uni goes FR heavy (leaving the DE that's the de facto anti-CO to lower amounts). Adding a FR killer to a race without FR means that'd be Cath too or god forbid Zik, both of which are already quite strong. Changing the Man O war to kill made a big difference to CR, even if it is lower init, so Zik now has 4 decent roiding (teamup) options too (yes, some steals required). Ter having both CR and BS that shoots FRDE can be a problem... especially when the War Cruiser gets stolen so nicely in to both Cath/Zik CR fleets. IMO changing the set too much at this point would only make it worse, it's not perfect, but it really can't be "perfected" without a massive overhaul (pretty much starting over). M0s set isn't perfect either. |
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Curious, how was the Broadsword any different from the Tzen in these stats?
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Tzen fire FI, and Broads fired FR |
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Zero loss is when a ship shoots but doesnt get hit in return. Im sure I do not need to remind people that the existence of the broad did nothing to stop FR totally dominating last round. A simple suggestion to reduce FR would be to simply remove the Astropod. FR would need to steal their FR pods (and with both Mara and Smuggler providing opportunities this would not be to difficult if players were determined). The result would however, be a reduction of the number of Ghosts available for teamups, making FR overall somewhat more vulnerable to capital ships without actually nerfing anything. |
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