Tuition Fees
I’m currently doing an essay for collage on the whether or not i agree with the current University Tuition fees system and i was wondering what all your views on the subject are? Should education be free? Should those than can afford pay? or should we all pay?
Just after some different views |
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Education should be accesable for everybody up to a certain point.
Everybody should get upto his masters degree, after that he can earn it for himself. Let's put it differently, I think everybody has the right to get to primary school, highschool/college/lyceum/grammar school and then to or a craftsschool, or a bachelors degree or a mastersdegree. But not a craftsschool, then a bachelors degree and then a mastersdegree (in other words, making a school career, I think that if you wanted to do that you should've started with university right away....) |
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Yeah, up to their BA, based on ability to a large degree. Not everyone can bum around in uni and come out with some sort of stupid degree though; theres a base level of smart needed to pull off that trick
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The way it works in England is that students are charged annual tuition fees. The trick is though that they only pay these tuition fees back when they are earning over a certain amount of money. They also only pay back a certain percentage of their salary (for me it's 9%, I graduated a fair few years ago though and I don't know what current graduates are paying). This system is perfectly fine with me seeing as people only pay as and when they can afford it. It's a better system than paying for it out of general taxation seeing as those people who get the benefit of higher education are the ones paying for it. I think people from poor backgrounds are exempt from paying these tuition fees. This is moronic seeing as they would only have paid back the fees when they could afford to anyway. How much your parents earn shouldn't have any bearing on this. |
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I have had people telling me that i should not go to uni as i wont be able to afford it, screw them tbh, im determinded to go! ill never forget the day somone told me "if they dont have a degree we put the application in the bin!" |
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I believe we've covered this before but I don't think higher education needs to be free or even subsidized. In the US, each year of post-secondary education adds, on average, about $225K to your expected lifetime earnings*. Given that, higher education is a good investment even if you have to borrow money to pay for it. If you can work your way through college or qualify for a scholarship then of course it's an even better investment.
The effect of tuition subsidies is to increase demand for education which drives tuition fees up higher. *By way of comparison, the cost of tuition plus room and board at a 4-year state university in the US averages $8600/year. All statistics as of 2002. |
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people should have to pay the full fees for university rather than the heavily subsidised ones people pay in the uk, otherwise you end up with eevryone having a degree and it becoming totally worthless like it is now
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God forbid the education level of society should be raised. How awful would that be? :rolleyes:
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I want things and other people should pay for them, here is my list of demands;
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I pay large amounts of taxes so that Nodrog can spend his entire life in heavily subsidised education and tell me how stupid I am for being happy to pay taxes to subsidise his education.
Neither of these facts troubles me; however I am conscious of the danger of ever accidentally being led to belive that he's a rational human being. Fortunately such circumstances have not arisen. |
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I didn't have to pay any fees and I got a £1500 a year grant from the Welsh assembly. I did have to take out the maximum student loan in order to survive which I now pay back at 9% on everything over £15000. I got a brilliant deal for university, any arguments about fees as they are now putting off poorer students are rubbish, it's the middle class that the fees really hurt. I had to pay for my masters though but again that was worth it.
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Apart from anything else, it makes the idea of a university education out to be something you just do in order to get a job. This ignores the fact that a) most people dont directly use their degree in whatever it is they do afterwards, and b) universities used to be considered institutes of learning rather than something to put on a bullet point in your CV. |
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1) Employers don't differentiate between real courses and mickey mouse courses. I heard on the radio recently that of the top 5 courses studied at University only 1 of them was a "traditional" (ie not mickey mouse) course, this one being English. More often than not a graduate employer will ask that the applicant has a 2:1 grade, regardless of what course they studied. 2) Employers don't particularly care what University you went to. They'll pay attention if you say you went to Oxford or Cambridge but everywhere else is all the same to them. The government can do a lot to tackle these problems. For example they can go back to the polytechnic system. Back in the old days we had Universities and polytechnics, either one gave you a degree but a degree from a University was worth more. Then in 1995 (or thereabouts) all polytechnics magically became Universites. The quality of the teaching didn't get any better, it was just decided that this would be done. If we cut back on institutions that call themselves Universities (by renaming the crap ones as something else) and we reduce the number of people doing mickey mouse courses then degrees will suddenly become worth something again. Also, forcing people to pay full tuition fees is fair enough but the devil is in the detail. If you force people to pay this up front then sure, you're going to get fewer people going to University but all you're getting is the richest kids going, not the smartest. If on the other hand you're going to have a low interest loan which is paid back through means testing (what we currently have) then the deterrent for poor people will be less. Some people will see the huge debt that they will have once they've graduated and decide not to bother with it but that's not necessarily a bad thing. |
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If someone studies English for example, then you could say that the only use they could have for it is becoming an English teacher or lecturer. I don't think so though. A degree that taxes your brain shows that you have some aptitude for learning and (more importantly) that you have the motivation and persistence to complete a 3 year degree. These skills can be used in many different fields, not just one that involves analysing Shakespeare. |
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The problem occurs if you have a 2:2 from a good university in a hard subject, then you're pretty much screwed since they won't even look at you, case in point there's a girl who's stuck in reception at my work with a 2:2 in Maths from UCL. If you come out with a 1st or 2:1 from a good university in a strong subject then you're going to be worth far more than someone from a poor university, recruiters get paid a load of money to be able to differentiate these things plus after the 17 rounds of interviews and assessments you have to go through any weak candidates are filtered out. |
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At the moment I'm getting away with saying that I expect a 2:1. But I'm in severe danger of getting a 2:2 (I'm borderline and finding this year hard). I'm at Cardiff Uni (a typical good university) doing Law (bloody difficult), and I'm scared shitless that if I don't have a job lined up for when I graduate then I'll struggle to get one at all. :( |
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Anyway, it probably held me back and meant I entered the job market at the very low end instead of the graduate end, but if you're capable it eventually shows even if you're working on a reception and you can drift upwards overtime. It just means it takes a lot longer to get there. To be quite honest, beyond entry level positions, degrees should barely matter. If someone is being interviewed for a Director position somewhere and they are 35-40 years old, if the recruitment panel is seriously still looking at their degree and not their track-record then I'd be very worried if I was an investor in that company (unless it was a "everything else is equal" sort of thing). Quote:
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In South Africa, the situation seems to be for a lot of people (who don't qualify for government assistance) that if their parents aren't owner occupiers (and thus can sign as guarantors) they can't get student loans and thus attend Uni. That seems slightly unfair to say the least. (Also, I'd tend to agree with Nod, that the "added value of degree" stats are very dodgy. If you completely abolished university globally then the top 5% of high school graduates would probably still end up roughly in the top 5% of jobs although obviously productivity generally would suffer) |
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free up to the age of 18
free if you complete the course free if you dont complete the course due to extreme circumstances ( eg: debilitating illness, or accident) dont complete, flunk out... whatever... all costs to go to the student. basically, same system as we have now, but you end up with a credit on your account making it 0 if you complete the course ( note i dont say pass the course ) |
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Maybe some work/study program could be set up, but I do not think those should get the same ammount of money compared to someone who went 'straight' to university. Talent and hard work should be rewarded. |
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hey I heard that the people who are in the higher income bands generally went to university. Do you think that they might be paying more in taxes (over their lifetimes) than they cost the state in education?
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I am a filthy capitalist.
Even I understand that you spend money to make money. |
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