A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Say for example i was advertising to go and fix a product. for example a hoover or somesuch.


I go along.

I fix it
I get paid

Then 2 weeks later the phone rings and the hoover (or whatever product) is broken again caused by the person most probably but they are saying that the work i did didnt fix it properly. Its my word against theirs concerning whether they broke it again etc.


What kind of legal issues does this cause? should I have had some kind of little contract thing saying 'this is fixed right now so sign here that you accept it and promise to pay'?

Im curious because if someone wants to fix my pc / tv / car / hoover / any product you can think off)and then i break it again surely i can just say 'but you didnt fix it' and they have to come back out and fix it for free???

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

im assuming that if it happened some time later you can't blame it on the help.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

I imagined these things come with some sort of clause so if the same thing breaks within x amount of time it is your fault. Otherwise go over and bludgeon them to death with their hoover.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

it comes under warranty, i assume that as a private individual you do not offer warranties on the work you have done, therefore they have no recourse to get anything done about it.
If you did offer a warranty on the work done, they would still have to prove that it was your work that was faulty - although in most cases you would find the tradesman willing to come out and have a look and if it was their work fix it again but if it was a seperate fault, or was caused by misuse of the item in question, then they could legitimately charge for any work done, as it wouldn't be covered by the warranty given.

Also, why ask for a legal opinion on this, i cant imagine why a barrister would know anything about this as they would never cover it - at worst it would go to small claims court

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

While it varies from place to place and such, I remember that when the CD-drive in my first computer broke near the end of the warranty, the new drive came with a 3 month warranty (It's still working now, some 7 or 8 years later).

How this would be arranged though, no idea...

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

But how 'water tight' is such a contract saying

'By signing this agreement you agree that the work carried out on the xxx date of the xxx month by xxxxxxxxx is of satifsactory quality and has fixed the xxxxxxxxx problem pertaining to your xxxxxxxxxxxx. Furthermore any future issues relating to the xxxxxx product are not the responsibility or liability of JammyJims ace hooverrepair company and as such no claim can be made against the company. Furthermore any additional work will be charged at standard rate including any re-repair of the same problem/fault'



sign here
___________________




plus would anyone even sign that kind of thing?


im curious because i was thinking about how some of these companies survive without being sued into oblivion by customers who scream blue murder that the product isnt fixed properly even tho its been a week since someone came round to fix it or just several hours but the customer has infact placed TNT within the product, blown it up and then said 'but you didnt fix it properly...look at the parts scattered around my living room'

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

If it was supposed to be held up in a court of law it would probably need the contract and the contract being signed and dated at the bottom, as well as the specified date in the main body text.

However, there would need to be substantial proof which points the finger at you for the repair leading to the eventual demise of the item

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

hmmmm... not really sure what you mean but i will give it a go.
You will tend to find that most *decent* companies will have you sign something to say that the work has been done... and that if you read the fine print on said document it will have some kind of warranty clause etc... The only problem lies in companies which do not use paperwork and i wouldn't trust most of them anyway.

point in case:
I just bought a house, in this house there turned out to be serious problems with the gas supplying one of the fires, and the boiler. I got a local gas man out to deal with the fire, who said to me "i refuse to give a warranty for this work, as whoever installed the fire was not qualified to do so" thereby letting me know that if anything else happened to it, i would be paying again for him to come out and work on it. However, prior to seeing the fire, when i first comtacted him, he explained that if i had a problem with any of his work, if i contacted him he would be perfectly willing to come out and review it. Notice at this point: i would not hire anyone to do any work for me unless they said something along these lines, there are too many cowboys about who will dissapear with your money without doing a satisfactory standard of work.
My boiler on the other hand, he didn't even want to do any of the work on, as if i got him to do the work we would have to wait for parts and he would have to charge me rather a lot as there was a lot of work to be done to the boiler. Instead, he told me to contact the makers of the boiler (in this case, baxi) and get them to come out and see it.
When i contacted them, they explained their terms and conditions over the phone, (the phone call was recorded) so that if i did complain about the work, they would have everything documented.

um... i hope that that answers your question, basically: if the person you contact does not try and guarentee their work in some way, ALWAYS ASK. And if they still do nothing, do not offer them the work and go somewhere else to get the work done.

Getting your money back for shoddy work is bloody difficult, and nearly always involves the hasslt of small claims court and a lot of effort on your part: and even then, if the trader is disreputable enough, they will simply fold their company and re open under a new name (worryingly easy to do and probably cheaper than giving you your money back)

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Yes, because alot of people don't read standard contracts.

