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-   -   Bring back PDS (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201626)

theodb 6 Apr 2018 15:14

Bring back PDS
 
I've spoken with a lot of people and they feel the same way. Would be a positive change for the game going forward.

Bring back PDS.

Thoughts?

BloodyButcher 6 Apr 2018 16:56

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Instead of bringing up the suggestion, i would recommend you to start putting together a ship stats set that include PDS.
Easiest way would be to copy one of the most recent ones http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=74 and then add PDS to it.

Its a valid idea in itself, but unless you know how to balance a set that includes PDS i dont see why you want it

TheoDD 7 Apr 2018 02:22

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Meh.

You spoken what about it? -That you want it back...?
Why on earth is this a good idea?
How are we gonna build them? -Construction units? Resources?
Will they have their own class or will they be spread out in existing classes?
Will they have uber init? uber armor? uber attack?

Here is what annoys me the most on the subject. All resources put into this is basicly just a stationary fleet. Unable to move and waste of resources.

Find ways to avoid this block festive crap instead.
Lower the tag limits already and stop with the constant defensive shitty stats.

Just sad to see where we are 8 years later.

theodb 7 Apr 2018 02:46

Re: Bring back PDS
 
After 10 years of people assuming I am you, I simply can't rationally read your arguments.

BloodyButcher 7 Apr 2018 03:21

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Having stationary value could be interesting, but as TheoDD pointed out the class/strength is what i would worry about.

If you want to spend value on stationary guns instead of ships, they must be favourable to ships in some way or another.
Make them too good and you could have another "Roman Fortress" round where certain planets is unlandable.
They were removed for a reason years ago, and the arguments back then might be even more valid today, as the universe is smaller and the ratio of super active/organized planets is much much higher now.

Mzyxptlk 7 Apr 2018 09:58

Re: Bring back PDS
 
PDS is terrible.

Ave 8 Apr 2018 15:15

Re: Bring back PDS
 
PDS is ok if u have a carrier to move them. Also they could get trapped if the carriers die. :) Basically just more options to stats and one strategical dimension.

But a lot of work compared to just adding another shiptype for example.

Mzyxptlk 8 Apr 2018 15:47

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Either it's overpowered enough to force everyone into building it, turning PA into Simtarion. I want to make this clear: I'm not exaggerating for effect, I mean it would turn PA into literally Simtarion. It'd make planets practically impossible to roid, and we'll all sit here and init for 800 ticks, then build ships until the round ends.

Or it isn't overpowered, ensuring no one sane builds it, because they're essentially ships that cannot be launched, cannot cap roids and cannot defend allies. Unless it is overpowered, no experienced player will build it, reducing it to a newbie trap.

If you do want be able to launch it, we already have that: ships.

booji 8 Apr 2018 17:37

Re: Bring back PDS
 
The only pds suggestion I have ever thought vaguely sensible is to have them as constructions, and would really only be nuisance value. Prevent fakes etc. That would however have quite an impact on the xan playstyle. It would also mean that SKs would have to be allowed at all times again rather than just at war. The ideal would be if PDS specifically targeted SKs (possibly and pods) and replaced Structure Defense but looking at the old thread about it that would apparently be difficult.

Generally speaking unless someone comes up with a way to make PDS survivable and not very powerful I cant see this flying.

sevenseas 8 Apr 2018 21:13

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Im not to fan of pds even, but if and its a big if and pds it has to be emp types only so it wont make it unlandable.

Everyone can choose 1 pds way to go and only one.

1. pds targets fi/co
2. pds targets de/fr
3. pds targets cr/bs

u can only research one (the area your class sucks most on)? or the anti pds the ally you gonna fight against ?

The one pds u choose can only emp.

Blue_Esper 9 Apr 2018 02:54

Re: Bring back PDS
 
I think we are getting caught up with how PDS used to be. PDS doesn't even have to participate in actual battle, it doesn't need to be a weapon it is after all Planetary Defence System.