Basically the idea of that contract is to remove any right of the person signing it to sue the company for the work as they've accepted that it was done properly, and that any future problems would be their tough shit.

The reason they don't get sued is because they usually submit to the customer's will as if they didn't it would look bad for business if they refused to redo the work on a blanket basis. The only time they'd usually refuse to fix it again without charging you is if it's obvious that you vandalised it.

Obviously terms like this excluding liability occur, but it really depends on the relationship between the two parties to the contract as to whether such a term as you described above stands up. Where one party is a business and the other is a "consumer", they get more protection from terms excluding liability for doing shit work as such terms have to be 'reasonable'. Which usually means companies save themselves the fuss and go out and fix it again where they were dealing with joe consumer.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Computers were the specific industry i was thinking of actually.

If Person A goes out to fix Persons B computer because B is a total neandothol and hasnt got a clue about computers.


Person A removes spyware for example and cleans up some viruses.
Person B pays for service

3 days later popups reappear so Person B calls person A and says 'you didnt fix it'. Person A asks questions like 'did you install givemelotsofpopups inc software'
person b says 'of course i did im stupid'

person a says 'ah ok well ic an refix but it will cost you'
person b says 'i already paid. its not fixed. fix it now'

etc

or any computer related issue. Its like taking the PC into PC world or whatnot. What if the user has the same or simliar problem in the near future. Its almost impossible to prove the customer caused the problem again etc.

SO what im asking is whether some kind of 'This is fixed at time of me handing over the computer to Person B. Person B agrees that the work was carried out successfully etc and any future issues are not liable to be fixed by Person A. etc"

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Whenever anyone does work here (the council), they give us a sheet to sign to say the problem is fixed etc. Thus if we go back to them they can say 'well you signed to say we'd fixed it'.

Repeat with customers. Problem solved.

edit : also, wtf. The number of times I've seen you on irc whinging cos you broke a computer not knowing what the **** you are doing and now you want to fix them for other people ? someone save us.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

easy answer, you get them to sign to say the work has been done

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

i didnt say i wanted to fix other peoples

plus i do know what im doing. ive fixed my pc and other peoples numerous times. when i talk about it on irc its because the pc is being a total cock and not playing nicely so i need some help or advice.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

I remain unconvinced that you have sufficient experience for the job.

When people want to pay to have their computer fixed its going to be because it isnt working full stop (because why pay money otherwise), and these are the occasions on which you've (imo) failed to know what to do. There's no such thing as 'the pc being a total cock'. The pc has no personality. What you mean is 'you don't know what to do', and that's something you gain from experience.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

I wasnt trying to convince you and what job?

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

good question. I have often wondered about this, since there seems to be very little recourse against cowboy builders and so on, but can bastard customers be just as bad?

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

I used to work for a PC Warranty company which used to deal with situations like this. The key wasn't some sort of boiler plate legalese, but simply applying a rule of common sense/reasonableness.

So if an engineer attended and replaced a motherboard, and the PSU blew the next week, it could well be because of our job. So covered. But if the mouse button brokes, or the monitor's power failed it wouldn't be covered. The actual component we installed obviously had some sort of warranty on it.

But with regards things like spyware it's a lot more unclear. Someone could completely change every single file on a HDD ten times in a couple of days, and therefore problems could reoccur far more often than a physical fault. However, the same sort of estimation would seem to apply. If you were really arsey you could do some sort of screen shots / directory listings / registry backups or something like that.

However I wonder what the point of the question is though. If you need to resort to "cleverness" to try and avoid fixing customers problems then you're probably not doing very well anyway. My rule of thumb when helping people with their PC's that if the problem reoccurs in 90 days (irrespective of who's to "blame") I'll fix for gratis. Most people end up paying anyway but it's nice to give them an option.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Surely not ...

THE PRICE OF REPLACING ALL THE PERSONALISED COMPANY STATIONARY ALONE WOULD BE EXTORTIONATE!!!

I don't think you thought that one through properly now did you roady?!

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

:mad:

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

I (or my company) give them eight days to test and complain. After that they are onb their own.

I remember one customer I had to let go because he thought that after three months he still was entitled to guarantees on removal of a bad virus infection.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

This better not be some faggot induced objection to the use of the term 'engineer'. Because if it is, I'll beat you up after school.

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

yet it does happen... and on a regular basis... how do you like them apples dacey-boy

Re: A Legal Question - DDA/Yahwe etc
 

Since you decided to ask dda first, I'll let him answer first.

(how long has it been since you did any contract law old man??)