My idea is to have PDS replace structure defence.
there are two functions of PDS one is protection for structures the other is a protection of roids

so as an example:
1 PDS reduces roid cap by .1% and protects 3 constructions.

you could cap the amount of PDS to 100 giving you 300 protected constructions and a 10% reduction of roid cap this will hopefully encourage more SK'ing as i would like to see it not be exclusive to war

I would have liked to see a return to how PDS used to be, but unfortunately i dont see that happening :(

BloodyButcher 9 Apr 2018 03:21

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Im pretty sure the reason behind the thread is nostalgia, and not how "PDS" could be reinveted.

Sevenseas suggestion is close to what i was to suggest.

Laser turret - T1: * - init x+1(after all ships except stealers) - cost only metal
EMP turret - T1: * - init y+1(after all EMP ships) - cost only crystal
Stealer turret - T1: * - init z+1(after all ships except pods/sk) - cost only eonium

Instead of trading to make up for uneven M/C/E people might want to spend it on stationary value even though it might be worse than ships in some(most) situations.

Demort 9 Apr 2018 08:54

Re: Bring back PDS
 
PDS should fire after EMP and long range artillery ships

Should be a cap on how much PDS allowed so i liked idea of Sevenseas ill explain why the main argument thats happened in stats channel is people feel defence ships should fire after offensive mainly so that means making super PDS is kinda against what most the public have asked for in the Stats channel

Kaiba 10 Apr 2018 06:34

Re: Bring back PDS
 
I think at the end of the day does it add anything actually viable to the game? Are sks a genuine problem nowadays? No. Are xan fakes a problem? Not if you leave a little home. Does SD do the job with the sk threat? Yes.

Can't see a reason to bring them back.

The idea of a new ability is more interesting. But what? Kill/emp/steal/cloak covers most bases. Anyone have any ideas?


Also these 4 on 4 block wars are great at showing butchers idea of increasing tag limits is stupid. Time to reduce I think. Or count all to tag at least

Makhil 10 Apr 2018 13:16

Re: Bring back PDS
 
PDS shooting tractor beams that would delay the return of attacking fleets. Allowing more def fleets to fight the next tick(s)...

BloodyButcher 11 Apr 2018 04:53

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3261687)
I think at the end of the day does it add anything actually viable to the game? Are sks a genuine problem nowadays? No. Are xan fakes a problem? Not if you leave a little home. Does SD do the job with the sk threat? Yes.

Can't see a reason to bring them back.

The idea of a new ability is more interesting. But what? Kill/emp/steal/cloak covers most bases. Anyone have any ideas?

Trying to re-invet/adding new abilities is unlikely to happend, lets be real.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3261687)
Also these 4 on 4 block wars are great at showing butchers idea of increasing tag limits is stupid. Time to reduce I think. Or count all to tag at least

"4 on 4 block wars" was one of the argument of bigger tags :salute:

TheoDD 11 Apr 2018 08:01

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyButcher (Post 3261689)
Trying to re-invet/adding new abilities is unlikely to happend, lets be real.




"4 on 4 block wars" was one of the argument of bigger tags :salute:

Your hilarious logic was one of the arguements for bigger tags, NOTHING but that.
I can give several more pointers to why 4v4 is an arguement for SMALLER tags.
Stop being an idiot.

Mzyxptlk 11 Apr 2018 08:11

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Why does every goddamn thread have to have some ****ing peabrain in it who brings up tag limits?

Blue_Esper 11 Apr 2018 11:00

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3261687)
I think at the end of the day does it add anything actually viable to the game? Are sks a genuine problem nowadays? No. Are xan fakes a problem? Not if you leave a little home. Does SD do the job with the sk threat? Yes.

Can't see a reason to bring them back.

The idea of a new ability is more interesting. But what? Kill/emp/steal/cloak covers most bases. Anyone have any ideas?


Also these 4 on 4 block wars are great at showing butchers idea of increasing tag limits is stupid. Time to reduce I think. Or count all to tag at least

what about a race that converts attack damage into salvage or gets attacking salvage instead of defending salvage

Cochese 13 Apr 2018 03:02

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Putting value into something (PDS) that only benefits you is pretty silly.

Less resources into ships to attack (teamup) and defend your galaxy/alliance.

Sure it might plug a hole in your fleet, but would it really help? On paper, yes. In practice, no. The hole you need to plug is typically something off-class or would otherwise remove ships from your main attack fleet, which means they're never home anyways. So galaxy/ally would still have to send def against a roid fleet that you had "on paper" covered by getting PDS...while your fleet is out attacking (lets be honest here, folks).

SK's were a fun idea, but a fair few people complained after it was "abused" (I'm guilty, you whiners) and now is basically worthless. Should they be removed? Maybe. Should SD be removed? Maybe, maybe not. The EVE player in me likes seeing things die in fire. Sucks on the other end of the brep, but such is life.


Resource stealers are interesting, but it's also "war only" so meh. Pretty easy to hide resources even for one tick, even if you lose a little by having to cancel an order after one tick.

Not sure what it adds, practically, to the gameplay.

In the "old days" the funny PDS was scanning roids when you had heavy incs (lol waves) so the attackers got un-initiated roids, and usually a fk-ton of them if done right. So you scored 500 roids, a small percent were useful, the rest required resources to be "initiated" and you basically just wasted your time,,,also while making yourself look "roid fat" to the average browser of rankings.

Missed r2 with "holo-roids" but it was basically the same thing, you stole "fake" roids.

I'd look at something like that WAY before PDS suggestions. If SK's and RS are a "trolling" option and rarely used or otherwise side-stepped, whats the point?

Same with PDS.

zebra 13 Apr 2018 04:04

Re: Bring back PDS
 
I've exhaustively ran calcs on my private server and figured out the best implementation of PDS is to increase tag limit by 1 planet for every 1% of a tag's value in PDS.

TheoDD 13 Apr 2018 09:19

Re: Bring back PDS
 
What use did those PDS have? You should run a diagnostic on your head, if you've really used time on whatever that may be.
To me your comment makes slim sense.

Ave 14 Apr 2018 04:04

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Maybe pds could be a rare target by the ships and only tag free players could build it. The pds converts back in to money (like 70%) if u join a tag. Am thinking to kill abuse so it wont be used for early protection by actual alliance players.

Some protection to people who wants to play solo. Another question is then, if we want to courage such.

Kaiba 16 Apr 2018 13:29

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Esper (Post 3261692)
what about a race that converts attack damage into salvage or gets attacking salvage instead of defending salvage

I was thinking of a concept from another game I played (***********) which had salvage ships that you had to produce that gathered you salvage attacking or defensively. They didn't take part in battle or were targetted after everything else maybe. Would be a way to reintroduce attacking salvage

ArcChas 16 Apr 2018 13:50

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Attacking salvage was removed to try to prevent abuse. Why would we want to reintroduce it?

Kaiba 16 Apr 2018 17:09

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcChas (Post 3261703)
Attacking salvage was removed to try to prevent abuse. Why would we want to reintroduce it?

Because if it's not 'as standard' and you have to invest resources into getting it then it makes it less abusable imp

BloodyButcher 16 Apr 2018 17:17

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Everything can be abused, dont think this argument should dictate how the game can be played.

Offensive salvage might encourage "griefers" like Cochese to return and only focus on ruining for people ;)

Mzyxptlk 17 Apr 2018 15:13

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcChas (Post 3261703)
Attacking salvage was removed to try to prevent abuse. Why would we want to reintroduce it?

When? I don't recall it ever being part of PA.

ArcChas 17 Apr 2018 23:29

Re: Bring back PDS
 
I couldn't find anything definitive. only a vague memory (which gets even more vague as time passes) but I know that salvage was introduced for defenders in R4 and the following post suggests that it had been changed to include attackers but reverted to defenders only around Round 6 (November 2002 was towards the end of Round 8).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy (Post 2213329)
been that way for at least 2 rounds now.....

(unless you mean that he defended too and didn't get any ,attackers haven't had salvage for 2-3 round iirc)


Kaiba 18 Apr 2018 11:20

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk (Post 3261706)
When? I don't recall it ever being part of PA.

Wasn't it stealers not dying which allowed the gains or positive salvage caps?

BloodyButcher 18 Apr 2018 11:48

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3261709)
Wasn't it stealers not dying which allowed the gains or positive salvage caps?

Stealers was re-introduced R6.

Ave 19 Apr 2018 21:39

Re: Bring back PDS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcChas (Post 3261703)
Attacking salvage was removed to try to prevent abuse. Why would we want to reintroduce it?

Simply to get more battle reports and to effort silly defences to get kills.


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